dry sump system

[axsaxoman]

how many would be interested in a purpose built dry sump system for the TU series of engines
No body makes one so was considering designing one in conjuction with ATP
cost will be similar to those made for other cars
circa £1000-£1300 ,which is close as i can get at this stage

[Rossp]

If be interested, pending price john.

[jpsaxo]

Can we have the advantages and disadvantages of running these John?

[axsaxoman]

the system has a two pumps in one unit
one is pressure feed ,the other is a scavenge pump which sucks all oil from sump and keeps sump virtually dry at all times

disavantages first

you will have an oil tank inside the car somewhere
and more plumbing to and from the tank and a remote filter unit usually.

oil will take longer to getup to temp ,if you consider that a disadvantage,if so fit a thermostat

more cost in oil change .

costs money

more weight overall than std system

advantages

very ,very stable oil temp+ pressure

extra oil capacity

built in windage tray

no oil surge or starvation ever

less crank case breathing,as no oil to slosh about and crank will never be hitting oil in sump
more power as less parasitic drag of oil hitting crank

more power probably as this system will be very high flow rate ,but never over pressure ,so less power to drive system especially at very high rpms

more space under engine as sump will be tight to bottom of block ,there will be the pump unit at cam end of engine + some plumbing to go to oil tank.

possibility of having different exhaust manifold and have it sitting tighter to sump and although there will be a pump unit at cam end of sump that should allow a much better exhaust manifold layout ,smoother bends and use of larger primary sizes + collector especilly when using a 4-2-1 with long primaries to gain some torque back at mid range rpm with high rpm (9k) n/a engines with better ground clearance .

would allow sump gaurd to be higher on rally car

more ground clearance

much better oil return in turbo cars as there will never be any backing up of oil return to sump

would allow lower fitment of turbo unit and still allow good oil return + different primary lengths + shapes to turbo + fitment closer to block ( manifold could look more like a n/a 4-1 unit)

centre line of turbo could be be as low as just above the lower edge of std block which would probably give more clearance to water rad + maybe some more air cooling ot turbo unit from under the car

wil also allow better turbo exhaust outlet fitment both in direction and size --oil filter housing could totally removed and oil passage ways blocked if using remote filter unit


fitment of a pre engine start oil pressure system is easy with a dry sump system as is the use of a laminar water/oil inline heat exchanger ,if you wanted to get rid of the std type oil cooler which can be hard to find a place to fit it in the air flow ,this would also warm your oil up quicker from cold start

[welshpug]

no reason why a tank cannot be fitted in the engine bay.

[jpsaxo]

Interesting points John, thanks for explaining

[axsaxoman]

finding space to accomodate a suitably tall tank to allow air seperation of the returned oil in the engine bay would not be easy I think

[adamskiTNR]

Can't think of anywhere suitable. And it would be nice to move the additional weight away from the front anyway. There is a lot of weight in the tank, the oil (0.85kg/L) and the pumps/filters. etc. You will only find a dry sump system necessary if you are in specific need of any of the above advantages, in all other cases it will only harm performance by adding weight and complexity.

[axsaxoman]

behind n/s h.lamp similar to washer tank om other side but coming through the inner wing to get the height + volume
beter stiil swop washer bottle to n/s and have it on off side .
I would mount it insdie the car
used to be in the boot on my mk1 1300 bda escort--that reved to 11000rpm -- virtually no crankcase pressure at all