using SMARTBOX - Saxperience

pug106turbo · 2nd December 2002, 02:06

I can get this fitted to my motor and wanted to know if it will work the same as a MF2 and Signal conditioner . Also can i just uprate the injectors and use the below to correct fuelling instead of using a 5th injector with turbo

The SmartBox alters the ignition curve by interrupting and re-timing the crank position signal going to the ECU. Fuelling is altered by interrupting and modifying an analogue signal also going to the ECU, such as the signal from the air-mass-meter. The changes made to these signals are based on 3-dimensional maps, or tables, of values stored in memory inside the SmartBox. The exact value to use is determined by the combination of engine speed and engine load at any given moment. Engine load is referenced from a separate analogue signal input, such as throttle position or manifold pressure. We initially "program" the smartbox via dedicated software on the P.C. while running on the Dynamometer.

Simo^p · 2nd December 2002, 03:42

This Smartbox sounds more ike an equivalent to the Dastek unichip.

Yes, you will be able to use it sort out your ignition timing and fuelling (It will probably control extra fuel injectors too).

The reason why most people now use the Mf2 and a sig con is....

The MF2 is capable of sorting the fuel, simply... you can adjust it yourself and there is no need for expensive laptop/rolling road tuning for little tweaks, etc as the map needs to be changed.

The sigcon unit however is used for a different purpose, which I DONT think the smartbox will even attempt to do. The sigcon is used to fool your std ecu. It basically allows you to retain lambda control when cruising and part throttle, based around a boost pressure threshold.

Does any of this make sesnse?

Put simply, you could use the smartbox instead of an Mf2 ,but it would cost more to setup and maintain. The smartbox will not duplicate the functions of a sigcon.

Simo'

pug106turbo · 2nd December 2002, 04:11

Yeah it does make sence

I am going to have a chat with the guy about it 2morrow and I will let you know on what he says

Anything that i should ask him while there

What am doing is fitting all the turbo parts and then putting car on trailer and then towing it to this guy and he is putting silicone hoses on and Using that smartbox

Simo^p · 2nd December 2002, 16:10

You don't "need" to use a sigcon unit... however I would ask this guy if the smartbox has a stand alone MAP sensor. You will be needing one of these. If it doesnt have one, you'd best look into getting one too.

You'll get virtually no adjustment in fuelling if you try and use the standard MAP sensor.

In the early days, I ran my turbo conversion on a Dastek with integrated MAP sensor... no other gadgets, and it was pretty cool!

Simo'

pug106turbo · 2nd December 2002, 16:17

How much does one of them map sensers cost SIMO

Simo^p · 2nd December 2002, 16:25

You can get a decent MAP sensor from somewhere like Demon Tweeks, etc...

Youre gonna be looking at something like a 2bar MAP sensor, as there isnt gonna be a need for a 3 bar sensor i wouldnt have thought. Check the demon tweeks catalogue, but I think they're about £60.

Simo'

pug106turbo · 2nd December 2002, 16:29

So if it doesnt use a standalone map senser I have to go and buy a 2BAr mapsenser and then i can map the fuelling etc using the SMARTBOX and should work good if done correct

Simo^p · 2nd December 2002, 17:40

Yes.... as long as the smartbox will interface with the standalone MAP sensor. Which it should as its just a voltage input.

BUT, if you get the fuelling right on the conversion, you will not need to advance or retard the ignition timing... so you may ask what advantage a smartbox would offer over an MF2??

How much is the smartbox? An Mf2 is £200 and you can set it up easily.. and make adjustments yourself if needs be?

Just considering other options?

Simo'

Keir · 2nd December 2002, 18:05

Get the MF2, you know it makes sense.

pug106turbo · 2nd December 2002, 23:19

So your saying I can just use a MF2 controller to map the fuel then instead of the smartbox

Simo^p · 2nd December 2002, 23:21

Yes...

Currently I have a Dastek wired in.. which is doing absolutely nothing to the fuelling or timing.

The MF2 and new MAP sensor look after all of the fuelling. The sigcon looks after the lambda system and stops the std ecu from logging a MAP sensor fault.

Simo'

pug106turbo · 2nd December 2002, 23:25

Could i run the car just with mf2 and map senser also will the mf2 control all 4 injectors

Also I will have to wait until after xmas for the MF2 now but just to get the car running etc could i just fit a djustable fuel regulater and a Air/Fuel gauge and adjust if running lean or rich just for short term and also will boost lowest possible

Just a Idea as i live so far away from any tuners and rollers

@brain · 6th December 2002, 00:45

Is the standalone MAP sensor also connect with the st ECU or is the st MAP sensor still working whit the ECU.

Bryan.

Simo^p · 6th December 2002, 00:55

The setup would be to use a GMC sig con unit to read the standard map sensor and feed confused signals to the ecu.

A standalone MAP sensor would also be used, which works independantly of the ecu and simply passes its signals through to the new fuel computer.

SImo'

@brain · 6th December 2002, 01:12

Can you use the Apexi S-AFC too confus the singnals from your st MAP sensor.

Bryan

Simo^p · 6th December 2002, 01:18

No, the AFC simply controls the duty of the fuel injectors...

It is a neat bit of kit though.. <img src= "smileys/grin.gif">

Simo'

@brain · 6th December 2002, 01:30

So you need too fit the GMC conf only too keep ECU happy and it`s not gone stressss out.

Bryan.

Simo^p · 6th December 2002, 01:33

Yeah, I ran my engine without a sigcon for ages... it just makes a better job of the conversion, but not essential.

Simo'

pug106turbo · 6th December 2002, 04:14

If you wait until spring time 2003 there is a new kind of dastek unichip coming out which has a built in sigcon and will only cost about £100 more than a standard Unichip

axsaxoman · 17th January 2003, 00:41

What SIMO says is correct ,to a point, about the sig con. it also disconnects the lambda control when on boost,so it doesn,t try to take out the fuel you have just added. Also when using 2bar sensor with sig con it sends the correct signal to ecu ,but allows what ever other fuelling device to see the raw signal from non std map sensor. If you try and use std map sensor ,even for std ecu ,it will eventually fail, then you will still have to buy a new one ,there are other functions on the sig con 3 as well,like water injection control,or nitrous control relative to boost and or inlet temp,so it means that you can set No2 to only come in above a cettain boost ,nothing to do with throttle postion ,thus helping to cut wheelspin and saving a lot of gas. when used with s/c it becomes even more economical ,as you will only achieve the user set boost level ( say 2psi below max )when the rpm is near max power ,so it means you will get a very controllable car ,plus you will only use small amounts of the gas because when it comes in the rpm will rise to max in a very short time ,so the usage is very small.and anyway whats the point of having an extra 75bhp in second gear at full throttle when all its gonna go is spin wheels ,you can do that without the no2 if the car is set right anyway. the real reason for using the sig con is to make the car more drivable ,no ecu fault lights and possible going on to limp mode(newr type cars ,not just citroen) and allow easy and economic setting up. there are newer type cars whcih you will never get to run right without using this unit ,thats why ,i had to spend months developing it.

I am a unichip agent and have been promised this new unit for last 12 months ,It will come ,but i wouldn,t hold your breath for it

And even when it does come the price will be such that it will be no cheaper ,plus any adjustments will require a trip to rollers and associated costs.

astd unchip fitted is approx £400 ,add the £100 ,then vat and probavly more labour time ,and no self adjustment. you make the decision which is best ,or indeed more use to you . my units are not ecu specific so can br fitted to any after market turbo/super charger installation

there is no unit made by anyone that can fulfill the requirements of a retro fit turbo /supercharger as well as this .there are also other channels that can be used to switch other devices ,relative to boost /tempature.If have need to turn something on or off relative to an engine signal then it can probably do it