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19th September 2011, 12:25
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#41
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Guantanamo Bay
Posts: 28,700
Car(s): oyster card
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonto_VTR
so RWD means the power is aimed at the rear wheels ?
so like, if you do a burn out the back ones spin, not like my saxo with the front ones...
wow.
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Nono, the steering wheel moves the wheel at the back not the front, unless you have and LSD then the steering wheel moves all wheels..
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19th September 2011, 12:43
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#42
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1,484
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Alot of 4wd cars understeer though.Especially standard scoobies. RWD ftw....rx7 yooo
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19th September 2011, 12:47
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#43
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Posts: 5,721
Car(s): Mk2 16v Desire
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Rwd all day long, i love small fwd hatch's for fun but nothing better than a well setup rwd car!
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19th September 2011, 15:08
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#44
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex
Posts: 3,362
Car(s): Citroen saxo 1.4 furio
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Any vehicle with power driving the steered wheels will have a big downside of torque application affecting the steering, the response of the steering, and more importantly the feel of the steering. With RWD, all you feel through the steering is the steering, bumps, changes. A very instictive driving feeling and you can almost drive it by feel instead of using sight alone to guide steering inputs.
Rewarding is the best word i can think of
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19th September 2011, 16:50
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#45
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,380
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If we have a clean piece of paper to design the car and I am assuming lots of grunt ,then rwd is always going to be quicker on a lap .
being old enough to have been brought up on rwd cars and the mini was something new, then i have driven both types both good + bad
the bottom line is its all about getting the car balanced ,if its a FWD, then no matter how you set it up it is always going to have understeer tendencies as wheels that transmit power and steer cannot have the correct angle to the road at all times --you "cure it" by loosening the back end so the whole car drifts through the corner --all 4 wheels have slide ways slip to a certain extent when on the limit .
this is why it is so important to do your extreme braking in a straight line ,then reapply a balanced amount of power before turning in to keep the entry speed high ,but stable ,then you don,t try to brake the traction by weight moving from the rear to the front and to opposite corner and overloading the outside front wheel and lightening the inside rear.
the reverse is nearly true of rwd .
you brake get back on throttle to even out the weight transfer ,then apply level to maybe increasing throttle into the corner .depending n its tendencies, . i have seen rwd cars set up to purposely understeer a little to balance the effect of the power at rear .
find a video of a mk1 lotus cortina and you will see it lifts inside front wheel under heavy cornering+ lots of power (no independant on rear in those days ) that how they controlled the back
it gets very complicated .but those are the basics .
as a final note F1 cars +all single seaters are rear wheel drive + mid engined .
to me the worst combination is people sticking fwd engine units into the rear of a car --weight is all in the wrong place ,and that goes for the porsche .anybody that has driven one of the older types will know how they could bite very easily and how they did not like "cats eyes or white lines"
things have moved so far with modern suspension that that all well set-up cars of either type handle well -- and don,t bite like they used to
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Last edited by axsaxoman; 19th September 2011 at 16:53.
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19th September 2011, 16:52
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#46
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Saxperience Addict
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Posts: 14,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db_sax
Nono, the steering wheel moves the wheel at the back not the front, unless you have and LSD then the steering wheel moves all wheels..
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oh i see!
ive seen this once with this guys car...helped him park! was impressive!
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19th September 2011, 17:01
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#47
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangojace
Alot of 4wd cars understeer though.Especially standard scoobies. RWD ftw....rx7 yooo
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makers set them up that way to scare the normal driver into backing off the gas which will do the opposite and loose speed very quickly and allow control to be regained without alot of drama.
I have never tried it but I have always wondered what happens when you get to the end of what the evo, yaw control can do ,and if you are brave enough it can do alot --my feeling is you will just drift right into the scenery at a speed alot quicker than you would normally ,as you will already be drifting all 4 wheels at this stage anyway,with the turbo fully spooled up and a big handful of opposite lock to boot.
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when the flag drops the bulshit stops.
owner of GMC motorsport 01671404030/01671403699
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19th September 2011, 18:05
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#48
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Saxperience Addict
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A farm shed in Aylesbury
Posts: 14,916
Car(s): Corolla AE86
Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
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In a way RWD vs FWD is a silly question. Its different drivetrains for different purposes. If the chassis is equal then the RWD version is better and will certainly will see faster lap times.
Comparing your modern hatchback to a supercar is useless. Both are built to different ideals. Comparing cars in the BTCC is not very helpful as there are equality rules, but as the RWD cars have to be heavier theres a clue there to what is better when rules standardise the cars to some extent.
With our saxo's, ax and 205's etc they are flawed on paper, but a FWD setup can be cheaper, lighter and the cars are lightweight overall, meaning that they can outclass given certain top trump scenarios. The reality is that each car model on the road is so vastly different its impossible to compare with any real meaningful end result.
Saab probably said 240bhp was enough in 1980. Suspension, differentials and tyres are far superior now, though Vauxhall forgot to read the manual at all and still puts silly engines in shit chassis.
RWD can be fast and so can FWD. Theres little more you can really say. We are not driving formula 1 cars so lets not worry about the pinnacle of racing.
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19th September 2011, 19:03
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#49
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex
Posts: 3,362
Car(s): Citroen saxo 1.4 furio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KamRacing
FWD can be fast, RWD can be faster. There's little more you can really say.
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19th September 2011, 19:56
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#50
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Saxperience Addict
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A farm shed in Aylesbury
Posts: 14,916
Car(s): Corolla AE86
Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamskiTNR
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try converting your saxo then. I think you will be dissapointed
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19th September 2011, 20:32
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#51
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex
Posts: 3,362
Car(s): Citroen saxo 1.4 furio
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I'll take a pass. I'm yet to see a z cars conversion go round a track, but if they are anything like the mini's they will be awful widow makers
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19th September 2011, 22:03
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#52
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: wigan
Posts: 778
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like a mini a saxo is too short a wheel base for rear wheel drive. a car designed to be rwd is better. rwd wins end of. all the fastest cars are rwd all all bikes are. if my gsxr was front wheel drive i wouldnt take it off my estate.
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19th September 2011, 22:10
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#53
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: dudley United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 6,789
Car(s): 106 gti/ SEAT LCR
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People go on about wheelbase as if it's mega short but in reality its only about 6.5cm shorter than a Ferrari 355
Edit: and a longer wheelbase than a lotus Elise... Maybe a rwd conversion isn't such a bad idea
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Last edited by dannygti; 19th September 2011 at 22:12.
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The Following User Says Thank You to dannygti For This Useful Post:
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19th September 2011, 22:11
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#54
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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If your bike was FWD it would be engineereing genius!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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19th September 2011, 22:16
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#55
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 6,719
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Awd >>> rwd >>> fwd
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19th September 2011, 22:33
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#56
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex
Posts: 3,362
Car(s): Citroen saxo 1.4 furio
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actually by the 11th commandment that's wrong
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19th September 2011, 22:52
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#57
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 6,719
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What RWD cars get better times than the GTR on the ring and other circuits?
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19th September 2011, 23:02
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#58
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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Zonda F
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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19th September 2011, 23:07
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#59
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: dudley United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 6,789
Car(s): 106 gti/ SEAT LCR
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Radical sr8lm
Porsche gt2rs
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Boost pressure is underrated
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20th September 2011, 02:37
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#60
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Established Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: torquay (England)
Posts: 1,993
Car(s): supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy
Zonda F
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um no it doesnt m8
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vts, the futures bright the futures boost
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliderz
your car wipes mine out , any day . looking good
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush
lady charger ftw in this case
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