TB's vs Turbo - Page 9 - Saxperience

KamRacing · 10th September 2007, 16:31

Tb's will not compress any air at all unless fed through an airbox that effectively uses the high pressure air at the front of a car, even then you are talking 1 or 2 psi max, considering boosted you are looking at 30psi its neglegable

RedB · 10th September 2007, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

A turbo car once well set up can be as fast if not faster than a n/a car, but what you find is that most cars are built to a budget and n/a people can and do spend more on suspension which is where most of your time is made. £3k on suspension is better than £3k on engine parts when you are building a circuit car.

With any setup its about useable power. 700bhp is no good if you can't accelerate with your foot to the floor as you get massive wheelspin. Throttlebodies offer a far quicker throttle response over normal inlet systems and turbo/supercharger setups and are easier to drive at the limit.

But take any engine, you should look at getting the most power out of it, Dry sumps, smaller alternators, small flywheels & clutches, catch tanks, straight cut gears, lightweight internals all help to remove parasitic losses and get the maximum potential out of what you have..

That really is good advice about setup Kam, my last comment saying about ideals and that shizzle was in response to the other comment about track cars btw..

Im happy sticking with what iv got and if i could end up with a setup like is listed above and what a few on here have managed to achieve my cock size would grow a little bit lol

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Tb's will not compress any air at all unless fed through an airbox that effectively uses the high pressure air at the front of a car, even then you are talking 1 or 2 psi max, considering boosted you are looking at 30psi its neglegable

off topic, you seen sybez is thinking about going back to single TB with the charger?

KamRacing · 10th September 2007, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

JC is popular now because of the fast and the furious lol! that film did wonders for honda garages.

Remeber that Vtec-s are high revving engine much like what you would have when running tbs.

Vtec is not about big power. It was designed to enable a car to have good fuel consumption even though it had an aggressive cam profile for performance, so a jekyl/hyde engine was created. To tune the cars to race spec you will always find the vtec is the first thing to bin. A similar pug engine with a fast road cam will be similar power though it will be harder to drive at slow speeds and fuel consumption will suck in comparison

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Vtec is not about big power. It was designed to enable a car to have good fuel consumption even though it had an aggressive cam profile for performance, so a jekyl/hyde engine was created. To tune the cars to race spec you will always find the vtec is the first thing to bin. A similar pug engine with a fast road cam will be similar power though it will be harder to drive at slow speeds and fuel consumption will suck in comparison

Vtecs are the engine alot of fast road users have as the engine of choice was my main comment. The Vtec engine is a masterpiece in itself. It was because Ste was saying about HUge power and haveing a jap car, which as you just said Vtec isnt about that

Personally would prefer not to junk the vtec and keep its nature and just run some bodies on it, seen a few very nice Tegs like this that were superbly set up.

KamRacing · 10th September 2007, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

off topic, you seen sybez is thinking about going back to single TB with the charger?

Throttle bodies are all about getting the maximum air to each cylinder. With a single body one cylinder might run lean and another rich due to the poor designed airflow inside the inlet manifold. Individual tb's can be tuned to allow the correct air to go to each cylinder.
With a turbo engine the air is far denser with oxygen and the benefit of throttlebodies is negated as air is pushed into the engine. He will probably benefit from a larger single unit for engine simplicity and power...

RedB · 10th September 2007, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

BICS?

theres no such thing, BIC is a person.

He has Pugsport DTH throttle bodies as far as im aware, in a modified (206 irc) longmans airbox, its got a pannel filter to clean the air, and the airbox should theoreticaly help with the ambient temperature.

A Turbo is ALOT of pressure the air is compressed to, you wouldnt get anythig near this from TBs. For a start a trumpet couldnt produce anywhere near enough ram effect to compress it.

i meant what does BICs run sorry lol, it was a 106 as well and pant stainingly quick, il find the video on youtube in a bit

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Throttle bodies are all about getting the maximum air to each cylinder. With a single body one cylinder might run lean and another rich due to the poor designed airflow inside the inlet manifold. Individual tb's can be tuned to allow the correct air to go to each cylinder.
With a turbo engine the air is far denser with oxygen and the benefit of throttlebodies is negated as air is pushed into the engine. He will probably benefit from a larger single unit for engine simplicity and power...

its not going to be so bad for him though, its only the ford boys that really use ITBs on turbo engines because the standard inlet is so poor, but even then a fair few junk the intenrals, and attach a bigger single TB onto the plenum chamber.
Hes been complaining that the TBs are making the throttle to harsh and snappy which he doesnt want with the power he is running.

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbullet07

i meant what does BICs run sorry lol, it was a 106 as well and pant stainingly quick, il find the video on youtube in a bit

dont need vids, i know of bics car - hence my post.

Most of his speed is from the gearbox, no longer going to be a 1600 that.

KamRacing · 10th September 2007, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Vtecs are the engine alot of fast road users have as the engine of choice was my main comment. The Vtec engine is a masterpiece in itself. It was because Ste was saying about HUge power and haveing a jap car, which as you just said Vtec isnt about that

Personally would prefer not to junk the vtec and keep its nature and just run some bodies on it, seen a few very nice Tegs like this that were superbly set up.

True. We are keeping the vtec on the 309 s2000 as it will make it simple and reliable to start. The average jap cars are nothing great to be honest. The civic is pretty good but nothing to wet the bed over. Now their top of the range cars are, Evo's Skylines etc but then when new these cars cost £30k more

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

The average jap cars are nothing great to be honest.

at least someone agrees with me.

anyway 309? gonna be similar spec to sandys trio?

leeroybrown · 10th September 2007, 16:54

Quote:

The average jap cars are nothing great to be honest.

I agree

Civic Type R looks like a twat wagon

Ste · 10th September 2007, 16:55

I wouldn't go V-Tech tbh.

Silvia S14 / RB20DET

I like cars, not just a car because its from a certain part of the world. You cant say this isn't nice;

I like slammed;

i dont understand why someone wouldnt like a car because of its origin, racism to metal....

I like most cars but i can also take judgement on cars even if its against the car i have..... Something people need to learn.

KamRacing · 10th September 2007, 16:56

Ryan -
not really. The 309 has a Rallycross kevlar carbon body, spaceframe chassis, honda s2000 engine, transmittion and suspension, RWD and you get the idea.
Imagine a 750kg s2000 and you get the idea of performance...

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste_1

I like cars, not just a car because its from a certain part of the world.

The JC is a tounge in cheek joke dude dont take it so serious.

Personally i am a skyline fan, but thats not because of the engines themselves, but the handling system on them, the fact they were effecitley banned from racing in certain race series speaks for itself.

Im just a bit bored of the whole people beating off over anything thats JC tbh.

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Ryan -
not really. The 309 has a Rallycross kevlar carbon body, spaceframe chassis, honda s2000 engine, transmittion and suspension, RWD and you get the idea.
Imagine a 750kg s2000 and you get the idea of performance...

yes totally different, id like to see it at somepoint though, as from what ive seen sandys on TBs goes fucking fast, and thats really on an old beaten up shell.

I wanna drop into your workshop lol! see all these projects you have going on!

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroybrown

I agree

Civic Type R looks like a twat wagon

your post is here leeroy

jaybiss · 10th September 2007, 17:07

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/233141.htm

thoughts on that...

i dont know much but that doesnt look the best imo

Ryan^p · 10th September 2007, 17:10

the throttle body/inlet manfiold make is loved by vauxhall homos

very good reputation they have though, dont like the bonnet scoop, theres scope there to make a good car, just needs a fair bit of work, and it wont be fast.

although tbh if you could get for like 2.5k is a bit of a bargain if set up right.

Ste · 10th September 2007, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

The JC is a tounge in cheek joke dude dont take it so serious.

Personally i am a skyline fan, but thats not because of the engines themselves, but the handling system on them, the fact they were effecitley banned from racing in certain race series speaks for itself.

Im just a bit bored of the whole people beating off over anything thats JC tbh.

Do you like the N1 then? woop woop