Reducing understeer?

[steffeen]

Hello,
I'm running a Citroen Saxo VTS 8v 2001 with 98 hp for short tracks, never daily driven.

I am looking to reduce understeer, currently running default suspension setup, with Nankang NS-2R semi slicks and lower strut brace.

The car is understeering alot! I need to reduce this alot,
Any ideas where to start?
The tyre preasure is 31 psi in front/rear.

I need advices to reduce my understeer on track,

Which tyre pressure, and can i do anything else to get it better?

[MartinObviously]

Originally Posted by steffeen

Hello,
I'm running a Citroen Saxo VTS 8v 2001 with 98 hp for short tracks, never daily driven.

I am looking to reduce understeer, currently running default suspension setup, with Nankang NS-2R semi slicks and lower strut brace.

The car is understeering alot! I need to reduce this alot,
Any ideas where to start?
The tyre preasure is 31 psi in front/rear.

I need advices to reduce my understeer on track,

Which tyre pressure, and can i do anything else to get it better?

Soften the front or stiffen the rear.

Standard suspension rarely causes understeer unless you're accelerating too hard in the corners.

[welshpug]

slow down more, accelerate out.

[welshpug]

also get a diff and try less pressure.

[steffeen]

Would it be better to remove the lower strut egen? And maybe run 25 psi front 27 psi rearr?

[Chipwizards]

Don't 'brake then release then turn', brake later but not as hard, and keep some brake force on until the apex. Doing that tips tyre load forwards but obviously the mass doesn't move, which gives the front more grip and reduces rear grip.

Be careful about how much rotation you invoke, because the resulting oversteer isn't as easy to fix.

There's bound to be some in-car footage of somebody competitive in a FWD touring car, a Clio cup etc and watch their inputs on pedals and steering, you'll see what I mean.

See if you can get the use of a car park and some cones and do some experimenting.

Improvements in your driving will be with you forever; improvements to your car are gone when it's left your ownership.

[steffeen]

Originally Posted by steffeen

Would it be better to remove the lower strut egen? And maybe run 25 psi front 27 psi rearr?

Remove the strut again*

[welshpug]

no, you dont want more flex.

[steffeen]

Ok How do i stiften the rear? Without changing torsion bars
New dampers?
And Can you recommend any budget dampers ehich Will perform good

[Manu]

yank the steering while cornering, lift off oversteer.

[AdamL200]

You must be carrying way to much speed into the corner, slow down into corners then build your speed as you go round, slow in fast out

[steffeen]

The speed into the corner is not that great - yet could be lower but im still getting way worse lap times than other similar cars.

Anyone know how to stiffen the rear? Which dampers is recommended, on a budget?

[AdamL200]

How old are your tyres and what are they, tyres can make more of a difference than you’d think,and Don’t mean to cause any offence, but maybe it’s your ability

[ESD1711]

Chuck your NS2-R's in the bin.

For track use the only Nankang worth mentioning is the AR-1.

This wont totally eliminate your understeer, but you'll certainly have a load more grip with the AR-1 than with the NS2-R.

I generally aim for 30psi hot for my tyre pressures, if you want to make the back end more lively, maybe chuck a bit more air in the backs. I know a few of the mini racing guys up here who run around 40psi on the rears to get the back moving about a bit.

Personally though, 30 all round has always worked pretty good for me as a basepoint - remember though that setting them to 30 before you go out means they'll jump significantly whilst out on track particularly on a warm day. Check your pressures as soon as you come in from a session and set them at that point.

Maybe also look at wheel alignment as well?

[steffeen]

Originally Posted by AdamL200

How old are your tyres and what are they, tyres can make more of a difference than you’d think,and Don’t mean to cause any offence, but maybe it’s your ability

The NS-2R are like 2 months old, ran 2 days on the track .

[steffeen]

Originally Posted by ESD1711

Chuck your NS2-R's in the bin.

For track use the only Nankang worth mentioning is the AR-1.

This wont totally eliminate your understeer, but you'll certainly have a load more grip with the AR-1 than with the NS2-R.

I generally aim for 30psi hot for my tyre pressures, if you want to make the back end more lively, maybe chuck a bit more air in the backs. I know a few of the mini racing guys up here who run around 40psi on the rears to get the back moving about a bit.

Personally though, 30 all round has always worked pretty good for me as a basepoint - remember though that setting them to 30 before you go out means they'll jump significantly whilst out on track particularly on a warm day. Check your pressures as soon as you come in from a session and set them at that point.

Maybe also look at wheel alignment as well?

I cant use Nankang AR-1, the tyre need to be e-marked. The alternatives are Yokohama AD08r or Toyo.
I have lowered my tyre pressure now, will see on friday if it works out.

[elliotthorwood]

Originally Posted by steffeen

I cant use Nankang AR-1, the tyre need to be e-marked. The alternatives are Yokohama AD08r or Toyo.
I have lowered my tyre pressure now, will see on friday if it works out.

The AR-1 are e-marked for road use

[steffeen]

Okay.. didnt know that at the time i bought ns-2r.
I think i will run them down tho' .. Any ideas on tyre pressure?

[steffeen]

Im on my way to buy the new dampers but i cant decide.

Should i go with Spax dampers, Gaz adjustable or some bilstein citroen motorsport dampers? Which would be preferable for stiffness on short circuit tracks?

The bilstein is twice as expensive as GAZ.

[keshymarkyz]

All of those tectums are marketing and making things right on down town