News : The Big Loom Thread - Information for Loom Types & Conversion Wiring

[Tom5190]

Thought I’d make this to clear up a few questions that seem to get asked weekly. Plenty of people want to throw a different engine in their car from the same family but not necessarily the same model of age i.e. putting a 106 GTI engine into a 1.1 mk1 Saxo. So this thread should answer most of the questions that spring up asking about which looms fit which cars etc. I will no doubt miss things out so feel free to ask or to correct me if you see something amiss. I’m only going to speak about what I have personally come across and will try and give rough ages etc.

Please note this only covers petrol engines from S2 106 & Saxo I will update this with more photos as soon as I can get hold of some. No companies or services will be mentioned to keep things legit.

Basics

ECU's

There are THREE types of ECU configuration used, these are:

1. Single plug, 2 rows -> the least common although you will find them, they are the same layout as what you may find in S1 106 and some AX models. I’ve seen these in S reg Saxo VTR’s

2. Single plug, 3 rows -> This is the common Mk1 ECU this is also seen in S2 106's quite a lot. Most Mk1 Saxo's use these aside from early ones.



3. Three plugs -> Later Mk2 ECU's again found in S2 106's, usually 2001 onwards.

Chassis Plugs

There are 4 types of chassis plug configurations.

1. Small Single Plug - Mk1 Saxos and some early Mk2 models use this type



2. Large Single Plug/Early Pin Layout - Some early Mk2 models use this



3. Large Single Plug/Late Pin Layout - Again some early Mk2 models use this but this is the mainly seen from 2001 onwards & also later S2 106's



4. Small Twin Plug - This is found in early S2 106's



Possible Loom Combinations

1. Combining ECU No.1 & chassis plug No.1 - Early Mk1 single plug looms.

2. Combining ECU No.2 & chassis plug No.1 - Late, most common single plug looms

3. Combining ECU No.2 & chassis plug No.2 - Early Mk2 Saxo's are found with this it’s the first type of crossover loom

4 -Combining ECU No.3 & chassis plug No.2 - Again Early Mk2 Saxo's are found with this it’s the second type of crossover loom

5 - Combining ECU No.3 & chassis plug No.3 - Common 3 plug loom found in later Mk2 Saxo's and later S2 106's

6 - Combining ECU No.2 & chassis plug No.4 - Found in earlier S2 106's

So they're the 6 main types of loom, hopefully now you can have a quick glance at your ECU to find out which type it is then you can un-plug your chassis plug and have a check of which type you have. Doing this means you can identify which loom you have.

When doing a conversion you need to ensure you have the same loom as your car if you want it to plug straight in and work. Please don’t be caught out with the early and late pin layouts on the larger chassis plug. A late crossover loom (number 3) WILL fit into a later Mk2 model but it WILL NOT run as the pins are in the incorrect places.

Looms number 3 & 4 can be mixed; therefore if you have a Mk2 Saxo with single plug ECU & loom No.3, you can install a 3 plug engine with loom No.4

Choice's

So now you have identified what loom you have and what loom you need, you may well find that you can’t find the loom you need. In this case there are a few options to you.

1. It is possible to swap the necessary sensors in a 3 plug engine to those of a single plug engine, this means you can mix and match loom/ECU configurations with the actual engine. You will still need to find the correct loom to fit you chassis plug however.

2. You buy a whole car and change the interior loom, therefore if you take the interior loom and the engine loom from any car if can be fit into whatever model you like. (Providing you stay 106/106 or Saxo/Saxo otherwise you will have to change other interior items.) If you buy a donor car and are not to keen on wiring this option is good as it means you need no outside 'specialist' help and the job can be done in a day.

3. You get a loom spliced, a spliced loom is basically a loom that has the chassis plug changed to your required plug. For example you can use an early Mk1 engine with ECU No.2, and change the chassis plug from No.1 to No.3. Or you can take an early S2 106 loom and engine and change the chassis plug to that of a late Mk2 3 plug Saxo. This option allows you to buy any engine/ECU/loom and fit it to your car without buying any other parts (in terms of wiring.) Downsides to this are that the process is quite specialist and it does require you usually sending off your cars loom and the loom from the new engine.

(photos stolen from various members so cheers )

[westwell_22]

Originally Posted by Tom5190

(Providing you stay 106/106 or Saxo/Saxo otherwise you will have to change other interior items.)

What would I need to change to put the Saxo interior loom into a 106?

Nice write up btw

[burgin2011]

cracking write up pal should deffo be a sticky , especially for when you get thick shits like me

[mlawlan69]

just noticed that ones mine lol.

great write up, definately should be made a sticky !!

[Scott83]

Just found this via a search.

How much of the interior loom is needed? I have a single plug VTS as a donor car and a three plug VTR that the engine is going into.

I'm going to go with the below option, I just need to know how much of the VTS I neet to take apart. I'd prefer to keep the 'clocks' from the VTR, they show higher mileage but that doesn't bother me.

The VTS has electric mirrors etc but I don't want them, so I'd like to use as little of the interior loom as possible. I know I need the fuel feed and return pipe as well, but i'll keep looking for anything else I need to look out for.


2. You buy a whole car and change the interior loom, therefore if you take the interior loom and the engine loom from any car if can be fit into whatever model you like. (Providing you stay 106/106 or Saxo/Saxo otherwise you will have to change other interior items.) If you buy a donor car and are not to keen on wiring this option is good as it means you need no outside 'specialist' help and the job can be done in a day

[jeffchiz]

the interior loom is jsut one loom, so you cant jsut use part of it, you can obviously cut what ever you want out of the loom

iirc the electric mirror looms are found in the doors so these arent part of the main interior loom

you will have to use the older vts clocks if you want to use the vts interior loom however you can convert mk1 dials to mk2 digi dials, there is a guide on how to do this just requires loads of spade conectors and lengths of wires

[jeffchiz]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...ght=dial+guide

ive read about problems using mk2 dials though about the clock and fuel gauge not reading properly, there are ways around it all though

[Scott83]

Cheers, i'll trace it back. I assume it runs from the bay but to where? I guess it'll become apparent and i've done engine swaps before, just not on a Saxo. I like to do as much research as possible.

The VTS clocks have the ABS light, so i'll need to see about removing the bulb and blanking the panel off as the VTR doesn't have ABS but that could cause an issue come MOT time.

The VTS has a digi mileage display that's very similar so maybe it'll go in ok...?

[Tom5190]

The interior loom is the loom for the WHOLE of the inside. You need to strip the inside completely the remove it.

[Scott83]

Cheers, lucky there's not a lot inside the VTS, and the VTR should come apart easily enough.

This would be easier if the VTS was in better condition, but then it wouldn't be as cheap as it was....

That'll mean the VTS clocks are needed as well I assume, fair enough. Plenty of work, but should be fun in the end.

[luthor1]

On the single plug type there are:

55-pin 3-row using all 3 rows
55-pin 3-row only using only 2 rows
2-row single plug that the VTR Mk1 uses

I'm not sure even that is the whole list I'd have to think about it

Andy

[m4tt274]

great bit of info!

[richy_t_123]

Anyone know who does spliced looms? Got a lad buying a mk2 vtr engine off me that is going in a 1.1 single plug 106. So he will have both looms will just need the plug from his 1.1 loom putting on my mk2 loom thanks

[Bedford126]

Tom5190 Tell him I sent you I want another hot dog off him.

[richy_t_123]

He good with them how long does it take him?

[mlawlan69]

Tom created this thread if you look. Basically if there is something to know with French electronics tom knows it. He did my loon splice so can 100% recommend him.

[robster247]

Okay I have a question, I'm converting my 3 plug furio into a 1 plug vts.

Will a mk1 1.1 interior loom work with the mk 1 vts engine and loom ?

[bbracer16valver]

hi can you mod/splice a 1.3 rallye loom into a late spec vtr? thanks PM sent

[Tom5190]

Sorry for missing the last few questions In here I've subscribed so should be able to answer anymore.

Thought id stick this in here as I didn't cover this situation in the original post. Question and my answer:

Question:

Originally Posted by dobsd001

Hi Tom,

I know your very busy guy so at your leisure, would you answer a question for me please.

Put simply, are all VTS engine wiring looms the same?

I am aware of differences in year of car relating to 1 pin or 3 pin looms, but are all wiring looms the same on the engine side.

This is my plan. I do not have space to keep a car off road at the moment so I'm going to build a VTS engine without owning the car, then once that is complete I want to buy a Mk2 VTS and swap the old engine for my new engine. So if I end up with a 1998 VTS engine from eBay for example, will it drop straight into a 2002/03 VTS car?

I hope this makes sense and appreciate any time you have for me.

Many Thanks and Kind Regards

Dan

Answer:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Hi Dan, there are 3 differences in VTS/GTI looms, the main variations (I think you know these two already but just in case) are:

ECU plug type
Chassis connection plug type

But there are other small differences in engine loom plugs from age to age. The following plugs are not consistent throughout all ages of 16v engines:

Main fuel relay
Idle control valve
Alternator warning light
Map sensor
Coil pack

Possibly 1 or 2 more. So for example an early Mk2 VTS uses a different map sensor and main relay to a Mk1, the plugs on the loom are different.

However none of that should really matter to you if you plan on buying a working car because the mechanical side of the engine is the same therefore sensors can be swapped, i.e. a Mk1 map sensor fits in a Mk2 inlet manifold. If you build a Mk1 engine and fit it to a Mk2 car, you can take all of the sensors and the alternator from the Mk2 and fit it to the Mk1 engine. You wont need them all most are the same.

In short, a Mk1 engine can be used in a Mk2 car with no splicing or loom swaps as long as the relevant sensors are available from the original Mk2 VTS.

Hope that makes sense matey.

[Jimbob56789]

Originally Posted by robster247

Okay I have a question, I'm converting my 3 plug furio into a 1 plug vts.

Will a mk1 1.1 interior loom work with the mk 1 vts engine and loom ?

I believe i'm right in saying that 1.1 looms are different to pretty much everything else. I did a 1.1 to vtr conversion and even thought the engines where both 3plug and the chassis plugs connected fine, the dash clocks didnt work at all, even replaced the clocks and no help. I guess it would be the same with a vts..