N/A 160bhp from a VTS/GTI J4 - Saxperience

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 13:39

Wouldn't be asking much to get a naturally aspirated 160bhp at the flywheel from a J4 would it?

What kind of things am I looking at for that sort of power ?
Exhaust manifold
Exhaust system
Camshafts
Cold air feed
Remap.... ?

And what sort of modifications would I be looking at getting 160bhp at the wheels?

Exhaust manifold
Exhaust system
Camshafts
Cold air feed
Remap
Ports match to in/ex manifolds
Ports polished
Polished throttle body
Small skim on the cylinder head
Lightened and balanced flywheel
Lightened and balanced crank and rods

Would that kind of thing get them there?

I've got a vtr that just isn't powerful enough felt great for the first week then got bored, fitted a magnex system and piper 4-1 felt good again for a few days and once again now I'm bored so went and looked at putting a j4 or jp4 head on my vtr engine found it's not that hard but money wise I'd be better off buying a vts engine in the first place, so now I'm looking at. What I'd need to sit my car at 160bhp (at the flywheel/or the wheels)

Cheers Kieren

Gabbastard · 26th December 2013, 14:17

I built my mates AX up with a VTS engine with a few mods ; catcam 708s, Milltek 4-2-1, Raceland induction kit with Green filter, Scorpion exhaust. Mapped with a Dastek, it made 152bhp. I think it actually made a little more than that , chapping on 155, but didnt get near 160. That said, a bit more time spent playing with mapping and swinging the cams, 160 might be doable.

Gabbastard · 26th December 2013, 14:18

Thats at fly. Would take a fair bit more to get 160@wheels!

wullvfr · 26th December 2013, 14:20

I think for roughly 150-160bhp you'd be looking at

Uprated cams(catcams 708/743's and similar)
4-2-1 manifold
Full decat system,I recommend the saxsport 2" race system
Induction kit

And a remap on the std ecu,I'm not sure if places still do maps for the std ecu but if not you can either buy a standalone ecu or a dastek unichip q or similar that allows the std ecu to be mapped,if you plan on going for more power later on then a standalone ecu,predator ecu or similar will be a good route to go down.

As for gaining more you'll be looking at

Throttle bodies
Cylinder head work

And possibly uprating valves,springs and followers and other wilder cams but tbh on the std internals and 743's,I'm sure with a good throttle body set up,some cylinder head work and a good map,170-180bhp should be doable.

Will take a fair bit to achieve 160whp and tbh 160bhp or so at the flywheel will feel plenty fast,you'll notice a big difference in comparison to your vtr with just a standard vts.

sexy_gt · 26th December 2013, 14:29

Dont waste money on bodies for 160@fly. Isnt worth the money. Ive been there.

for 160@wheels id suggest low (ish) supercharger boost.

no messing with cams, timing or fitting pistons.

dont be scared of a charger kit costing the earth, they can be found cheap even proper rotrex ones.

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 14:38

So I'm looking at 150/160bhp at the flywheel, what kind of power does that put to the wheels ? I'm going to be keeping my vtr gearbox for the slightly longer ratios mainly because the cars my daily so don't want it screaming at 75/80 on the motorway and it's just been rebuilt so should be reliable as long as I keep hard standstill launches to a minimum...

AlexB^p · 26th December 2013, 14:56

160 at wheels buy my engine if you want that
that made 163 at the wheels 187 at flywheel

3500 quid
forged lairy cams itbs and omex 600 series

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

160 at wheels buy my engine if you want that
that made 163 at the wheels 187 at flywheel

3500 quid
forged lairy cams itbs and omex 600 series

3 an a half k !!! Do I get a go on your misses as well for that? That's stupid money on a j4

wullvfr · 26th December 2013, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

So I'm looking at 150/160bhp at the flywheel, what kind of power does that put to the wheels ? I'm going to be keeping my vtr gearbox for the slightly longer ratios mainly because the cars my daily so don't want it screaming at 75/80 on the motorway and it's just been rebuilt so should be reliable as long as I keep hard standstill launches to a minimum...

Not entirely sure but I'd say your looking at roughly 135-145whp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

160 at wheels buy my engine if you want that
that made 163 at the wheels 187 at flywheel

3500 quid
forged lairy cams itbs and omex 600 series

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

3 an a half k !!! Do I get a go on your misses as well for that? That's stupid money on a j4

Its going to cost a fair few quid to get 163whp and buying one that's ready to go ain't a bad shout.

When you factor in all the costs for cams,throttle bodies,ecu,mapping of ecu etc etc and the ball ache of getting it all fitted and set up then 3.5k is a good price.

The way I look at it is over time I can hopefully build a spec that's good because I don't have a lot of cash straight up but if I did have the disposable income then I know what I'd be doing.

Ross^p · 26th December 2013, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

3 an a half k !!! Do I get a go on your misses as well for that? That's stupid money on a j4

Would you like to buy my J4? I'd probably settle for a round £15,000. All ancillaries included.
I jest. Not for sale. Certainly not for half what I've spent.

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 15:51

I WILL CHANGE THE FUTURE OF TUNING A TU ENGINE !!!! Ahah

I'm gonna go down to the unit for a few months and see what I can do about building my own inlet manifold to suite bike carbs/bodies I've got a megajolt from my fiesta already so il just need to get it wired in, il let people know what the out come is, there has to be a more cost friendly approach to tuning a saxo/106/ax. Compared to other things in there class they may be standard with a good competitive power but once tuned unless money isn't a factor they would get left for dust by fiestas/micras/clios/even corsa's can be cheaply modded for good bhp cheaply (although would never go through the shame of owning one)

ed-bradley · 26th December 2013, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

I WILL CHANGE THE FUTURE OF TUNING A TU ENGINE !!!! Ahah

I'm gonna go down to the unit for a few months and see what I can do about building my own inlet manifold to suite bike carbs/bodies I've got a megajolt from my fiesta already so il just need to get it wired in, il let people know what the out come is, there has to be a more cost friendly approach to tuning a saxo/106/ax. Compared to other things in there class they may be standard with a good competitive power but once tuned unless money isn't a factor they would get left for dust by fiestas/micras/clios/even corsa's can be cheaply modded for good bhp cheaply (although would never go through the shame of owning one)

Sophia_bush has already beaten you to it.
He can make you a itb manifold to suit Gsxr bodies for £550ish iirc, all you need is to map it.

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed-bradley

Sophia_bush has already beaten you to it.
He can make you a itb manifold to suit Gsxr bodies for £550ish iirc, all you need is to map it.

Literally looking at doing the same kind of thing but we'll see how it goes

jpsaxo · 26th December 2013, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Would you like to buy my J4? I'd probably settle for a round £15,000. All ancillaries included.
I jest. Not for sale. Certainly not for half what I've spent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

3 an a half k !!! Do I get a go on your misses as well for that? That's stupid money on a j4

How about mine running 220bhp+ NA ?? Lol

luthor1 · 26th December 2013, 18:26

To get 160bhp out of a VTS engine, you need 4-1 exhaust manifold and decent straight through exhaust without cat, any of the big names, you need to port out the exhaust side on the cylinder head (this is crucial!!), you need 708/PH3 cams, and you'll need throttle bodies.

The best cam/exhaust/manifold/ecu/cold air car I saw was 147bhp. Please don't believe all these 155bhp remaps you see it's pure fantasy land.

The reality is the car makes 120bhp as standard and is 1587cc. To make 160bhp you must be MORE THAN 100BHP per LITRE. This is extremely rare and very advanced tuning. It will require the headwork to be done and the throttle bodies fitted. A 33% increase in air flow is not achieved by just cams and exhaust/manifold.

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

To get 160bhp out of a VTS engine, you need 4-1 exhaust manifold and decent straight through exhaust without cat, any of the big names, you need to port out the exhaust side on the cylinder head (this is crucial!!), you need 708/PH3 cams, and you'll need throttle bodies.

The best cam/exhaust/manifold/ecu/cold air car I saw was 147bhp. Please don't believe all these 155bhp remaps you see it's pure fantasy land.

The reality is the car makes 120bhp as standard and is 1587cc. To make 160bhp you must be MORE THAN 100BHP per LITRE. This is extremely rare and very advanced tuning. It will require the headwork to be done and the throttle bodies fitted. A 33% increase in air flow is not achieved by just cams and exhaust/manifold.

Thanks for the help buddy, 100bhp per liter is exsactly what I'm after!!!!

solvi · 26th December 2013, 19:48

i ve made 180 na whithout itbs...

got:

hi-comp pistons
skim head
special size gasket
715 cat cams
tricky valves and valve springs hats
the head made by a ducati race mecanic.
true balaced evrything on the block
the intake as modified oem bodie ..
saxo cup ecu.
daluz replica 4-4-1 and good decated line..
and several other secrets i cant say!!

maybe the dyno was wrong..

KierenCrawford · 26th December 2013, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by solvi

i ve made 180 na whithout itbs...

got:

hi-comp pistons
skim head
special size gasket
715 cat cams
tricky valves and valve springs hats
the head made by a ducati race mecanic.
true balaced evrything on the block
the intake as modified oem bodie ..
saxo cup ecu.
daluz replica 4-4-1 and good decated line..
and several other secrets i cant say!!

maybe the dyno was wrong..

Please inbox me some secrets !!!!!!!!

AlexB^p · 26th December 2013, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

3 an a half k !!! Do I get a go on your misses as well for that? That's stupid money on a j4

cost in excess of 9 to build...
and i dont have a misses so nope you dont

stupid is a matter of opinion tbh
and when you outdrag a 60k m3 suddenly its not so stupid

KamRacing · 26th December 2013, 20:20

theres no secret. you have to throw money at the issue to buy high quality parts that are matched to do the right job. Generally bike bodies give poor results. They are generally fitted with poorly designed manifolds. I only know of Colin Satchells which are any good. If you think you can build it for a few hundred quid you are mistaken. Add up how much Solvi has spent and you are into some serious money.
AlexB's engine is well worth the asking price in reality. So what if your car is only worth £300. Old cars are cheap. New parts for old cars are not.