Fuel pump & tank - Page 2 - Saxperience

Ross^p · 11th September 2012, 19:36

Point out the faults Dave? We didnt know better.

Dave_P · 11th September 2012, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Point out the faults Dave? We didnt know better.

Everything you see shouldn't be in the passenger compartment.

Ross^p · 11th September 2012, 19:51

Figures!

We didnt know how to do it so copied a professional Motorsport preparation companies installs.

Dave_P · 11th September 2012, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

We didnt know how to do it so copied a professional Motorsport preparation companies installs.

Really?!

You wouldn't be able to compete in a car with its fuel system on display like that.

wadoryu · 11th September 2012, 22:09

Big metal pot of fuel inside passenger compartment, better you than me Ross *scared*

Ross^p · 11th September 2012, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Really?!

You wouldn't be able to compete in a car with its fuel system on display like that.

Yep really...

I should point out both "professional" and "Motorsport preparation" are their terms not mine... My views on the company are well known.

It's how their own, and their customers cars, are outfitted.

Appreciate why now - a roll with that setup could be a disaster.

I'll certainly not run it like this again.

There's lots of people running it like this, so I guess we all need a reminder of safety...

jpsaxo · 12th September 2012, 03:58

This is EXACTLY why I don't have a swirl pot ^

We were having fuel starvation at around 7,000rpm on my SB engine with the standard pump, but more alarmingly we were getting fuel starvation on hard acceleration as well.

To combat that we fitted a 225 walboro Intank fuel pump inside the standard tank, it was a bit of a pain and very fiddly, but it cured the problem and is good for over 300bhp using the standard fuel lines apparently

Ross^p · 12th September 2012, 08:41

I've done a 255 into the stock swirl pot twice now on two cars, it's a pain in the arse tbh! But I was using a 255 intank to ally swirl pot, then a 255 external to fuel lines. Now I'm just running the 255 in tank so we'll see if it leans out, but I doubt it. The calculations on paper look good.

axsaxoman · 12th September 2012, 09:37

dave-- you are right
also its plumbed in wrong --return to the tank should be the top connection ,so any air goes back to tank+ tank is kept full of fuel
to keep to the EXACT wording of the regs you should have no fuel container with the passenger compartment .
yes fit it in the back ,but then you must build a sealed box around it all

jpsaxo · 12th September 2012, 09:40

It should be fine i reckon mate, they say fine up to 300bhp but id imagine 350 it should be fine. what are you going to be running?

Ross^p · 12th September 2012, 09:43

thanks John we did actually fix that after the photo was taken - that explained a symptom we had of starvation where the external pump couldn't actually pump and would seize. Was drawing against a vacuum. Sorted when we swapped the lines round.

I'll not be running one again I dont think, and if I did, would relocate the setup elsewhere.

Thanks for the input on my old setup guys - really appreciated.

Ross^p · 12th September 2012, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsaxo

It should be fine i reckon mate, they say fine up to 300bhp but id imagine 350 it should be fine. what are you going to be running?

Power wise? Around a (genuine...) 350.

John, what would you suggest if we run into issues with the walbro 255 flow wise? Do I have any more intank options?

axsaxoman · 17th September 2012, 14:12

I never had change std pump because of lack of volume --std pump can move 40 gallons an hour @3bar --so unless you have fitted an 8litre v8 I can,t see why you would need a bigger flowing pump
even with 490cc injectors thats only 0.43galons a minute ,if they were running 100% and at max of 80% thats 0.3gallons a minute ,and that would be good for 400+bhp
starvation caused by tank level has nothing to do with pump volume

Ross^p · 17th September 2012, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I never had change std pump because of lack of volume --std pump can move 40 gallons an hour @3bar --so unless you have fitted an 8litre v8 I can,t see why you would need a bigger flowing pump
even with 490cc injectors thats only 0.43galons a minute ,if they were running 100% and at max of 80% thats 0.3gallons a minute ,and that would be good for 400+bhp
starvation caused by tank level has nothing to do with pump volume

That's interesting.

Josh (above) had back to back dyno sessions with standard then 255 pump. When being mapped by Sandy, the standard pump could not supply enough for his configuration, which is around half of mine (power wise). He swapped to a 255, and it was fixed. No other changes.

I run 4bar with 630cc injectors. I hope the 255 can cope. Confused though!

axsaxoman · 17th September 2012, 15:33

thats easy --std pump was fucked or it was 1.4 pump ,which is smaller output than a 1.6 pump,or he was running very high pressure --raise pressure too much and the volume drops dramtically

tweeqd · 17th September 2012, 21:00

ross the Aeromotive 340 fits in the standard tank dead easy and is the same size as a standard pump, they have been tested up to 700bhp on evos so should be ok for a saxo

i have one in mine to cope with the nitrous but even with the standard intank swirl pot you will get starvation on track under 1/4 tank

Ross^p · 17th September 2012, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

ross the Aeromotive 340 fits in the standard tank dead easy and is the same size as a standard pump, they have been tested up to 700bhp on evos so should be ok for a saxo

i have one in mine to cope with the nitrous but even with the standard intank swirl pot you will get starvation on track under 1/4 tank

Thanks martin, really appreciated

I'll see what happens when mapping comes around but I'll remember this for sure

tweeqd · 17th September 2012, 22:12

a Bosch 023 as run in the audi RS's is not much bigger than a walbro and will fit with some work
they have been used on 500bhp+ cossies without an issue

i was going to run an 023 in mine but lots of good reviews on the aeromotive on the MLR and imported from the USA there only £110

jpsaxo · 18th September 2012, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

thats easy --std pump was fucked or it was 1.4 pump ,which is smaller output than a 1.6 pump,or he was running very high pressure --raise pressure too much and the volume drops dramtically

It was the standard 1.6 vts pump John. We are using a 3bar fpr. Most alarmingly was that it couldn't supply enough fuel on hard acelleration either

axsaxoman · 18th September 2012, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsaxo

It was the standard 1.6 vts pump John. We are using a 3bar fpr. Most alarmingly was that it couldn't supply enough fuel on hard acelleration either

then your choices are bad pump--most probable ,partially blocked filter .fuel lines or some sort of rstrictor in plumbing -were you using std fuel reg--alot of the remote fuel regs have very small internal pipe sizing -which will reduce flow rate -did you actually check fuel pressure to see if it was dropping under load?
I only run std in-tank pump on my car with a front mounted swirl pot + in line pump and never had any problems --even when i only used std pump i only had problems when level in tank was too low
the std pump is same as used on the xantia 3.oltre v6 and thats over 200bhp in std form .
technically the lines from back to front of car are a little small -only 6mm internal --which is why if changing lines I go for 8 or 10mm copper lines front to back .
small fuel lines can cause a transient problem on accel if system is border line on capacity
If you asked a pump maker they would suggest 12mm feed lines from pump at back to reg at front . for this reason , to give a reservoir of fuel at high pressure to smooth out transient pressure /volume demands
but using an return pipe of a smaller diameter
are you using std saxo wiring loom ?