Sump baffle... - Page 4 - Saxperience

Sandy309 · 4th April 2013, 18:35

If you're serious about your engine, get the Peugeot Sport one, it's the best made, works perfectly (I've never had oil surge in any of my TUs, even hillclimbers on super soft slicks going up on two wheels) and it's not that dear for the quality of what you get. We're very well kitted up for making gear like this, but it wouldn't be worth us trying to replicate it. I don't fit their rubber seal, it tends to get cut in half and pieces will head for the pick up strainer!
Otherwise, a simple baffle around the pick up neatly welded in as shown, will take about an hour to make and the reality is, TUs very rarely truly oil surge. The most common killer is excessive sealant getting into the pick up, which is often present with sandwiched baffle kits like the Constella. The welds fracture on that one too, example of one that I saw:

http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...1&postcount=27

The pick up of that engine was chock full of black sealant.

AlexB^p · 4th April 2013, 19:05

Ive used 1.5D sump gaskets so i have no sealant on my sump

Thats what constella advised me to do when fitting so sealant issues will be people ignoring that advice

Jimmy-Boy · 4th April 2013, 20:48

Fuck sake only ordered a constella one a couple of weeks ago have spent £££'s if i'd of known they were shit i would have got the pugsport one :/ should i try n get a refund and fit a pugsport?

e8_pqck · 4th April 2013, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy-Boy

Fuck sake only ordered a constella one a couple of weeks ago have spent £££'s if i'd of known they were shit i would have got the pugsport one :/ should i try n get a refund and fit a pugsport?

was thinking the same. However, i did notice the issue with the trap door clashing and staying open so im surprised they never fixed that - must be an easy fix to reposition it, especially when they were told about it some time ago.

AlexB^p · 4th April 2013, 21:39

I wouldnt say theyre shit

I have one and its serving me well
Its not clashing as far as ive noticed it hasnt got sealant issues ect

Im happy with mine tbh

Jimmy-Boy · 4th April 2013, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

I wouldnt say theyre shit

I have one and its serving me well
Its not clashing as far as ive noticed it hasnt got sealant issues ect

Im happy with mine tbh

know it appeared to look good and fit well, but in all honesty thats not what i brought it for... The link sandy produced is hardly quailty convincing!

AlexB^p · 4th April 2013, 22:16

Theres allways anomolies and things that break

Im not too concerned one broke
It didnt become totally free
And the sump breaking isnt what lead to the engine failiure that was due to the sealant that had been used to fit which rob told me on 3 occasions before i fitted mine to not do

I wont be rushing off to buy a different one tbh

Steph_at_constella · 5th April 2013, 09:11

No offence meant here sandy so please don't take it as any.

But whats to say it wasn't broken upon removal? That is a shocking amount of sealant on there, and as Alex says, we advise EVERYONE to use gaskets. To the point that I have no less than 4 sat on my shelf at any one time in case of emergencies.

We fit them to ALL our own 106 engines we build, and have no issues, never had one break on us removing them either. Or in general tbh. Look at the people who have spent masses of money on their engines who use our baffles.

Also please note we supply to MANY OTHER BUILDERS. Most recently Hiflow heads, GMC, Larton Engine Developments, Oval Race Preparation etc etc.

Also the trap door, Opens but not fully, it doesn't need to. It allows the oil into the pick up area but not out, which is what the baffle is designed to do.

wadoryu · 5th April 2013, 09:25

This is the best part of this forum, decent advice from proper users, let the debate begin

Ross^p · 5th April 2013, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy309

If you're serious about your engine, get the Peugeot Sport one, it's the best made, works perfectly (I've never had oil surge in any of my TUs, even hillclimbers on super soft slicks going up on two wheels) and it's not that dear for the quality of what you get. We're very well kitted up for making gear like this, but it wouldn't be worth us trying to replicate it. I don't fit their rubber seal, it tends to get cut in half and pieces will head for the pick up strainer!
Otherwise, a simple baffle around the pick up neatly welded in as shown, will take about an hour to make and the reality is, TUs very rarely truly oil surge. The most common killer is excessive sealant getting into the pick up, which is often present with sandwiched baffle kits like the Constella. The welds fracture on that one too, example of one that I saw:

http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...1&postcount=27

The pick up of that engine was chock full of black sealant.

So sandy what's potentially happened here is the user fitting it used excessive sealant (against Constellas direct advice), fitted it without checking the trap door operation, and at the point of removal it's possible is it not that you broke the welds levering the baffle against the excess sealant. Is that plausible?

And with the greatest of respect, the Constella baffles are in a lot more engines that genuine Peugeot sport items - even if 1% of baffles had a problem you'll see five times as many faults with Constellas one if they sell five times more than Peugeot sport.

All I can say from personal experience is mine has served me fine. It's been on and off three times now, and is protecting an engine that would cost many thousands of pounds to replace. I have piece of mind. But then again - my baffle wasn't fitted by someone who can't follow instructions and is devoid of all common sense...

jsdvtr · 5th April 2013, 11:51

I was thinking about getting a constella one once i have some more money.

Alex where did you get the diesel gasket from? Peugeot? Sounds better than worrying about if sealed the sump ok.

Steph_at_constella · 5th April 2013, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

I was thinking about getting a constella one once i have some more money.

Alex where did you get the diesel gasket from? Peugeot? Sounds better than worrying about if sealed the sump ok.

He got them from me and ended up using 4 as he somehow managed to fuck the first two up! haha

Jimmy-Boy · 5th April 2013, 12:04

Very reassuring posts from both steph and ross, can't wait to get out on track and try it now!

jsdvtr · 5th April 2013, 15:17

Think i may order a constella one towards the end of getting the car running.

Hiow much are the gaskets on there own? May use these rather than sealant allthough ive just fitted it back on haha.

Steph_at_constella · 5th April 2013, 15:47

I do gaskets at £16.50 each.

Good quality none of this falls apart shite you get with some gaskets now

Ross^p · 5th April 2013, 16:00

FYI - my sump is on with sealant not gaskets. But like I said, was built by a race engine builder not a chef competing in the Great British Bake Off.

If it came off again (and I bloody hope it doesn't have to anytime soon) I'd probably use the paper gaskets myself as I don't know my own limits.

Sandy309 · 6th April 2013, 06:42

Each weld is about half an inch long and should be able to take the compressive load of a flat blade screwdriver beneath it, but either way you can clearly see that the breakage is not recent. This engine had a HFH head, which is another story, so possibly supplied by them, I don't have any information on who assembled it. This engine didn't actually fail, but clearly if the other tags had broken free, all hell would have broken lose. There is another case that did result in engine failure, that I know Constella are aware of where the pick up became blocked and in a terrible irony, starved the engine of oil.

The choice thankfully exists and there are clearly people here who believe straw poll statistics override any design or quality issues and that's fine for them and "MANY OTHER BUILDERS", but not for me I'm afraid. Hopefully most people will appreciate this information being given, even if it they don't wish to be guided by it.

jpsaxo · 6th April 2013, 08:18

I think the term "fit and forget" is best used here. With the pugsport you just fit it and forget about it as its fixed in place and doesn't require sealant which *potentially* could cause issues.

At the end of the day building reliability into an engine build is about removing as many whats,if's and buts as possible - the pugsport does this.

AlexB^p · 6th April 2013, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph_at_constella

He got them from me and ended up using 4 as he somehow managed to fuck the first two up! haha

I only fucked up 1
I was trying to be clever and maneuver it round without removing the baffle lol
Bought 2 more so i had a spare
Thats now in the nanaGTI

As for the debate about them
I fit and forgot mine
Pretty sure ross wasnt really checking his
I know at least 4 or 5 people with them and all are ok

Its a case of if theres 5 times more of a product on the market you will see 5 times more failiures
I know of a lot more constella sumps out there than pugsports
It doesnt make them worse

As for this re occuring comments about sealant being the main issue

CONSTELLA SAY DO NOT USE SEALANT USE THE 106 DIESEL SUMP GASKETS
Rob told me several times before i fitted mine to my engine

Tbh i would rather trust constella over other companies ive dealt with
And compared to a sump ive seen done by DES developments i have recipts for over 200 quid for tbh the constella item is a bargain... lol

Ross^p · 6th April 2013, 11:27

Yeah it's safe to say mine was fitted, and then forgotten about until this debate came up

that's fit and forget surely?

I'm pushing well in excess of 400bhp this year and Its safe to say I've not scrimped on parts. The difference in cost of the Peugeot sport item and the Constella one is negligible.

If I didn't fit a Peugeot sport one correctly I'd not then post up a thread slagging off Peugeot sport Sandy - and I'm a little surprised to see you do that to Constella to be honest.