DJ's who have tracks engineered for them ? WTF.

[Carlvtr88]

I thought the whole point of being a musician is to learn how to DJ, then produce your own stuff. You know, Put some effort in.


Seems not. Lately I've realised that there are a shitload of guys out there, paying someone £60 - 100 to have a track made for them.

WTF ?

Is it me, or is that completely and utterly cheating.

" Hey man, check out MY latest track "

" Wow, nice beat man, did you produce this " ?

" Yeah, its my best work yet ".

Going through your whole music career lying to yourself and others ?

Agree, disagree ? .... Discuss.

[SH1TBIRD]

DJ's aren't musicians !

They just play records/cd's/mp3's

What on earth were you thinking when you typed that out ?


Are you talking about well known "artists" or lads down at the youth club ?

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

DJ's aren't musicians !

They just play records/cd's/mp3's

What on earth were you thinking when you typed that out ?


Are you talking about well known "artists" or lads down at the youth club ?

I'm a DJ mate, so you're saying i'm not a musician ?

If a DJ produces his own music then of course he is a musician.

I'm talking about DJ's who want to break into music industry and release tracks but don't produce them themselves. I'm basically saying I don't get it.

It's like Hamilton claiming to be a good driver and asking the stig to stand in for him on race day.

[SH1TBIRD]

DJ's play other people's music mate !

Where is the art in that ?


Feeding off another man's bun , that's what that is



A producer , on the other hand , is something quite different .


It's so easy to fire up ableton / reason / fl , and knock out some presets !

What is your definition of a musician then ?

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

A producer , on the other hand , is something quite different .


It's so easy to fire up ableton / reason / fl , and knock out some presets !

What is your definition of a musician then ?

Well, I partly agree with you. However, saying " its easier to knock out some presets " would have been a better argument.

If you could open up Reason 6/5 and knock out some presets for me and get it sounding good then be my guest. I know you haven't claimed to be a producer, but I think my point stands.
Your making it sound as if you just line up some pre recorded stuff and you have a full song.

Its not just about pressing buttons and you have a song, its about having a trained ear to know how to mix sounds aswell.

Its about knowing what sounds go with what and learning your frequencies.

A DJ alone, i agree wouldn't class as a musician as such, because they just hit play using other peoples music, however, even then, beat matching is a technique in itself.

I produce, I can make my own noises and always do, i never use presets.
I play the drums very well and DJ. I know my frequencies and have developed my own mixing technique. All gained over about 8 years.

Do i not classify as a musician would you say ?

[Ryanp]

Not being funny but it's pretty common for people to use sound engineers.

Dave Parkinson has made a career out of it in his days since the happy Mondays.

Sasha - has now started to admit to using an engineer a lot.

I could name many names, some are friends who either produce and use engineers or vice versa. An angineer doesn't just out the whole thing together, they tweak it a touch and give a slightly different form of creative input.

Originally Posted by Carlvtr88

I thought the whole point of being a musician is to learn how to DJ, then produce your own stuff. You know, Put some effort in.


Seems not. Lately I've realised that there are a shitload of guys out there, paying someone £60 - 100 to have a track made for them.

WTF ?

Is it me, or is that completely and utterly cheating.

" Hey man, check out MY latest track "

" Wow, nice beat man, did you produce this " ?

" Yeah, its my best work yet ".

Going through your whole music career lying to yourself and others ?

Agree, disagree ? .... Discuss.

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

DJ's play other people's music mate !

Where is the art in that ?


Feeding off another man's bun , that's what that is

A good dj knows how to work a crowd, can match loops and various other skills..

A shit dj plays the beat port top 100 bangers when they're warming up for the headliner...

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Not being funny but it's pretty common for people to use sound engineers.

Dave Parkinson has made a career out of it in his days since the happy Mondays.

Sasha - has now started to admit to using an engineer a lot.

I could name many names, some are friends who either produce and use engineers or vice versa. An angineer doesn't just out the whole thing together, they tweak it a touch and give a slightly different form of creative input.

It may work differently with bigger names mate. I appreciate that. Plus those bigger names, whether they're actually on the buttons themselves or not, probably know what they want and have an idea of what goes into it.

What i'm saying is there are an increasing number of people, who start DJing for a month of Sundays, then buy a few engineered tracks and think they're the next Tiesto.

All i'm saying is, where is the drive to actually learn yourself and have a go. I can't see it in any other way, because my brain tells me its completely cheating and you'd be lying everytime you said, listen to MY latest banger.

I bet these people don't mention that they have paid for the beat.

Why don't people want to put the time in these days ?

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by Ryan

A good dj knows how to work a crowd, can match loops and various other skills..

A shit dj plays the beat port top 100 bangers when they're warming up for the headliner...

Agree'd. 90%

However everyone starts somewhere. Tiesto wasnt born a DJ. I'm sure there were times when he warmed up for someone else and people thought he was shit.

Its all about learning and putting time in getting knock backs and taking it on board and then moving forward. Reinforcing my point of, some people who buy tracks pre-engineered, clearly can't be arsed to learn or put effort in.

[Ryanp]

There's still a lot of people pushing the limits at the ottom end of the market, investing every penny in home studios etc.. But as with anything you will always have wannabes (like the kids at school who always had the new Adidas predators but couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo'

Fact is the industry at the moment has two real levels.. 1 the producers - and really unless you're producing huge tracks like say arty did with Matt zo you won't really get anywhere..

Then you have ticket sellers, they play venues like say ministry by selling tickets and playing in the two rooms no one really gives a damn about. But hey you get to brag you play ministry lol.....

Now onto engineered tracks, in order to really make it you need that tracke signed to a decent label. Let's say toolroom/ultra - now if you've nicked a load of loops and other stuff the chances of it going through their licencing department are about as likely as meeting a 28 year old lingerie model who's a virgin and wants you to fuck her ass for her first time in the sack...

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by Carlvtr88

Agree'd. 90%

However everyone starts somewhere. Tiesto wasnt born a DJ. I'm sure there were times when he warmed up for someone else and people thought he was shit.

Its all about learning and putting time in getting knock backs and taking it on board and then moving forward. Reinforcing my point of, some people who buy tracks pre-engineered, clearly can't be arsed to learn or put effort in.

Doesn't matter if you are known or not a good dj knows what they're doing... I've cringed and even seen djs pulled off stage for smashing the recent top tunes of the headliners to fuel their own ego when instead they had been booked to play 130<bpm prog/tech house for instance.

A good dj should still be able to work a crowd without dropping tracks like say levels after 10 mins of doors.

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by Ryan

There's still a lot of people pushing the limits at the ottom end of the market, investing every penny in home studios etc.. But as with anything you will always have wannabes (like the kids at school who always had the new Adidas predators but couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo'

Fact is the industry at the moment has two real levels.. 1 the producers - and really unless you're producing huge tracks like say arty did with Matt zo you won't really get anywhere..

Then you have ticket sellers, they play venues like say ministry by selling tickets and playing in the two rooms no one really gives a damn about. But hey you get to brag you play ministry lol.....

Now onto engineered tracks, in order to really make it you need that tracke signed to a decent label. Let's say toolroom/ultra - now if you've nicked a load of loops and other stuff the chances of it going through their licencing department are about as likely as meeting a 28 year old lingerie model who's a virgin and wants you to fuck her ass for her first time in the sack...

Agree with that. Phaha. However, you say huge tracks..... A huge track isnt necessarily something massively complicated. Its just catchy and promoted so much that sometimes you are conditioned to like it. Radio does that very well.

At the moment i'm making bits n bobs of everything, some of it shit. Some of it is good. I've spent 8 years using reason, Only now, since picking up 6.5 and using the SSL mixer, i've started to really get a proper balance to my masters.

Doesn't matter to me though, at the moment for me its all about experiencing different genres and constantly moving forward.

All i made this whole thread for is basically generating a chit chat about how some people just want a quick ride into the scene. When there are others who you might not hear about a lot now, that will be massive in time to come. They're the ones who put the work in and deserve the rewards.

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Doesn't matter if you are known or not a good dj knows what they're doing... I've cringed and even seen djs pulled off stage for smashing the recent top tunes of the headliners to fuel their own ego when instead they had been booked to play 130<bpm prog/tech house for instance.

A good dj should still be able to work a crowd without dropping tracks like say levels after 10 mins of doors.

I can imagine....

I know what you mean. If i was booked for something, i'd play what i was booked for. For instance I have a 60's and 70's gig next week. Should be interesing. I'll have to judge how long it is before I bring some Rod Stewart in LOL.


I just meant that, everyone starts somewhere. Even if the warm up DJ is good, because he isnt playing the bangers, people might immediately cast him off. When he's just doing what hes been booked for.

[Manu]

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

DJ's aren't musicians !

They just play records/cd's/mp3's

I can't help but think how deeply idiotic that statement is. Why don't you buy a turntable, press play and see if you can come up with something anywhere near this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP-86de-oUA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlYkhTyiYDA


Good luck


Now you're still partly right in the sense that there's a shitload of kids out there with a laptop and a controller. And all they do is autosync the top 40 because the fact is, they can't mix instant coffee with water. Or work a crowd etc...

[blackie_2k5]

Good dj

[SH1TBIRD]

Originally Posted by Manu

I can't help but think how deeply idiotic that statement is. Why don't you buy a turntable, press play and see if you can come up with something anywhere near this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP-86de-oUA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlYkhTyiYDA


Good luck


Now you're still partly right in the sense that there's a shitload of kids out there with a laptop and a controller. And all they do is autosync the top 40 because the fact is, they can't mix instant coffee with water. Or work a crowd etc...

On the subject of deeply idiotic statements , Manu rears it's ugly head !

DJ's are Technicians NOT Musicians

FFS , they have smoke machines in their kitlist !

Both those video's demonstrate a technical mastering of electrical equipement , that's all !

There is no musical talent there at all , a keen ear , yes , an ability to match a beat , yes . Mind you , you're all using beatcounters these days most bits of gear have bpm counters !

It's comical really , I've been producing music for twenty five years , since the dawn of the first home computers.

So knocking out a remix of someone else's shit , is no different to getting another person to knock you up a track and you saying it's yours !

I await the usual torrent of juvenile response

[Carlvtr88]

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

On the subject of deeply idiotic statements , Manu rears it's ugly head !

DJ's are Technicians NOT Musicians

FFS , they have smoke machines in their kitlist !

Both those video's demonstrate a technical mastering of electrical equipement , that's all !

There is no musical talent there at all , a keen ear , yes , an ability to match a beat , yes . Mind you , you're all using beatcounters these days most bits of gear have bpm counters !

It's comical really , I've been producing music for twenty five years , since the dawn of the first home computers.

So knocking out a remix of someone else's shit , is no different to getting another person to knock you up a track and you saying it's yours !

I await the usual torrent of juvenile response

Whilst i get what you mean regarding techies / Musicians etc., I feel like we're going a little off point.

Also, I feel the remix comment is a little harsh. If you're talking about stems, then absolutely. Line em up and remix, is not remixing in my eyes.

I think however, to actually get a track and use only the accapella, then create a brand new tempo and rhythm is a completely different game.

[SH1TBIRD]

Originally Posted by Carlvtr88

Whilst i get what you mean regarding techies / Musicians etc., I feel like we're going a little off point.

I think however, to actually get a track and use only the accapella, then create a brand new tempo and rhythm is a completely different game.

Absolutely , I concur , that's where an individuals creative spirit blossoms !

[Carlvtr88]

I think people are kinda, over thinkin my point in this thread tbh.

Literally all i'm saying is, you're a DJ, you wanna get a track done in your name.... Why pay someone, why not learn lol.

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by Carlvtr88

I think people are kinda, over thinkin my point in this thread tbh.

Literally all i'm saying is, you're a DJ, you wanna get a track done in your name.... Why pay someone, why not learn lol.

You could argue why bands such as the Rolling Stones have sound engineers