| Saxo Engine/Performance If you're interested in tuning Saxo engines, or if you need to know something which is engine related... this is the place for you. |
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14th April 2013, 14:24
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#81
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 751
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^there was something seriously wrong with that engine prior to remap, look at the osciliations in the torque curve
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14th April 2013, 14:31
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#82
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pompey/Darlo
Posts: 31,546
Car(s): MK1 - 1.1 Animal
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Yeah I know. It was mapped by "one of the best mappers in Ireland" luckily the roads were shit from the time I got it until remap as I just drove like a grandad. Nothing wrong with engine, just the shit map
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14th April 2013, 14:37
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#83
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pompey/Darlo
Posts: 31,546
Car(s): MK1 - 1.1 Animal
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Pictures are mid mapping forgot to and not finished
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16th April 2013, 09:49
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#84
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Infrequent Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 136
Car(s): Peugeot 106 Rallye Turbo 385bhp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e8_pqck
ok - added Ropers to the comparison graph - Sonny's Owen developments HTA is proving hard to beat on paper - wonder how it translates in the real world!
GT2860HTA - Sonny
VF35 - Me!
GT2860 - Ross
GTX2867R - Roper
T34 - Martin (Tweeqd)
GT30 - Ross
Cammed VTS for comparison! |
Instant response, no lag, big smiles!!
Can't wait to see this once its running more boost. somewhere around 28psi Like Roper's GTX.
Maybe some WMI.
Last edited by sje00; 16th April 2013 at 12:09.
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16th April 2013, 10:59
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#85
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,525
Car(s): Mango Westcoast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e8_pqck
Is your dyno chart on here? - i will see how it compares.
In the real worldn power doesn't translate into better lap times. All the vids i've seen of Sandy's engines has me very impressed, there was one of a 106 all over a 450bhp turbo cupra!
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I'll speak to sandy about posting it up...
Yes it's definitely not all about peak power, it's about useable power and good midrange + good throttle response. Will Diclaudio often beats a 500+ bhp rover and a 330bhp NA Astra in his 210bhp Sandy engine 106...
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The Following User Says Thank You to jpsaxo For This Useful Post:
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16th April 2013, 12:06
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#86
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Infrequent Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 136
Car(s): Peugeot 106 Rallye Turbo 385bhp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo
I'll speak to sandy about posting it up...
Yes it's definitely not all about peak power, it's about useable power and good midrange + good throttle response. Will Diclaudio often beats a 500+ bhp rover and a 330bhp NA Astra in his 210bhp Sandy engine 106...
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I think having big kahoona's also helps lol 
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sje00 For This Useful Post:
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16th April 2013, 13:59
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#87
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 727
Car(s): 106 GTi Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e8_pqck
ok - added Ropers to the comparison graph - Sonny's Owen developments HTA is proving hard to beat on paper - wonder how it translates in the real world!
GT2860HTA - Sonny
VF35 - Me!
GT2860 - Ross
GTX2867R - Roper
T34 - Martin (Tweeqd)
GT30 - Ross
Cammed VTS for comparison! |
do me do me do me 
GT2873HTA (1.5bar)
- colin
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16th April 2013, 18:54
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#88
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,530
Car(s): AX 16v Turbo
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Thanks Colin, i'm going to redo the graph with wheel horse power only as i converted sonny's with 20% drivetrain losses which is skewing the figures - yours which is on the same dyno and roughly the same engine is very close between engine and wheel horsepower.
One thing i cant understand with yours though, is that your engine output is still climbing at 8000rpm yet your wheel horsepower drops off.
One of the highest revving turbo cars on the forum - i had to increase the graph scale!
I'll redo the graph with WHP only - this will make for the best comparison.
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16th April 2013, 19:28
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#89
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Infrequent Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 136
Car(s): Peugeot 106 Rallye Turbo 385bhp
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Tbh there is some different losses knocking about.
I think mine is around 380-385flywheel. It's 335ish atw like Ropers and Matt Russels.
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16th April 2013, 19:48
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#90
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Infrequent Poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 172
Car(s): Saxo vtr
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My itb'd 8v rallye
-Lukeeboy149
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16th April 2013, 21:23
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#91
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,530
Car(s): AX 16v Turbo
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ok, revised results!
I dont know what's going on with Ropers graph, maybe the cams need sorting but i'd expect more than that from a GTX. Sonny's is still mightily impressive spooling but Colin has a huge powerband compared to the rest of us which will translate well in the real world i should imagine.
GT2860HTA - Sonny
VF35 - Me!
TD05 - DannyGTI
GT2860 - Ross
GT2873HTA - Colin
GTX2867R - Roper
T34 - Martin (Tweeqd)
GT30 - Ross
Cammed VTS for comparison!
Last edited by e8_pqck; 16th April 2013 at 21:38.
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The Following User Says Thank You to e8_pqck For This Useful Post:
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16th April 2013, 22:18
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#92
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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Gtx2876 isnt that far off the old school t34
Need to get my map finished with wmi ( and add a graph with nos )
Last edited by tweeqd; 16th April 2013 at 22:22.
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16th April 2013, 22:29
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#93
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pompey/Darlo
Posts: 31,546
Car(s): MK1 - 1.1 Animal
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I love that graph. Just under 400 in my car is serious. In a saxo or ax, wow!
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16th April 2013, 23:28
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#94
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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Its mental in the ax, 360bhp will leave an r6 and a 450 BHP rs4 behind and no let off in pulling to 150+
Ian the 6speed makes a world of diff to the power band while on the road
Last edited by tweeqd; 16th April 2013 at 23:30.
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17th April 2013, 00:44
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#95
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 727
Car(s): 106 GTi Turbo
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Not really a true comparison as all the specs have different engine specs, so all going to produce different turbo behaviour and results ... Still nice to see comparisons though.
Re transmission loss. The green line near the bottom of the graph shows driveline loss. The loss is obviously greater at higher speed / rpm. Usually we see around 30 - 40hp loss through the be boxes. But of course depends on gearbox oil, oil temp, tyre temp, resistance, tyre growth. Any steering angle input? So many variables to consider. However I will say that using a driveline loss, wether its accurate flywheel figure or not, the end result is a lot more consistent making it a better tuning tool - you can see differences in wheel power of 3 - 4 hp but end up with the same fly figure once it's taken into account the variation in losses. Much better for proving differences when doing ignition timing or cam timing for example as your minimising the variables =0)
But having said that, they do seem to be pretty close when we have compared against engine dynos... So for someone who never believed in driveline losses on rolling roads (me) I've been swayed otherwise. =0)
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19th April 2013, 14:55
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#96
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North East
Posts: 510
Car(s): EP3 Type R
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21st April 2013, 19:46
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#97
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northern Ireland - Co. Londonderry
Posts: 540
Car(s): Ep3 type r + Saxo VTS
Old: '89 205 1.6 GTi
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21st April 2013, 21:05
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#98
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L-plater
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 45
Car(s): C2 GT Turbo
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Just spotted this thread, thought id throw mine in there for comparison...
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23rd April 2013, 19:50
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#99
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 727
Car(s): 106 GTi Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorGT
Just spotted this thread, thought id throw mine in there for comparison...
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how much torque!!? 
how much boost is it running?
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23rd April 2013, 22:40
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#100
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L-plater
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 45
Car(s): C2 GT Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atspeedracing
how much torque!!?
how much boost is it running? |
Its running 1.9bar from 4250 to 5000( to help with torque ), then drops to 1.8 flat thereafter.
There's a dash of nitrous in the midrange to help the torque a bit more too, only around 40% of a 75 nozzle from 3500, decrasing to 0 at 6250 ( cant run anymore as it causes boost creep )
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