Saxo VTS turbo conversion? - Saxperience

Bim · 22nd August 2012, 20:39

Hi.

I searched and read some threads about turbo conversion, found more on 8v than 16v.

when i got my car thru im thinking of doin an low budget turbo conversion.
if the vts have 118hp, i would like to see 160+ on low boost. Possible?

Im curious about exhaust manifolds, i know dp, cituning, gmc, spoox etc sells them, but im not Into payin 300-900£ for just a mani.

Read something about some tu Engine with short mani, those with an Cat thats right behind the radiator, anyone used those?

The ic pipes Will i prolly weld from ordinary exhaust pipes.
The exhaust is no problem welding that iether.

and im thinking of startin with oem ecu and extra injectors.

and the headgasket is going to be changed leaking around it, and prolly need skim tit straight. Read some about decompression Plate, whats that? And why dont use thicker headgaskets?

Typin from mobilephone, and from Sweden so, English is not the best. /Robin

AXracing · 22nd August 2012, 22:34

Yes the power you are looking at is easy to get from a VTS.

The VTS is not easy to make your own manifold as with the 8V. But many people have done it. Most just use the Saxo manifold then cut it down and weld on there required mounting. Its a little harder then it sounds as its cast iron and this is not easily welded. My advice would be spend that 300 and get a ready made manifold.

The later TU like that in the 206 and the C2 have the manifold you talk about. You should be able to make one from that by just knocking up an adapter though I have not seen it done.

If your using the OEM ECU you will have to get it mapped or you will have to use a piggyback ECU to dive the extra injectors. Most people just used one extra injector in the old days with a MF2 as the ECU to drive it.

Unless you run really low boost you will also have to lower the engine compression. cheap option is just two head gaskets and works very well on low boost.

I see you dont live very far from Stockholm. I may have to come have a look at your project next time I'm there.

Good luck

Edit: forgot to say that even at 160 odd bhp you really would still want a uprated clutch.

blackie_2k5 · 22nd August 2012, 22:37

can use the jp4 ex mani in the same way as the 8v one for an adapter mani AX... they run a cat in mani downpipe like the 8v..so is becoming a done thing now for budget 16v conversions

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USED-PEUGE...ht_1749wt_1186

consvts · 22nd August 2012, 23:13

what is a ic pipe and mf2?

and were can i get bigger injectors?

Ross^p · 22nd August 2012, 23:57

Ic pipe is intercooler pipe. Mf2 is a budget piggyback ecu used for driving extra injector. Injectors are dictated by desired power - 160bhp will be fine with standard injectors. 182 injectors are a cheap upgrade for around the 200bhp mark.

consvts · 23rd August 2012, 00:05

ic = intercooler ya ha i am a dope :/ cheers

Bim · 23rd August 2012, 06:52

I Will use the standard clutch, see how Long and for much torque it Will hold for.
I know one in Sweden got his 106 mk1 with an tu3 to 268hp if i remember right, budget build.
with standard clutch, tu3m pistons and rods and extra injectors.

that manifold wasnt expensive. Ye cast iron is a bit Hard to weld, it can be done but as i want to Do the Most myself that not gonna happen (welded an 940 turbo mani that got some cracks tho).

As this Will be my first turbo conversion im curios about, how Do you Control the boost so i Do not overload?

just set it up on the wg and the use valve-OfSomeKind, cant remember the name for it in English.

182 injectors? Better to put those in? Or Do i need to remap? As im startin of with budget first.

low budget for Me is, startin of with that exhaust mani, eventually extra injector(not a othere ecu yet)
What turbo is Good for a setup like that? I got an 13T from an Volvo v70 2.5t, Think those turbos work up to about 190-210hp MAX.

Size of intercooler?

And questions about oil feed etc, where Do you take it. And why Do i need to restrict the oil feed?
the oil return just goin back to the sump somewhere, aboive oil level. And anyone got pics where you Do put it, as i dont know the level .

And water for the turbo, i got pipes which goes to the oil cooler i saw someone used, is that okay?

And buy mocal oil cooler and relocate the oil filter?

Something like this (hes oil return doesnt have a very Good Line, does it?)

Ross^p · 23rd August 2012, 08:30

Without wishing to be rude, from the questions you are asking it's clear you haven't done very much research into the subject. I urge you to search these forums as those questions have been covered many times already, plus much more.

Have a good read here in the forums, search as much as you can. Research as much as you can, and post back if you need help. Things like turbo oil feed restrictions are "general knowledge" to those who've read up on the subject.

Good luck.

consvts · 23rd August 2012, 18:20

how high bar boost can ya go on stock internals before ya need to change them??

boz · 23rd August 2012, 18:54

you can weld the standard cast manifold no problem, you just need to heat it up until it is starting to glow, this way your weld will take a really good hold, once its welded and cleaned up give it another blast to the same, helps to remove stress from the weld and just allow it to cool normally ;D
you want it sitting straight to avoid any oil starvation, i have seen some terrible ones in the past. for a low boost budget setup, you cant go wrong with a couple of extra standard injectors fitted to an elbow on the inlet befor the tb, leave the standard ones in the car and run an earl mf2 unit, you will also need a map sensor, in basic terms, the map sensor reads boost from the tubro, the mf2 unit then opens up the extra injectors to up the fueling when on boost, the standard ecu just runs the car as normal during idle etc. not the best way in the world, but it was used and still is and works. you will need the injectors to spray into the tb and not onto the pipework etc.
gmc should still supply all of the parts needed. you can run 1 or 2 extra injectors.
1.9mm head gasket or 2 thinner ones should be enough to low the comp after a head skim.
as for the oil return to the sump, i drilled a hole above the oil line, pushed an adaptor in and brazed it either side, i didnt weld it incase it burnt through the sump ;D
for the water feeds, there are many people using different ways, you can use self sealing fittings and fit a slight restriction in the line to slow the passing water and allow it to divert off?? im not 100% as i have not done that bit of my build yet lol
good luck

boz · 23rd August 2012, 18:58

a de comp plate, is a plate that is the same profile as your head gasket, but a bit thicker.
you fit this to your car to lower the compression from n/a spec to allow you to run a turbo. some people use 2 thin headgaskets either side, others use a sealer on one side and a head gasket on the other.
gmc in the above post was ment to be gmc motorsport.

boz · 23rd August 2012, 19:02

you can take the feed from the oil pressure switch via a tea piece, but the best place for a feed is from the oil galleries for the cams in the head. they are on the battery end of you cylinder head and they are 2 small allen head caps at each side of the head, take your pick, remove one and take your feed from there.

im guessing it is a 16v vts you have or a european 8v vts??

Bim · 25th August 2012, 08:41

Its a 16v. I Guess a take the feed from head then, Do you have a Picture of someone doin it?

i ordered an 307 manifold..
the turbo i Will start of with is an td04hl-13t from v70 2,5t/2,4t

i havent read so much, cause im movin soon and dont have a pc, usin phone to search which is a bugger!

Would 2,5 inch exhaust be enough from the turbo and back?

I didnt know the difference of a 1,9mm hg and thick decomp Plate just.

about the extra injectors, how manu can mf2 use, and how does it work?

i know easier way, which is even more low budget, use pressuregaurds from old Saab turbos to start each injector at difference pressures.

Bim · 26th August 2012, 10:50

Searched and read some more, seems i iwll not be needed any oil restricton for the td04hl-13t turbo.

Its this allen Bolt under the hose there, you was talkin about? Can i take the one that are in the pic, and not the one Closer to the front?

And whats the thread size?

Bim · 20th September 2012, 11:19

So, i've been searching but i dont find an straight answer on my thoughts.

I read some run low boosts, but doesnt says anything about compression.

With low boost, means below 7psi? Do you need to lower compression, or can you drive with the std compression? (10.8:1)

As im just going to start of with low boost and some extra injectors in elbow.

Ross^p · 20th September 2012, 11:26

Depending on the turbo (small) and level of boost, you can get away without lowering the compression yes. It's not the recommended way of doing it, and most (even budget builds) will always aim to lower the complression either with two head gaskets or a de-compression plate.

blackie_2k5 · 20th September 2012, 13:09

Seen a lot of ppl run without changin comp now

Marks vts turbo was over the 250bhp mark without changing compression

Just depends on what your using to control the fuelling and who is mapping it really

Bim · 20th September 2012, 15:06

Its going to be an low budget build. As with the mapping, it wont be any. Except i Will have an eye on the afr/lambda with my wideband gauge, and Will install exhaust temperature gauge in the exh manifold.

The car gonna get its extra fuel from Cold starts injectors which sits on k-jet engines example old Volvos.

And gonna Control them with pressure guards from Saab 900/9000T.
Many in Sweden is doin this, its for starters!

each Cold start injector is Good for 10-15hp (some claim upto 20hp).
So Will put 4x in pressure pipe before throttle house.

I cant find especially many diy turbo builds, custom mani, etc etc.. Im searchin on phone tho, could be why..

blackie_2k5 · 20th September 2012, 15:14

I know a few ppl now that are fitting extra injectors in th intake like your planning on doing, running it off a pressure switch on the inlet, and adjusting the fuel pressure or changing the size/ number of injectors to get the correct afr on full boost

it will run lean/rich in certain parts of the rev range, but they seem to be lasting a while haha

On something like a t25 for example, wouldn't really wanna go more then 8-10psi as you've got nothing to control the ignition

Bim · 20th September 2012, 15:35

Im not so familiar with psi as we use bar in Sweden, same with torque we use Nm -

.

i got an td04hl-13t from an v70 , which is 2,4 or 2,5l and has about 170hp, the turbo is Good for about 220hp max.

So im gonna start really low, and go up to max 0,3-0,4bar.