VTS Turbo - Loom issues

[sri_130]

Been a while.
I have a project 106.

Runs fine, however it was originally a quicksilver. 1.4
It had a VTS engine and loom deployed - 3-plug.
Interior loom was also changed, but I'm unsure as to when/what it's from.

Currently the rev counter doesn't work and handbrake light is permanently on.

I know it's likely a loom crossover issue - as I've snipped the wire for the handbrake/brake reservoir to the clocks - yet the bulb is still lit. It could also be the donor VTS had ABS... but anyway.

I could remedy the Speedo by running a wire direct from the ECU. But I don't have the correct pin out for the 3 plug to know which wire to splice.

I could go through all the 26 individual wires in the yellow instrument connector, but I'd rather not.

Anyone left on here, who did a conversion and had the same drama?

[Furioman]

Are the dials in the car from a abs car? i could never work out on mine with the abs system removed and the wires that should earth the handbrake light disconnected that light was still on,in the end i destroyed a track on the pcb from the handbrake light and ran a wire to the connector block to bypass the abs.

cant help with the other problem, possible that your interior loom is the crossover big single plug loom that should go with the single plug ecu these were 2000 year cars

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by Furioman

Are the dials in the car from a abs car? i could never work out on mine with the abs system removed and the wires that should earth the handbrake light disconnected that light was still on,in the end i destroyed a track on the pcb from the handbrake light and ran a wire to the connector block to bypass the abs.

cant help with the other problem, possible that your interior loom is the crossover big single plug loom that should go with the single plug ecu these were 2000 year cars

Ah... Next question, which track did you destroy?! Did you take any pictures?
I've isolated the handbrake/reservoir wire and it's not that, that's illuminating the bulb, so it's either another wire (unlikely) or a PCB track that bridges the ABS part. Sounds like what you found - I just need to replicate!

[Furioman]

i destroyed the track right after the led on the PCB, i wouldn't recommend what i did as i still don't know the consequences. i recon there's a less destructive way to get it to work right i just ran out of patience.

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by Furioman

i destroyed the track right after the led on the PCB, i wouldn't recommend what i did as i still don't know the consequences. i recon there's a less destructive way to get it to work right i just ran out of patience.

Lol.

OK, so I think the safest option here, is for me to de-solder the handbrake light - that should make it go away.

Next issue, need to find a way to wire up the rev counter to the ECU...

[MartinObviously]

Originally Posted by sri_130

Lol.

OK, so I think the safest option here, is for me to de-solder the handbrake light - that should make it go away.

Next issue, need to find a way to wire up the rev counter to the ECU...

It doesn't just function as a handbrake light!

Low fluid level, engine issues etc all use that light. it's a warning light.

There's a 4 pin connector that feeds the ABS pump, if it's not unplugged already, unplug that and the light should go off.

remember, the engine needs to be running, the light stays on with the engine off and the ignition on! it'll only go out once the engine is started.

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

It doesn't just function as a handbrake light!

Low fluid level, engine issues etc all use that light. it's a warning light.

There's a 4 pin connector that feeds the ABS pump, if it's not unplugged already, unplug that and the light should go off.

remember, the engine needs to be running, the light stays on with the engine off and the ignition on! it'll only go out once the engine is started.

There's no ABS, however, there will have been at one point - so nothing to plug back in.
Yeah the light was on all time, during running. Not now though! lolz. I can still solder, 25 years after I learnt it at school.

[MartinObviously]

Originally Posted by sri_130

There's no ABS, however, there will have been at one point - so nothing to plug back in.
Yeah the light was on all time, during running. Not now though! lolz. I can still solder, 25 years after I learnt it at school.

The light stays on because there was no tacho signal getting to the cluster

but since you've removed the LED then...

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

The light stays on because there was no tacho signal getting to the cluster

but since you've removed the LED then...

The only thing to fix on the dash is the tacho.
My pumpy Chinese obd thing, is detecting the engine revs and displays them on my phone - so there must be a feed to the OBD plug. I'd rather take one from here, than the ECU directly.

Any ideas which pin/colour/wire number it'll be? gonna do some heavy googling tonight.

got the pin out for the ECU but the plug I've got (pic below) doesn't say how they are numbered. It should be wired 425 (white) pin 8...
but I'd rather have it from the obd if poss.

[MartinObviously]

That's not how it works

The readout from the OBD plug is data from the ECU. The tach signal is totally separate.

There's a thread on here all about splicing looms it's got the pinout for all the plugs.

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

That's not how it works

The readout from the OBD plug is data from the ECU. The tach signal is totally separate.

There's a thread on here all about splicing looms it's got the pinout for all the plugs.

Tha nos, the obd takes the ecu data - however, my obd thing is not getting the 'full picture' from the ECU. I believe this is down to the software on the ECU - some versions hardly give anything. but one thing it does read is revs. It'll read codes as well, but pretty much naff all else.

I read that loom stuff, I just didn't fancy taking a feed out of the engine loom, when I could have it from the cabin, if tha nos wot thas sayin.
It also didn't say which way the pin numbering works... left to right, top to bottom.. which end is bottom...

Haynez shows this, which I'm going to unwrap tomorrow and see if it is a lie. Blue is the tacho apparently. It's feed to the ECU looks to be intersected with a feed to the diagnostic plug. Possibly, maybe, hopefully.

[sri_130]

And....

That didn't work.

I've got the right connector in the back of the clocks for sure. Tested it on all the OBD plugs but nothing. When it connected to a ground (either of the two in the OBD plug), it did spark the tacho into life - so the tacho does actually move.

Have to take the feed from the ECU loom to chassis connector ffs

[MartinObviously]

Haynes is wrong here!

I forgot you're using a crossover

So the chassis plug and the engine loom plug pinouts are in a different order. You need to de-pin the plug and have it so that the male and female pins are in the correct place.

READ THIS THREAD

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=464443

the "early 3 plug chassis" is the crossover so I hope you've not damaged it beyond repair.

Also you'll need to sort your "handbrake light"

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

Haynes is wrong here!

I forgot you're using a crossover

So the chassis plug and the engine loom plug pinouts are in a different order. You need to de-pin the plug and have it so that the male and female pins are in the correct place.

READ THIS THREAD

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=464443

the "early 3 plug chassis" is the crossover so I hope you've not damaged it beyond repair.

Also you'll need to sort your "handbrake light"

Lol - forget the handbrake light - RIP.

But, I think I'm getting close - but still miles away.

I forged ahead with my bull in the china shop mentality and found a rough forum post about the 3 plug ECU that said the rev counter was pin 8 - white wire. On the chassis/interior loom side of pin 8 - I snipped it and wired it direct to the rev counter - GUESS WHAT? nothing. Multi-meter on it, shows 4.3v when I increase and decrease revs - it stays the same - so it can't be pin 8. It also stays at 4.3v for a minute after the ignition is switched off.

So... Martin.... here we go:
A snippet of that post you linked:

Early 3-Plug ECU Chassis Plug (Mk2 saxos & S2 106):

1. CM10E/CC2 - Ignition Live
2. CH07A/C075 - Reverse
3. 100 - Starter
4. 822 - Immobiliser
5. 820 - Immobiliser
6. 2210/220 - Reverse
7. 425/426/429 - Rev Counter
8. 410 - Oil Pressure Red Light
9. 1072/1071 - Alternator Warning Light
10. 414 - Oil Level
11. 415 - Oil Level
12. 821 - Immobiliser
13. 465 - Speedo
14. 140 - Diagnostic Wire
15. 141 - Diagnostic Wire
16. 400 - Coolant Light
17. 401 - Coolant Gauge
18. 480 - Engine Management Warning Light
19. Blank
20. 411 - Oil Temperature
---------
34. 124/120 - Fuel Pump Live
35. 123 - Lambda Sensor Live (Note: this needs bridging with an ignition live if fitting engine to a later 3plug model)

Later 3-plug ECU Chassis plug (MK2 Saxo & S2 106):

1. CM10E/CC2 - Ignition Live
2. CH07A/C075 - Reverse
3. 100 - Starter
4. 410 - Oil Pressure Red Light
5. 465 - Speedo
6. 820 - Immobiliser
7. 822 - Immobiliser
8. 425/426/429 - Rev Counter
9. 140 - Diagnostic Wire
10. 141 - Diagnostic Wire
11. 414 - Oil Level
12. 415 - Oil Level
13. 411 - Oil Temperature

------------------------------------

So it could be Pin 7 instead?!

[MartinObviously]

Definitely the right pin?

Do the numbers on the wires match up? i.e 425/6/9

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

Definitely the right pin?

Do the numbers on the wires match up? i.e 425/6/9

Can't see the numbers, they've faded that badly.
Defo had pin 8. Defo defo.

It must be that the engine loom is an early VTS, that might make sense as the head on this engine is an early one too. It has an open hole where the fresh air pump goes on the later models. And the interior loom is a late loom.

So it's likely pin 7 on the engine loom side is tacho.
I'm going to cut the sheath off and stick the multimeter on the wire and see if it changes with rpm. I'm not cutting anything anymore. Lol.

I asked for some electrical tape for Xmas.

[sri_130]

Sliced the sheath off wire 7 to expose it, multimeter on and car running.
Nothing.

Ffs.

[MartinObviously]

Originally Posted by sri_130

Sliced the sheath off wire 7 to expose it, multimeter on and car running.
Nothing.

Ffs.

The multimeter won't see anything on the tacho signal wire? you'll need an oscilloscope for that. most multimeters are too slow to see the pulses.

What to do, is see if you can find an ECU pinout, and continuity test from the ECU main plug to the chassis plug. Then back to the dash. that's the only other way you could do it.

[sri_130]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

The multimeter won't see anything on the tacho signal wire? you'll need an oscilloscope for that. most multimeters are too slow to see the pulses.

What to do, is see if you can find an ECU pinout, and continuity test from the ECU main plug to the chassis plug. Then back to the dash. that's the only other way you could do it.

I'm getting pretty fukced off now. I think you are onto something with the oscilloscope, so I joined the two wires and NOTHING. So there's just no signal on that pin at all.
There's no ECU pin out for the 3 plug ECU. So I'm snookered there.

So I've got a picture of the engine/chassis plugs as I didn't want to be cutting and joining anymore wires!



That's exactly how they mate together, so you can see some pins just don't align at all.

According to the loom thread (http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=441413) the engine loom and ECU correspond to:

Engine loom
"Large Single Plug/Late Pin Layout - Again some early Mk2 models use this but this is the mainly seen from 2001 onwards & also later S2 106's"
Great. Box ticked.

Interior loom/chassis plug

WTF is that. The pin outs aren't even on the loom thread. It's connector is blue as well.

[Gabbastard]

Ive a full VTS interior loom that has that plug, Ill grt some photos if you want to compare it?