Saxo Engine/Performance If you're interested in tuning Saxo engines, or if you need to know something which is engine related... this is the place for you. |
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5th September 2011, 22:20
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#1
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 3,415
Car(s): Old: Two Tone VTR
New: C2 VTS Code
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Turbo, Carbs, Throttle Bodies, Boost???
I'm reading peoples progress threads more and more and coming across all different types of ways to improve power.
I'm completely lost when it comes to this kind of stuff and have no idea what the pro's and cons of each of these modifications are.
I know what a turbo does, but how does it compare to say T/b or carbs?
Can someone explain what they all do, pros and cons and what you'd use them for?
I've tried reading this long mashoosive thread but it still doesn't explain everything.
Thanks
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5th September 2011, 22:21
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#2
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Established Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: torquay (England)
Posts: 1,993
Car(s): supercharged vts. 1.1 saxo. accord type r
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throttlebodies make a nice sound, boost makes you go quicker.
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vts, the futures bright the futures boost
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliderz
your car wipes mine out , any day . looking good
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush
lady charger ftw in this case
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5th September 2011, 22:23
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#3
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Aycliffe
Posts: 32,205
Car(s): Saxo VTS
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I'm ignoring carbs.
t/b's probably the least beneficial given the £/hp - but has the 'easier' upgrade path.
Buy car, put camz in, run along for bit, do the exhaust and the induction in time, then pop on the tb's and the then add the ecu. Sorted.
Turbo/supercharger - more costs involved from the start, but more power gained - not withstanding the life of other components (gearbox for instance)
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5th September 2011, 22:25
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#4
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 3,415
Car(s): Old: Two Tone VTR
New: C2 VTS Code
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So how do you get 'boost'? and exactly what does it do/ how does it work
throttle bodies just make a nice sound, i'm guessing more torque/ quicker acceleration?. How would that compare to a turbo?
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5th September 2011, 22:26
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#5
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 6,719
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Carbs = black and white technology
Throttle bodies = too much money
Boost = best bhp per £
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5th September 2011, 22:28
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#6
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 6,719
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Boost is generated by supercharger or turbo, they are called forced induction because they make 'air' and push it through your throttle bodie, while the standard engine sucks in air from the air filter
Turbo works of exhaust gases and supercharger runs of the engine by a belt
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5th September 2011, 22:30
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#7
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Aycliffe
Posts: 32,205
Car(s): Saxo VTS
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with tb's you're pretty much limited by engine capacity - so there is a finite amount of power the engine can develop before you hit the limit of emissions and that for MOT.
With a turbo, because you're forcing more air in you're not limited to engine size in the same your are with tb's.
With boost you need a turbo/super charger. Super charging is probably the easier route. The charger needs to be connected to the air intake, and thus force more engine into the engine.
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5th September 2011, 22:30
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#8
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Established Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 1,206
Car(s): 106 Rallye Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logic_guy
So how do you get 'boost'? and exactly what does it do/ how does it work
throttle bodies just make a nice sound, i'm guessing more torque/ quicker acceleration?. How would that compare to a turbo?
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engine tuning comes down to one thing... making a bigger bang. To make abigger bang you need more air. Carbs and ITB's suck a bit more air in but unless matched with cams headwork etc don't pull in that much more are. Boosting by turbo or supercharger, in it's most simplistic form just rams more air into your engine, you then make allowance by more fuel and easy as that more power.
As everyone says bang for buck boost is the way forward, but boost is alot more complicated.
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SHEFFCRUISE < The biggest modified car club in sheffield
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5th September 2011, 22:31
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#9
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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Turbo uses exhaust gas to spool up a turbine which drives a compressor which forces air into the engine more air + more fuel = more power.
Supercharger does the same but is belt driven by the engine so whereas you will get lag with a turbo (as it needs exhaust gas to get going) with a supercharger the response is instant but you lose some power as the engine needs to 'power' it and its 'runs out of puff higher up the revs whereas the turbo will keep going.
Throttle bodies give you 4 throttle bodies basically one for each cyclinder main benefits are noise and throttle response and speed. Not as much power as turbo or supercharger will give you though.
Quick simple explanation there
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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5th September 2011, 22:31
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#10
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rutland
Posts: 487
Car(s): Saxo desire 1.1 2002, no mods.
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buy the latest fast car, explains all of this
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5th September 2011, 22:32
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#11
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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Oh you forgot one thing. Brakes and tyres and suspension and tuition this will give you more 'power' than any turbo conversion.
With this you can beat BMW M3's with 140bhp even without knowing the track and taking the wrong line
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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Last edited by hard_corejoeboy; 5th September 2011 at 22:36.
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5th September 2011, 22:35
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#12
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: newcastlle
Posts: 286
Car(s): 1989 astra gte 16v turbo
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boost or nothing lol
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5th September 2011, 22:35
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#13
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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Power is nothing without control
Best bang for buck?
Buying a shit load of fireworks and attaching them to the car..or treading on an IED
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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Last edited by hard_corejoeboy; 5th September 2011 at 22:39.
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5th September 2011, 22:41
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#14
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 3,415
Car(s): Old: Two Tone VTR
New: C2 VTS Code
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Thanks guys.
Great explanations there, i've thanked many.
I'm guessing with Turbo/ super charger, you'd need an upgraded crank shaft, bearings, pistons and piston rods?
If it is fast road that i'd be looking for, super charger would be ideal as its instant response?
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5th September 2011, 22:44
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#15
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Established Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 1,206
Car(s): 106 Rallye Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logic_guy
Thanks guys.
Great explanations there, i've thanked many.
I'm guessing with Turbo/ super charger, you'd need an upgraded crank shaft, bearings, pistons and piston rods?
If it is fast road that i'd be looking for, super charger would be ideal as its instant response?
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No. For boost you need forged pistons and rods if you plan on doing big boost. Depends how much power your after.
Agree with S/C bieng instant and more usable power but T/C is more manly
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SHEFFCRUISE < The biggest modified car club in sheffield
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5th September 2011, 22:47
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#16
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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5th September 2011, 22:49
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#17
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 6,719
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Best way of learning about turbos if you have no experience is getting a car that is already turbod from the factory then build one if you wanted at a later date when you have the knowledge you need
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5th September 2011, 22:51
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#18
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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I think the most important thing is being able to go as fast as you can with the power you have.
When i had a VTR with 100bhp i wanted a car with 200bhp as i though that was what i needed to go fast.
FALSE all i needed was to be able to drive properly
I've learnt more about FWD in my 75bhp standard 5 door 106 than i ever did in my old car.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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5th September 2011, 22:53
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#19
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 6,719
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B8s ftw
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5th September 2011, 22:54
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#20
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
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13 inch wheels and ditchfinders in the wet ftw!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
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