When will saxo owners be able to buy a DECENT DIFFUSER?!

[hard_corejoeboy]

Originally Posted by mangojace

40KG? Any actual proof on this? Or is it just what someone has come out with?

Aha found the info

40KG at 70 mph and up to 70KG at higher speeds.

Yes the sun does shine out the clio's ass according to every major car journalist Chris Harris included.

Evo's review:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...o_200_cup.html

Anyways back on topic...

[kristel10589]

Originally Posted by jayyoung

mate its a Clio 200....the sun shines out of its ass. Its perfection...apparently... Best car you can ever buy.

along with everyother clio sport ever made LOL. It's so perfect, you can't get a baby travel system in the boot, so it must be soooo great for family outings etc LOL.

Iam sorry but none of the clio range is the most perfect car out there, no matter what toss pot says they are. You notice that because there good on track it makes them the best in every single every day car use, thats just pathetic.

Maybe some people will realise this when they have a family LOL.

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Aha found the info

40KG at 70 mph and up to 70KG at higher speeds.

Yes the sun does shine out the clio's ass according to every major car journalist Chris Harris included.

Evo's review:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...o_200_cup.html

Anyways back on topic...

No were does it say in that review the amount of downforce the clio aparently produces. Car reviews cant tell how a car is from a factual point of view. it's all down to personall opinion. The reviewer may like an oversteery car so would say blah blah is perfect handling because car A oversteers alot, someone reading the review may go out and buy the car on the back of reading this review and hate the cars handling because he/she prefers a car that understeers and is more stable.

So in actual fact, unless your reviewing the car yourself, reviews are in a nutshell meaningless.

[hard_corejoeboy]

1) You are quoting something i never said
2) Why could you not get a baby travel system in the boot? There is plenty of room
3) I never said that review said the amount of downforce it produces...
4) 'So in actual fact, unless your reviewing the car yourself, reviews are in a nutshell meaningless.'

When every review i could find on the internet was positive then im inclined to believe them just a little bit.

When people that know A LOT more about driving and cars than anyone on here does i feel a bit inclined to listen. Then upon test driving said car and finding everything said about it to be true then i listen even more.

Also please refrain from getting so angry and calling me a 'toss pot' if you don't like my opinions then go somewhere else. There's no need to get pre menstrual about it now.

Anyway i know a clio 200 has a diffuser but its not really on topic it is?

EDIT:

I find the 'thanks' on here to be lol hilarious when clearly i am right but people see the need to 'thank' because someone disagreed with me. Pathetic E warriors. Shame real life is a little scarier

[AndySAXOp]

To be fair though it is a Saxo forum not a clio forum, I think maybe you want a Clio? So go and buy one.

I am feed up reading about clio's it just a newer Saxo really, Saxo was the best thing when they came out with the 106.

Was the same with 205, just evolution.

[hard_corejoeboy]

I agree. I was just saying that some cars diffusers are there for a purpose not just for looks.

[c7borg]

Great now we're back on the subject...

Even if you don't go to the extremes of a flat under belly and diffuser, but what about just cutting out the rear bumper surely once the spare wheel is removed you've effectively got an air brake even at 80mph it wouldn't it start to drag?

[hard_corejoeboy]

I don't know if anyone saw the drag civic in the latest redline mag?
He did the same thing except he cut about 6 holes in the back of his rear bumper to reduce the drag too.

His looked quite neat as they were all circular holes and as air will always take the easiest path is probably just as effective as doing what sexy_gt and that have done.

[AndySAXOp]

My rear bumper cut like sexy gt, have both so plan to change it at a track day to test A's such see if it fells different.

[kristel10589]

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

1) You are quoting something i never said
2) Why could you not get a baby travel system in the boot? There is plenty of room
3) I never said that review said the amount of downforce it produces...
4) 'So in actual fact, unless your reviewing the car yourself, reviews are in a nutshell meaningless.'

When every review i could find on the internet was positive then im inclined to believe them just a little bit.

When people that know A LOT more about driving and cars than anyone on here does i feel a bit inclined to listen. Then upon test driving said car and finding everything said about it to be true then i listen even more.

Also please refrain from getting so angry and calling me a 'toss pot' if you don't like my opinions then go somewhere else. There's no need to get pre menstrual about it now.

Anyway i know a clio 200 has a diffuser but its not really on topic it is?

EDIT:

I find the 'thanks' on here to be lol hilarious when clearly i am right but people see the need to 'thank' because someone disagreed with me. Pathetic E warriors. Shame real life is a little scarier

Iam an e-worrier? Iv gone to more shows and met more people off here then you would like to care about. Car reviewers IMHO mean nothing. If car manufacture pay more through advertising etc then there cars normally get a better review etc etc. Unless you actually have a family and tried a clio for size then i'd refrane from commenting as you have no idea. I will give you an example to show that your wrong though. We have a focus st221. the boot capacity is 385 L and we struggle majorly with just one kid. Do you know how much stuff a baby has to have to go out even for a day? the clio in comparison has 100l less at 288l. We are already struggling and looking at getting a bigger car. so you tell me how the clio is good for a family car?!

So you actually think the clio 200 is the best car you can buy?

I personally believe there are many people on here that can drive and know more about cars then average car reviewers.

Someone asked you to show the proof of the clio 200 producing the amount of downforce that you quoted, you said 'Aha found the info' and provided a link! So if that review you posted isn't backing you up, can you show evidence to back yourself up. Iam betting that the clio produces no amount of downforce that can be attributed to the diffuser.

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

To be fair though it is a Saxo forum not a clio forum, I think maybe you want a Clio? So go and buy one.

I am feed up reading about clio's it just a newer Saxo really, Saxo was the best thing when they came out with the 106.

Was the same with 205, just evolution.

+1

[kristel10589]

Originally Posted by c7borg

Great now we're back on the subject...

Even if you don't go to the extremes of a flat under belly and diffuser, but what about just cutting out the rear bumper surely once the spare wheel is removed you've effectively got an air brake even at 80mph it wouldn't it start to drag?

There is a difference between an effective diffuser and and cutting body work to reduce drag. Totally two different and seperate issues lol.

[mangojace]

As for 40 kg of downforce,where is the actual proof? Just because a reviewer says it? Oh buy the way mate my saxo produces 200 kilo yo

[hard_corejoeboy]

Performance French Car Magazine Clio 200 Review October 2009 Page 52.

I quote:

'As per the 197, found on both models is a rear diffuser. For those who look at this as a gimmick, it creates 40kg of rear downforce at 70mph and up to 70kg as speeds increase'

When said car reviewer is going to be be team mate to Walter Rohl driving a GT3 RS at the Nurburgring 24hrs i think im going to listen to him and his opinion on cars not someone thats a member of sax-p to be honest.

Anyway if we could please move on as all this thread seems to be is an attack on my beliefs and opinions.

[kristel10589]

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Performance French Car Magazine Clio 200 Review October 2009 Page 52.

I quote:

'As per the 197, found on both models is a rear diffuser. For those who look at this as a gimmick, it creates 40kg of rear downforce at 70mph and up to 70kg as speeds increase'

When said car reviewer is going to be be team mate to Walter Rohl driving a GT3 RS at the Nurburgring 24hrs i think im going to listen to him and his opinion on cars not someone thats a member of sax-p to be honest.

Anyway if we could please move on as all this thread seems to be is an attack on my beliefs and opinions.

What test equipment did they use to measure this? I can guarentee that at 70mph the rear diffuser wouldn't even be creating half the quoted downforce!

[hard_corejoeboy]

I don't know to be honest i doubt PFC tested this, i'd imagine thats what Renault have said.

No reason not to believe it i've had a good look at them underneath and they do go really far back. I'd also imagine that figure is combined with the blade front bumper.

[Mochachino]

What more proof would anyone need? :

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

i've had a good look at them underneath and they do go really far back

[hard_corejoeboy]

Originally Posted by db_sax

What more proof would anyone need? :

and this is on topic and helps how.....?

[Mochachino]

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

and this is on topic and helps how.....?

Ive already commented ealier in the thread with facts, which have been supported by other people too. Theres nothing more to say unless I want to argue with you about Clio's which I dont.

[KamRacing]

Originally Posted by kristel10589

What test equipment did they use to measure this? I can guarentee that at 70mph the rear diffuser wouldn't even be creating half the quoted downforce!

I think you are arguing the wrong point. I'm sure Renault officially tested it. The questions you should be asking is
a: Is that a lot?
b: Is that good?

Its certainly better than a car producing no downforce at all. It may be enough to make it more stable at speed which is also very nice but in isolation its all pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. The Clio 200 is a very good car to drive though I find the Clio RS engines a little boring in general.

[hard_corejoeboy]

The rs engine's are like the saxo's are they not? Nothing nothing nothing then boom boom boom change gear boom boom boom change gear...

Nothing beats a car you have to grab by the scruff of the neck and thrash for all its worth

On the stability thing i had a play with my mate's 200 on a country road and although i was keeping up nicely i was trying my utmost hardest not to get thrown off the road by all the bumps while his car looked so planted and unbothered by it all. The torque and traction coming out of corners was really noticeable too.

[DanGT]

Been trying to catch up on this thread, then I get to this page and it just an argument about Clio's! lol. In case anyone wants my opinion, they are a great car probably the best performance/fun for the cost. Anyway, back on topic.

I have been speaking with a friend who happens to have a degree in aerodynamics. He says you will never generate downforce on a saxo unless you have major body mods and even then the frontal surface area is very large, so you will need big HP to overcome the enevitable drag. All you can do is limit the lift. Its interesting that people are looking at the rear bumper and thinking, that must cause drag, but this may not be the case. The bumper may catch air and force it into a vortex, which will then pressurise that portion of the rear, and "deflect" any more air from being caught by the bumper (at certain speeds). If you cut holes in the bumper or remove the rear section you might make the problem worse, the tubulant air catches the bumper, as it isn't being pushed away by the pressurised air.

You can't test any of this unless you have a wind tunnel, and this all theoretical, but I have never seen a track saxos rear bumper cracked from doing high speeds. But I see plenty of old mondeos and escorts with broken rear bumper sections, from travelling at motorway speeds.

The whole point of aero is to try and smooth out the air behind and in front a body, and not loose too much energy turning it along the surface. Thats why newer cars have a similar angle of bonnet to windscreen (like the new fiesta/clio etc). Interestingly, the underside won't create the most drag, the rough cooling drag (from radiators) will be in the region of 20% and just the gaps in the panels will be about 10% of the total drag.

The moral of the story is without testing it, in a wind tunnel which is repeatable conditions, then you will never really know what the air is doing under the car, and therefore cannot takes steps to change it for the better. One of the first cars to be shaped according to the air was a Cobra, where they stuck ribbons all over it and watched where the air was tubulent, and then changed the shaped and retested it. So someone could do that with a camera and ribbons under there car. lol.

By the way I'm saying all of this and don't completely understand it and am probably wording it all wrong!

Cheers