supercharger!

[fergie458]

hey
im looking at putting a supercharger on to my saxo the model im looking comes off the mini cooper 's' the Eaton M45 supercharger now i no it will take a bit of working in fabricating the inlet but was just wondering wot other mods i will need to do and if any one else has done this or knows about this i will be really greatful of your help,
here is a pic of the supercharger im looking at aswell if it helps



all help wanted

[fergie458]

also the mini it is coming off has got 38000 on the clock but the sc looks fine iv found a intercooler for this sc im now wondering if it will fit and if so were to put it coz it looks a bit tight tbh...?

[TU-Tuning]

Unfortunately mate its not a good idea, search for more detailed info but basically;

Those chargers are shite

Theyre also huge and hard to fit in a saxo bay, possible but difficult

Even with a good setup charged saxos arent very good for daily drivers as the shafts and box cant take the torque



If you want to charge it still, rotrex chargers are a better choice. But your still looking at about £4.5k if you fit the parts yourself, to do it properly. And that doesnt include the previously mentioned weak drivetrain. Was looking into it heavily myself before I realise how shite the drivetrain is past a certain torque level

[fergie458]

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Unfortunately mate its not a good idea, search for more detailed info but basically;

Those chargers are shite

Theyre also huge and hard to fit in a saxo bay, possible but difficult

Even with a good setup charged saxos arent very good for daily drivers as the shafts and box cant take the torque



If you want to charge it still, rotrex chargers are a better choice. But your still looking at about £4.5k if you fit the parts yourself, to do it properly. And that doesnt include the previously mentioned weak drivetrain. Was looking into it heavily myself before I realise how shite the drivetrain is past a certain torque level

m8 im so gutted right now i had been looking into this for a while now, located the sc and the intercooler and actually got a machanic to fiddle the inlet to get the right size, does this sc create alot of torque? i didnt think it would be such a pig of a job being as they are both 1600's but im guessin the mini is just a bit more solid in build.
im guessin also that seeing as im puttting a cam on to my car before hand combined with mani etc on already that would be too much stress on the saxo?
thanx for they advice tho m8

[TU-Tuning]

Sorry mate, I had a feeling you had but its better you asked now than spent a lot of mollah.

To be fair those chargers are known to be turd, most Cooper S owners who are seriously into their tuning replace them pretty quickly with other models.

Saxos are keen to a bit of NA tuning, camming its a sound plan. The VTR lumps STD internals are actually reasonably happy with a bit of low boost aswell. Superchargers are a lot more to setup properly than turbos are though, for a quick low boost thrill a turbo conversions a better plan.

This is doable, as you can see below, but its not worth the money realistically



If your still keen on a supercharger, get onto GMC. Theyre basically the top dogs when it comes to supercharging saxos.

[fergie458]

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Sorry mate, I had a feeling you had but its better you asked now than spent a lot of mollah.

To be fair those chargers are known to be turd, most Cooper S owners who are seriously into their tuning replace them pretty quickly with other models.

Saxos are keen to a bit of NA tuning, camming its a sound plan. The VTR lumps STD internals are actually reasonably happy with a bit of low boost aswell. Superchargers are a lot more to setup properly than turbos are though, for a quick low boost thrill a turbo conversions a better plan.

This is doable, as you can see below, but its not worth the money realistically



If your still keen on a supercharger, get onto GMC. Theyre basically the top dogs when it comes to supercharging saxos.

yeah m8 true glad i found out now instead of shelling £180 for the sc and the intercooler, worst thing is i had even found the pulley kit aswell for £65 just need a belt and a few other bits
im not going to lie but this engine does look good but if they are not that good what bhp/torque will it have?



i prefer the idea of the sc as it is a gradual and more constant boost but 4.5k is a BIT steep for me lol

[dj_russell]

my mate reakens hes going to do the same as what you was going to do to his 106 gti, ill be interested to see if he still carries it out after what youve said.

[maddison_vts]

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Even with a good setup charged saxos arent very good for daily drivers as the shafts and box cant take the torque

drivetrain gets broken through being abused. double clutching, hard launches and aggresive shifts break transmission.

i'm quite confident that a standard ma gearbox could comfortably handle over 200bhp at the wheels if driven with mechanical sympathy


i would say a supercharged saxo would be much more gentle towards transmission that a turbo's saxo.

n/a would obviously be the most friendly as its such a gradual power delivery, but if you want outright power, boost is the only way to go.

[mtpagey]

Originally Posted by fergie458

im not going to lie but this engine does look good but if they are not that good what bhp/torque will it have?

nit sure about the cooper s/c specifically but s/c'd saxo's produce about 200-240bhp from waht i've read.

if you want to do it then all the best but personally, i'd spend my £4.5k elsewhere

[fergie458]

Originally Posted by mtpagey

nit sure about the cooper s/c specifically but s/c'd saxo's produce about 200-240bhp from waht i've read.

if you want to do it then all the best but personally, i'd spend my £4.5k elsewhere

yeah when i heard that was the price for the sc kit was bit put off, but then the sc you get it better that the model im looking buy a good distance i think, im more of a supercharger fan my self just for the way they work,
and i dont personally think they wil do as much damage as a turbo, im going to look into the mini super charger route but going to get good advice off here and also really have a chat with mechanic that seems to think he has got all of the work planned out for it.
that seems like alot of power i dont think that mine will produce anything near that it is on the vtr with mani etc not even got the cam on it yet lol but im aiming to get around 145bhp ish off this sc kit if i were to do it

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

drivetrain gets broken through being abused. double clutching, hard launches and aggresive shifts break transmission.

i'm quite confident that a standard ma gearbox could comfortably handle over 200bhp at the wheels if driven with mechanical sympathy


i would say a supercharged saxo would be much more gentle towards transmission that a turbo's saxo.

n/a would obviously be the most friendly as its such a gradual power delivery, but if you want outright power, boost is the only way to go.

cheers m8 im more of an sc fan compared to turbo i think but wouls happily have either, i personally wouldss not think that this particular sc would stress components too much as is it already off a 1600, i no i will obviously need to replace certain parts but then im only going through the learning and deciding if its worth it stage at the min, even though i think i have got half of the parts already lined up to buy haha

[mtpagey]

totally off topic but nice sig

[gd16]

If you're going to use the eaton - make sure and getting decent mapping and a decent intercooler.

I beleive the inlet temps with the Eatons are pretty high - which effects both reliability and power.


Also - listen to advice of a few people, more so people who have been there/done that, before taking things as gospel.

[Tontsy]

Originally Posted by mtpagey

totally off topic but nice sig

haha i was jsut thinking that!

[TU-Tuning]

Heres one of the big quotes that put me off charging my daily;

'For the full works, S/C conversion your looking at around 5.5k for the engine then another 1.5k for a good brake and suspension setup cuase your gonna need them too!

So your looking around 7k with a bit to spare i reckon!

Also worth takin note that these cars are unreliable, i found out the hard way, they should not be used as a daily driver although i do with mine and it has been ok since i spent about 3k on updates and repairs.

Your fule bills will triple! my VTS S/C does around 180 miles to a full tank if driven sensibly...about 120 if driven hard! i do around 300 miles a week so you can imagine my fuel bills!

You will go through tyres very quickly becuase of the extra power...

Depending on how much boost you run you may need to do some gearbox work...the standard unit cant really handle the power so your looking at another £800 to get that sorted with a LSD and new bearings/syncrhos's etc etc!

As i said things do break easy...the car isnt made for 200+ bhp and wasnt designed for it!

So if you wanna do it then consider the fact that it will spend 25% of its tome off the road and that it will cost you a small fortune.'

[gd16]

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Also worth takin note that these cars are unreliable, i found out the hard way, they should not be used as a daily driver although i do with mine and it has been ok since i spent about 3k on updates and repairs.

Depends on the power output and driver usage. I used mine for well over a year boosted with no issues whatsoever related to the fact it was putting out double power.

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Your fule bills will triple! my VTS S/C does around 180 miles to a full tank if driven sensibly...about 120 if driven hard! i do around 300 miles a week so you can imagine my fuel bills!

How much did the person go through to begin with? I know i used to get 300 miles to a tank pre-boost, and 100miles to half a tank after boost. Power = air + fuel. More air = more fuel = more power. Of course fuel bills are going to go up!!

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

You will go through tyres very quickly becuase of the extra power...

Yes - to an extent. But again, if you can't control yourself and wheelspin everywhere the tyres are going to last an even shorter time. Its not the extra power that will go through the tires, its trying to use that extra power with little/no traction.

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Depending on how much boost you run you may need to do some gearbox work...the standard unit cant really handle the power so your looking at another £800 to get that sorted with a LSD and new bearings/syncrhos's etc etc!

Yes - LSD of some kind is the best way to resolve transmission problems. Standard diff ain't too great. I tend to advise folk to budget for one of these when going for boost. But if your cars for track/fast road, it'd be adviseable to get one anyway.

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

As i said things do break easy...the car isnt made for 200+ bhp and wasnt designed for it!

Exactly - so anyone thinking they can just bolt on double the power - then moan when they need to upgrade things like LSD, brakes, suspension to cope - is kidding themselves at thinking that its easy/cheap to do.

Engine mounts, LSD, clutch. There's £1200 right there, and i wouldn't advise boosting without these.

[TU-Tuning]

Hmm, interesting points mate. Getting me interested in the charged route again now. Ill be fitting a Quaife anyway. Other than that, the boxes and shafts can take it? I heard the input shafts are weak?

I was looking at purchasing the entire GMC setup with most likely a Rotrex 84. Will be acquiring parts over a year or so. Daily use still possible then?

[gd16]

After the diff, input shaft is meant to be the next week point. However, you'll find a lot of people doing a BE conversion to take the power - and they have the same size input shaft. GMC have looked into producing a cheap solution for the input shaft that quite a few people took them up on.

Obviously it depends how much power is going through it, what kind of delivery and how well its driven. If a s/c TU'd Ax with 230+bhp@wheels can do almost 2500 laps of Knockhill at a competitive rate on a rebuilt quaiffed box - then can't see why the MA box is 'unreliable'.

Daily use all depends what you want/expect from the car. I used mine daily with low-ish boost (still double power) for a year and a half, but thats knowing fine well that fuel was going to be loads as the temptation is always there to use the power. The more extreme you go power wise, the less likely you'll want to use it every day. Likewise, unless you build it (aka pay lots) to be reliable, then don't expect it to be. If you want it to be reliable, you'll need to sacrifice power or put in a lot more cash.

[TU-Tuning]

True. Id only ever do it properly, forgies etc. And I was looking into GMCs input shaft on SSC too.

Time to do some calculations me thinks

[gd16]

Lots

And its addictive. Just make sure you buy what you want/need the first time - look into it properly, and save if you needbe - takes a bit longer to get things, but means you save by not having to buy twice

[fergie458]

Originally Posted by gd16

If you're going to use the eaton - make sure and getting decent mapping and a decent intercooler.

I beleive the inlet temps with the Eatons are pretty high - which effects both reliability and power.


Also - listen to advice of a few people, more so people who have been there/done that, before taking things as gospel.

iv herd that temp is a prob but with proper cooling im hoping i will be able to get it under control, hope!. but im really going to look at it for a while and not goin to rush into it.

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Heres one of the big quotes that put me off charging my daily;

'For the full works, S/C conversion your looking at around 5.5k for the engine then another 1.5k for a good brake and suspension setup cuase your gonna need them too!

So your looking around 7k with a bit to spare i reckon!

Also worth takin note that these cars are unreliable, i found out the hard way, they should not be used as a daily driver although i do with mine and it has been ok since i spent about 3k on updates and repairs.

Your fule bills will triple! my VTS S/C does around 180 miles to a full tank if driven sensibly...about 120 if driven hard! i do around 300 miles a week so you can imagine my fuel bills!

You will go through tyres very quickly becuase of the extra power...

Depending on how much boost you run you may need to do some gearbox work...the standard unit cant really handle the power so your looking at another £800 to get that sorted with a LSD and new bearings/syncrhos's etc etc!

As i said things do break easy...the car isnt made for 200+ bhp and wasnt designed for it!

So if you wanna do it then consider the fact that it will spend 25% of its tome off the road and that it will cost you a small fortune.'

im not too sure what the out put for a vtr will be to b honst but i no it will stress certain parts, im still so interested though lol