FWD v RWD - Saxperience

titchster · 18th September 2011, 21:54

Instead of clogging up the 'stripped interior' thread, let's continue the discussion in this thread.
I know it's an age old arguement, with no 'official' outcome, but, healthy discussion, and all that...

OK, i'll start with the post that I was composing in the interior thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzink

I fully accept RWD is quicker but comment I made was in wet with average person driving they are slower due to ability, which is true, that's all! I u disagree I don't care and cannot be bothered to continue thus petty argument as I have a life!

You kinda contradict that in your previous post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzink

Takes far more skill to drive a rear wheel drive car in the rain especially if it's mid engined!

Even classifying it as the 'average person' doesn't mean a FWD will be faster in the wet than a RWD. Since there's that many varying skill levels, even in the wet, there's no reason why a RWD will necessarily be slower than a FWD. Sure the RWD will take more skill to drive faster in the wet, but it also take more skill to drive faster in the dry, too.

Mochachino · 18th September 2011, 22:05

My uneducated opinion is that RWD is the better car as you have more control over under and oversteer. But it dosent mean it faster imo.

My uneducated means of proof is the BTCC, RWD BMW and Audi with all the FWD cars.

hard_corejoeboy · 18th September 2011, 22:45

I had a massive spiel about another test the glossy magazines did recently involving the latest RS Megane but i saw db_sax's post and i think he kinda summed it up really.

I still believe given a certain power level FWD is best and above that RWD is best.

BUT saying that a while ago Honda's engineers said that 170bhp was the ABSOLUTE limit for FWD and now we have FWD cars with almost double that sort of power quite happily pissing all over the RWD cars.

The hot Megane's for example the R26R was faster than the old M3 round the Nurburgring and that had how much power?

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 22:48

Good call on the thread.
In BTCC and most other race series all the cars are balanced to make itr nice and close and fair. Either with ballast or technical regulations. I think the balance is fairer this year in btcc.
With wet and dry. I think the main point is that the skill gap is bigger with rwd.
When it gets wet in fwd you have to be x better. When it gets wet in a rwd car you have to be x+1 better

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

The hot Megane's for example the R26R was faster than the old M3 round the Nurburgring and that had how much power?

And how heavy was the m3 compared. a missing factor

Mochachino · 18th September 2011, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

Good call on the thread.
In BTCC and most other race series all the cars are balanced to make itr nice and close and fair. Either with ballast or technical regulations. I think the balance is fairer this year in btcc.
With wet and dry. I think the main point is that the skill gap is bigger with rwd.
When it gets wet in fwd you have to be x better. When it gets wet in a rwd car you have to be x+1 better

I can confirm the last sentence, which is why I came back to FWD

So take how balanced the car is out of this and the technical regs. (obviously not make the car less balanced btw)

but same power, same weight, same engine. The cars would make the same laptimes?

I would stick with what I said about the ability to handle the car is better on rwd, but whether it would be quicker?

hard_corejoeboy · 18th September 2011, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

And how heavy was the m3 compared. a missing factor

True...but if RWD is soooo much better.....

I think FWD is a lot easier to drive definately.

I also have found it better round corners as the last cheeky race i had with an M3 towards the end of a corner his car was starting to drift a touch. My car wasn't spinning a wheel and was happily on his ass.Yes he had more weight but he also had a lot wider tyres etc etc

Thats just an experience and an opinion no-one can say for sure which is better. Hell in 5 years we will probably have 500bhp FWD cars outperforming the RWD/

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 23:08

No. There are too many variables with the btcc to say they would lap the same. Driver abilities, familiarities, track suitability, chassis geometry. and things like the chassis characteristics can't be said to be good or bad, as some drivers will find them good and some will find them bad.

hard_corejoeboy · 18th September 2011, 23:15

In BTCC the RWD are quicker off the line. The FWD cars tyres warm up quicker.

Once the advantages have been played out i think they small differences between the cars/drivers takes over not whether they are rwd or fwd

I bet the M3 owners club would love this thread hahaha or any Jap car owners lol

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 23:17

Of course. As all the cars are completely different and the drivers, ballast, technical balancing. it would be impossible to pin the difference on just the drive type

Mochachino · 18th September 2011, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

True...but if RWD is soooo much better.....

I think FWD is a lot easier to drive definately.

I also have found it better round corners as the last cheeky race i had with an M3 towards the end of a corner his car was starting to drift a touch. My car wasn't spinning a wheel and was happily on his ass.Yes he had more weight but he also had a lot wider tyres etc etc

Thats just an experience and an opinion no-one can say for sure which is better. Hell in 5 years we will probably have 500bhp FWD cars outperforming the RWD/

You can make a RWD car drift at 20mph

Mochachino · 18th September 2011, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

No. There are too many variables with the btcc to say they would lap the same. Driver abilities, familiarities, track suitability, chassis geometry. and things like the chassis characteristics can't be said to be good or bad, as some drivers will find them good and some will find them bad.

If you had like 3 series RWD and a 3eries FWD, same everything, even weighted it out the same so they were indentical apart from ones RWD ones FWD, same driver how do you think they would fair?

Just abit of playin about here

titchster · 18th September 2011, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

I think the balance is fairer this year in btcc.

I think Mr. Plato may disagree on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

I also have found it better round corners as the last cheeky race i had with an M3 towards the end of a corner his car was starting to drift a touch. My car wasn't spinning a wheel and was happily on his ass.Yes he had more weight but he also had a lot wider tyres etc etc

Just out of curiosity, how sure are you he wasn't toying with you? Drifting a smidge to try and make a point? Not saying he wasn't seriously on it, but there's the chance. There's also driver skill level differences, perhaps you were simply a better driver?

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 23:24

Okay. If on the same tyres, having wider tyres will increase the limit of adhesion (on a car this point is often measured in g when turning a corner. the more grip the higher the g before the car will let go) If the m3 was setup correctly and driven by someone who knew how to drive do you really think that it should have been drifting where you could fly through fine. If it's going sideways accuse the driver before the car

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

I think Mr. Plato may disagree on that.

?

Lol, did you see his little scuffle with o'neil after qualifying at rockingham?

Dave_P · 18th September 2011, 23:27

Fwd ftw.

adamskiTNR · 18th September 2011, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Fwd ftw.

Stop being driveist

titchster · 18th September 2011, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

Lol, did you see his little scuffle with o'neil after qualifying at rockingham?

Saw a quick clip on Pootube earlier, but not seen it properly yet, i'm sure it'll be on the ITV4 footage though, when I get round to watching it.

Viper · 18th September 2011, 23:29

It's all relative to the car and the driver!

hard_corejoeboy · 18th September 2011, 23:29

To be honest i think i just took a better line through the corner but doing it at the same angle as him im sure my old car would have coped and not stepped out like that. Maybe he was playing. Maybe he hit grease...maybe my chassis mods especially the b8's mullered him

In my experience the back end on a RWD tends to let go before the back goes on a FWD but then my RWD knowledge is mainly from other people's cars as the only thing RWD i drive is a lorry lol

I also can definately say FWD is easy to drive though. Go tooo fast through a corner you will understeer. Go to fast through a corner and then let off you will have one wheel off the ground and oversteer. Is much fun and mamy happy times i have with Mr FWD

Awaits the hater's club