Clutch for engine swapped VTS - Saxperience

dturbo · 3rd November 2018, 17:34

Hi Folks,

I will be fitting my 'new' gearbox soon and the release bearing is needing replaced too. I'm just going to get a clutch kit (clutch seems OK but seems better value getting the kit and I may just replace it anyway).

I have a JP4s engine in the saxo (NFS). As far as I can tell, the clutch is the same for this engine as the J4, but just wanted to run that by you knowledgeable people.

I am looking at this one on ebay :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Saxo-Xsara-Clutch-Kit-Mechanism-Plate-Release-Bearing-1-4-1-6-LUK-New/282911985235?fits=Model%3ASaxo&epid=249104072&hash =item41dede4e53:g:hf8AAOSwQqdaw7oD:rk:4

f:0http://

This should be suitable right ?

Thanks
Craig

MartinObviously · 4th November 2018, 11:05

Hi Craig

No, the clutches aren't the same.

It depends on the flywheel.

A j4 clutch (later type one!) will fit a JP4S Flywheel but you'll have to drill the 6 cover plate holes to 8mm.

So if you've got a sharp 8mm drill bit, then the clutch in the link will fit lol.

dturbo · 4th November 2018, 11:27

Thanks Martin. So.. what will be on it then? JP4s clutch? Like from a C2 VTS (Which we are pretty sure the engine is from). The box is definitely a VTR one, found the code. Thing is that one I linked lists it as suitable for both the Saxo 1.6 VTS and the C2 VTS.

Confused!

MartinObviously · 4th November 2018, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dturbo

Thanks Martin. So.. what will be on it then? JP4s clutch? Like from a C2 VTS (Which we are pretty sure the engine is from). The box is definitely a VTR one, found the code. Thing is that one I linked lists it as suitable for both the Saxo 1.6 VTS and the C2 VTS.

Confused!

It's all down to the flywheel. J4 flyweel bolts are m7 and jp4 and jp4s are m8 bolts. Think c2 release bearings are different on some models too. That kit should fit

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dturbo · 4th November 2018, 12:13

Cheers. So maybe best plan is to get the box off and assess what's on there? I take it you mean the pressure plate cover bolt holes? If I find 7mm holes then it's J4 flywheel?

I have also read that the release bearing is different, wonder if it would be instantly obvious as I have the release bearing on the replacement box, which came off a J4 engined VTS.

MartinObviously · 4th November 2018, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dturbo

Cheers. So maybe best plan is to get the box off and assess what's on there? I take it you mean the pressure plate cover bolt holes? If I find 7mm holes then it's J4 flywheel?

I have also read that the release bearing is different, wonder if it would be instantly obvious as I have the release bearing on the replacement box, which came off a J4 engined VTS.

100% you'll need a normal saxo release bearing for the gearbox you have. But yeah 7mm is j4 fly. I doubt it's been changed though really

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dturbo · 4th November 2018, 18:25

Thanks again Martin. Sorry if I seem a bit thick, I'm not really up on clutches (never done one!). If you don't mind I'll just check s few things. It's likely the JP4s flywheel is still on there, if so I can either buy a JP4s clutch and combine that with the saxo release bearing, or I can buy a saxo clutch but drill out the holes to 8mm. Does that sound right ?

Also, assuming I am getting a saxo clutch, you mentioned it must be the later type one. My car is a 2000 year VTS, would a clutch that's for a 2000 car be be suitably 'later' to be OK?

Thanks again
Craig

MartinObviously · 4th November 2018, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dturbo

Thanks again Martin. Sorry if I seem a bit thick, I'm not really up on clutches (never done one!). If you don't mind I'll just check s few things. It's likely the JP4s flywheel is still on there, if so I can either buy a JP4s clutch and combine that with the saxo release bearing, or I can buy a saxo clutch but drill out the holes to 8mm. Does that sound right ?

Also, assuming I am getting a saxo clutch, you mentioned it must be the later type one. My car is a 2000 year VTS, would a clutch that's for a 2000 car be be suitably 'later' to be OK?

Thanks again
Craig

No worries, it's really easy to get wrong.

So yes, a JP4S clutch with the Saxo release bearing will work.

Or, as you say, a Saxo clutch and bearing will work if you drill it.

2000 is a bit of a funny year, some places dont list clutches properly. to be on the safe side look for a 2003 clutch. Later clutch covers are evenly spaced bolt holes

Your 2000 VTS could be built in 1999, so it would have the early type clutch OR the later one

so don't use your reg for ordering a clutch.

dturbo · 4th November 2018, 20:12

Me again.... So again, idiots guide - I take it a JP4S clutch will still fit even if the J4 flywheel has been used, since the cover holes will be bigger than those in the flywheel? Or is it a bad idea (eg improper engagement of the bolts). I'm just thinking maybe the 4S clutch option is the safest one if it will work in all combinations of what may have been done during the engine swap.

Cheers
Craig

MartinObviously · 4th November 2018, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dturbo

Me again.... So again, idiots guide - I take it a JP4S clutch will still fit even if the J4 flywheel has been used, since the cover holes will be bigger than those in the flywheel? Or is it a bad idea (eg improper engagement of the bolts). I'm just thinking maybe the 4S clutch option is the safest one if it will work in all combinations of what may have been done during the engine swap.

Cheers
Craig

No a jp4s clutch cover won't fit a j4 flywheel. J4 bolts are smaller. But a j4 clutch will fit a jp4s flywheel if you drill the cover

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dturbo · 4th November 2018, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

No a jp4s clutch cover won't fit a j4 flywheel. J4 bolts are smaller. But a j4 clutch will fit a jp4s flywheel if you drill the cover

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Think Ive got it (finally). I'll get the one for a 2003 J4 engined saxo then, that way the worst case scenario is that I will need to drill out the cover. I agree it is likely that it will in fact be a JP4s flywheel and that I will need to do this, but the alternative of having a clutch I can't use right at the moment when I need it (even if it is unlikely to happen) is less desirable!

I've got it now yeah?

dturbo · 13th November 2018, 09:09

So, this job is done now. Became more of a saga than intended!. Bought the late style LUK clutch kit, but once I was in at the flywheel I saw that it was the old type with the 120 Deg spaced hole pairs. So the clutch didn't fit. Luckily a very nice guy (David, who I got my exhaust from) had a spare flywheel, so I got that , fitted it and the clutch went on fine after that.

MartinObviously · 13th November 2018, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dturbo

So, this job is done now. Became more of a saga than intended!. Bought the late style LUK clutch kit, but once I was in at the flywheel I saw that it was the old type with the 120 Deg spaced hole pairs. So the clutch didn't fit. Luckily a very nice guy (David, who I got my exhaust from) had a spare flywheel, so I got that , fitted it and the clutch went on fine after that.

Sounds like someone bought the engine and transferred the original clutch and things over to it! Oh well at least it's done now

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dturbo · 14th November 2018, 22:44

Yip, that's exactly it Martin. Transferred the whole setup across to the 4S engine. There was actually very little wear on the friction plate, barely any (maybe they renewed just that part) but the release bearing was in a terrible state (I knew that anyway from the noises it was making!).