Toad's Lifeline - Saxo Cup front suspension purchased!

[pjm300]

i'd ask to see what they machine before they put it together. if its different to what they did last time (and it will be otherwise there'll be valve clash again), then ask them why they didnt do that previously.

[Toad]

Bics, you crack me up man. You wanna be my PI?

Paul! No comment...

Thanks Mr Quick Pug. I'm trying... But they've had the car for a month now.

Alex, I don't know enough about pistons, but it's not the actual pistons which are being machined, it's the rod bolts I think. Something to do with the height of the pistons? I can't remember when Matt told me, but he told me as soon as he ordered them from Germany that they will need adjusting.

[Olly]

Dave, make sure this time you speak to him about the consequences if this engine fail's this time. Say, youve been pretty fair about the first incident, and if it doesnt work out this time, im not paying any more, And want compensation for the loss of use of the car.... Say your paying for a taxi... etc everyday. Planning dude

[Bickerton]

Originally Posted by Toad

Bics, you crack me up man. You wanna be my PI?

I am a bit of a paranoid cynic aint i

[Toad]

Originally Posted by sax-oli

Dave, make sure this time you speak to him about the consequences if this engine fail's this time. Say, youve been pretty fair about the first incident, and if it doesnt work out this time, im not paying any more, And want compensation for the loss of use of the car.... Say your paying for a taxi... etc everyday. Planning dude

Don't you worry. It's all their work, so their problem. I'm still going to be challenging some stuff come bill time...

[Toad]

Originally Posted by Bickerton

I am a bit of a paranoid cynic aint i

Only the paranoid survive...

[Quik_Pug]

Originally Posted by Toad

Thanks Mr Quick Pug. I'm trying... But they've had the car for a month now.

Its Tom mate. Like i said hopefully it will be sorted soon - i can imagine your very frustrated right now

[Lewisimo]

Unfortunately Matt's a big skin head so you can't even threaten him lol! I am of course joking, i'm sure he'll be reasonable when it comes to paying for it all. You don't want to listen to everyone on here mate, it'll just worry you senseless, just wait until you get it back then make your decisions. No engine build goes 100% to plan, it's just the way it is. Hell my engine may even blow up when I eventually start it (I sincerely hope not though lol!) Bob who is wiring my car has said that Northampton Motorsport are prety good, and him, Bic and those guys don't recommend idiots at all, I would trust their advice so i'm sure they'll do a fine job of it. Shit happens, lets just hope it goes well next time round!! Just don't fucking worry about it too much man, I know it's not easy as i'm the same, but just wait to see how it goes once it's done

My final word on this whole debacle though is that I think Sandy Brown is the only guy I would trust 100% without any qualms to do any future work on my engine.....

[Toad]

I'm a skinhead too. I could take him...

I'm not going to go marching in there, saying I'm no paying for any additional work. I'm going to be very reasonable, and hope he remains the same. My main argument will be with regard to the money quoted for Pug1Off to check over, take apart and put the bottom end back together, as this was to make sure there wouldn't be any issues with it. I was asked if I wanted them to just bolt it on and hope for the best, but Matt strongly advised against this. From the way I saw it, this was my own personal insurance with them. Now, it becomes debateable after something did go wrong. Had I not taken Matt up on the offer for the check-over, I could have been left up shit creek without a paddle, i.e., no offer of them to put another engine together for me. I think he's gone for the option of hoping I'm not going to be a difficult customer, and by offering me his services free of charge for all the re-build work, I would take him up on it. I'm willing, and have been obviously, to accept that building engines to this specification is not an exact science. Things do go wrong, and bill soar. Obviously I've been extremely unlucky, to the highest degree in all fairness. Having accepted the reality of what's happened, and not kicking up a big fuss, I'm hoping we can talk sense and come to a fair conclusion. I don't want this to end up in court, it's just way too much hassle for me.

From a technical point of view, does anyone know exactly how the valves could have made contact with the bottom edges of the pockets? Is it purely that the pistons did not have the pockets in the required position? When I got the bottom end off the previous owner, I could see that his valves (bigger than mine) had made contact with the actual pistons, (just barely) but they were bang in the middle of the pockets. I haven't got a clear explanation on this from Matt, and it could be crucial to working out who's really responsible for the damage.

Cheers.

[Toad]

Picture for reference:



Arrows point to where the exhaust valves were catching on the pockets.

[Ashleyp]

sir toad can be angry if need's be...

[Bickerton]

looks pissed in another way tbh

[Ashleyp]

Originally Posted by Bickerton

looks pissed in another way tbh

haha, the joys of a witty bickerton

[Olly]

Heres a pic of my wossners for reference,

Yours

Note, The pictures are different way around, Which i didnt realise for a moment there!

Do you have a picture of the bottom end @ TDC?

[raunchz]

The pictures at the start of this thread help ?

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=211149

From looking at it, the 'custom JE' pistons just look completely wrong with regards to valve cut-out sizes when compared with the above wossners, and the desired compression ratio with the pistons (the peak in the middle looks huge!!!)

I can imagine maybe your exhaust valves were marginally larger than was on the QEP head previously fitted to the bottom end?

[Olly]

Pug 1 off machined the pistons after that for sale thread pic, Dont think toads valves were bigger than adams.
They took a hell of a lot off, If they didnt re-machine the valve cutouts then removing material from the top of the piston would have reduced the cutout size.

[Toad]

My valves would not be bigger than Adam's...

You can see that the problem is the alignment of the valves, not their size. They were coming in too close to the bottom of the pockets. There was no contact with the actual flat part / bottom of the pocket, it was the pocket walls which were being hit. The area which was machined was the centre dome of the pistons. This is not where the contact was made.

[raunchz]

The valve cut-outs in the wossner pistons look tapered on the exhaust side? Whereas the JE ones aren't?

So the actual valve cut-outs in the JE's are the same as the wossners? but the wossners have a taper on the back face of the cut-out to help minimise contact when running long duration cams?

Just thinking outloud - I'm not an engine geek

[Toad]

Originally Posted by raunchz

The valve cut-outs in the wossner pistons look tapered on the exhaust side? Whereas the JE ones aren't?

So the actual valve cut-outs in the JE's are the same as the wossners? but the wossners have a taper on the back face of the cut-out to help minimise contact when running long duration cams?

Just thinking outloud - I'm not an engine geek

Maybe, but the valves really shouldn't be that close...

[Toad]

Didn't realise Oli posted a pic!

Yeah, the pockets are lower down on the exhaust side. That's it then! Pug1Off simply didn't know the pockets were located more centrally, nearer the dome. I guess a dry build was too labour intensive...