Mobile Devices: Lite Theme Citroën: Citroën Trader | Saxo Trader | C2 Trader Peugeot: Peugeot Trader | 106 Trader Enthusiast: Saxperience


Go Back   Saxperience - Citroen Saxo Forum > Citroen Saxo Related Forums > Saxo Problems & Queries

Saxo Problems & Queries If you're having problems with your Saxo and you're after a bit of advice, check this forum out...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11th March 2008, 20:31   #1
AXracing
Saxperience Forum Bum
 
AXracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,857
AXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud of
Smile Truth about lights.

Coloured halogen bulbs.

No matter what colour they are tinted and no matter how much of a claim of so many % increased light any tinting of the bulb will reduce the output of the light. To change the colour of a bulb you have to block some of the light spectrum. So ignore all the claims about increased light or increased beam as its all a sham. Its all about marketing and you can twist words to say anything you like.

Legal Colours,

In the UK headlights must be of a white colour. Though you are permitted to got for as warm a colour as what is know as selective yellow. Though a few very slight tints of off white have achieved E approval. Saying that red is absolutely forbidden in a headlight, even the smallest tint of this will get you in trouble. The majority of standard cars come with a light temperature of 3200k to 4100k, Though a few do get as high as 5800k or as low as 2500k. There are next to none that fall out side this. People often think cars have a higher k bulb due to the blue halo seen in some lamps such as that found in some BMWs. This is however just due to the dichroic lense being viewed directly off its axes. All legal bulbs will be E marked. Pleas note that these E marks apply as a lamp bulb combination. So it is illegal to fit a 9004 halogen bulb to a H3 lamp or a D2R HID bulb to a H4 lamp even though both may be approved. Be warned that any modification to a lamp or bulb will render it illegal.

The disadvantage of blue light.

Governments tests found that a standard wattage blue headlamp bulb reduced the road lighting ability of a standard headlamp by 67% and increased glare for oncoming traffic by 33%. This apparent contradiction arises because of the way the human eye handles light of different colours. The short wavelength colours are very difficult for our eyes to process and focus on. Blue and violet are very difficult for the human optical system to process correctly. Blue also is a very difficult colour of light to look at if it is at all intense it stimulates the reaction we call glare.

The advantage of yellow light.

This basically taking all the disadvantages of blue away. You take the blue away from white light and you get yellow light. Yellow lamps perform significantly better especially in poor weather and are much lower in glare than white ones. For more details on how colour effects vision take a look at this independent study http://www.lightingresearch.org/prog...01-01-0320.pdf

Light quantity and brightness.

The amount of light a bulb gives off is given in lumens. This is very different to candle power that is relevant to the brightness. The automotive standard gives a lumens rating for a given bulb class. Normally when people are talking of the equivalent wattage bulb there talking as a power of original rating. Modern Halogen and HID bulbs can reach well over that original standard. In the UK and Europe any headlight bulbs producing over 2000 lumens is subject to very strict regulation. For example such bulbs of over 2000 lumens must only be used on the road if fitted with headlamp levelling and lens cleaning systems. It is illegal to use on the road any of these high power bulbs with out fully complying with the ECE regulations. There is also an upper limit to the total intensity of all main beam lamps combined for a road car in the UK and the rest of Europe. This limit is set at 225,000 candle power. You will fined some related document information from this ECE link http://unece.org/trans/doc/2003/wp29...GRE-50-06e.doc

Kelvin.

Kelvin is more commonly known as a temperature scale that starts from absolute zero and continues for ever. It is impossible to have a negative Kelvin value. When refereeing to light however it is referring to something totally different. Let me take this point to expel a common myth. Kelvin has absolutely nothing to do with how bright light is. Rather Kelvin refers to the colour of light given off by a theoretical black body heated to the same value. Click this link to see a good image showing how Kelvin relates to colour http://www.freestylephoto.biz/images...rtempchart.jpg

Retrofit HID bulbs kits.

In the UK with the governments publishing of "The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations" of 1989
these kits were made illegal to use on the public road. It is an offence to use such kits on the road. For the latest regulations visit the governments Department For Transports home page www.dft.gov.uk And more on the European commissions website www.unece.org According to the police the maximum fine for having these fitted to a road vehicle in the UK is £2500. Also if such a kit is found to be a factor in any incident on the road you can be held liable and end up with a limitless fine and limitless time in jail. These kits are also banned in the rest of Europe, Hong Kong, US and most of the rest of the world.

General disadvantage of HID bulbs.

A big issue with HID headlights is there significantly worse colour rendering index. HID are in the high 60s to low 70s. Halogen tends to be in the mid 90s. This means that the human eye colour perception and differentiation is massively superior under halogen light than under the light produced by automotive HID. Or simply put you can see better with a halogen light. For basic information on what the colour rendering index is all about follow this link
http://www.learn.londonmet.ac.uk/pac...rendering.html

High wattage halogen bulbs.

Lm for Lm these bulbs produce a far superior light than HID with increases visibility and reduced glare. Though they are still much like the retrofit HID bulbs, this is in that they are also illegal for road use in the UK and Europe just as retrofit HID bulbs are. Though significantly higher wattage bulbs do have an added disadvantage of they can overload the original electrical system. Though moderate increase in bulb wattage has been used for many years for off road applications on many otherwise standard variety of cars. You can be fined up to £1000 for having these fitted to a road going Saxo. Also if such a kit is found to be a factor in any incident on the road you can be held liable.

Fog lamps.

Fog lamps light the road literally right in front of you. In fog that gives you light that is not reflected directly back at your eyes and so helps visibility. There are two notable disadvantage of fog lamps. The primary disadvantage is they are not directed as headlights are and induce significant dazzle to oncoming traffic. In normal conditions the extra light directly in front will compromise your night vision and significantly reduce the distance you can see. Incidentally its also illegal to use your fog lights on the public roads on a clear night. You can be given a on the spot penalty notice or even prosecuted for doing so. If using such light incorrectly is found to be a factor in any incident on the road you can be held liable. Here is a handy link regarding the proper use of fog lights http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q400.htm

Insurance.

All insurance companies cover them self from dangerous cars and intenchinaly dangerous drivers. Driving a car in not a legal manner can leave you very open, but not half as much as driving a intenchinaly illegal car. Don’t forget in the eyes of the law ignorance is not a defence.

So to sum up get uncoloured bulbs to get the most light, yellow fog light bulbs are a good idea, turn your fog lights off on a clear night and don’t fit high wattage halogens or HID bulbs to your road going Saxo.

Yes I got bored

Last edited by AXracing; 26th July 2010 at 09:59.
AXracing is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to AXracing For This Useful Post:
Old 11th March 2008, 20:41   #2
Mysticp
Scotland
Track / Motorsport Prep

Scotland Region Member
 
Mystic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 9,556
Car(s): Saxo 1.6i 16v VTS, 2 Classic Minis
iTrader Score: 2 (100%)
Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!Mystic is absolutely fabulous!
Default

Done done done and done!


Good info
__________________

Get Involved: Premiumites Car Game
Mystic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2008, 21:50   #3
Barry123
Saxperience Hardcore!
Track / Motorsport PrepContent ContributorCentral South Region MemberNorth East Region MemberYorkshire Region Member
 
Barry123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Aycliffe
Posts: 32,205
Car(s): Saxo VTS
iTrader Score: 7 (100%)
Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!Barry123 is absolutely fabulous!
Default

interested read man!
Barry123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2008, 13:09   #4
sharpie
Frequent Poster
Scotland Region Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: West Lothian
Posts: 919
Car(s): 02 Icelandic Ghey VTR
iTrader Score: 6 (100%)
sharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud of
Default

nice write up. just hope people actually listen to it.
sharpie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2008, 22:20   #5
acemastr
Frequent Poster
South East Region MemberEast Anglia Region Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Huntingdon, Cambs
Posts: 498
Car(s): 2008 YBR 125
acemastr is just really niceacemastr is just really niceacemastr is just really niceacemastr is just really niceacemastr is just really nice
Default

i like my HID's, i can see further, clearer, not had any flashes or problems with police yet so i'm happy
acemastr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2008, 23:37   #6
AXracing
Saxperience Forum Bum
 
AXracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,857
AXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud of
Default

Does not alter the fact that it is now illegal to use your car on the public road. You have a 8000k set I believe? This will make your lights appear light because your eyes will struggle in the light. What you are effectively doing is making dark darker and the light appear lighter. This is why OE HID bulbs tend to be in the low 4000k. A reason your lights may look a bit odd is because your lights will no longer be focused correctly. Just pop down to your local MOT station and have a lamp test.

I just seen these photos and they sort of show the effect I was trying to Explain. The top photo unquestionably looks much brighter but just look at the hole picture. See how there is a sharp cut off from light to dark in the top photo where as the bottom photo has a much greater spread with a dithering out of the light rather than a sharp cut off. So even though its not as bright you can see so much more and so much more detail with the lower one.




I should tell you that these photos are actually an add that one distributor uses and they claim shows how good these lights are.

Last edited by AXracing; 16th March 2008 at 00:07.
AXracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2008, 21:13   #7
bullit
Saxperience Hardcore!
 
bullit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: e-hollywood
Posts: 17,160
Car(s): toyata hilux
iTrader Score: 4 (100%)
bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!bullit is absolutely fabulous!
Default

interesting
__________________
bullit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2008, 21:58   #8
Graham
Saxperience Forum Bum
East Anglia Region Member
 
Graham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 2,927
Car(s): VW Golf
iTrader Score: 3 (100%)
Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!Graham is a great team player!
Default

do we have a new vidal?
__________________
PS3 Gamertag: graham543
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2008, 23:47   #9
teebag
Established Member
West Midlands Region Member
 
teebag's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nuneaton
Posts: 1,245
Car(s): 1997 R Reg MK1 VT1.0 saxo
iTrader Score: 3 (100%)
teebag is a splendid one to beholdteebag is a splendid one to beholdteebag is a splendid one to beholdteebag is a splendid one to beholdteebag is a splendid one to beholdteebag is a splendid one to beholdteebag is a splendid one to behold
Default

just thought i should add that if you had HID's or halogens your ment to also have washers to keep your lights clear fitted aswel else they are illegal aswel

interesting read this, good physics facts aswel
__________________
so i drive a 1.0 i dont care so why should you???
view my progress thread: http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=110279
teebag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2008, 23:50   #10
sharpie
Frequent Poster
Scotland Region Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: West Lothian
Posts: 919
Car(s): 02 Icelandic Ghey VTR
iTrader Score: 6 (100%)
sharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud ofsharpie has much to be proud of
Default

here is a link to the actual department of transport page about aftermarket HIDs for anyone questioning the legality.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps
sharpie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2008, 00:51   #11
b0t13
Saxperience Post Whore
North West Region Member
 
b0t13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MaDchester
Posts: 8,432
Car(s): Vts
iTrader Score: 2 (100%)
b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!b0t13 is absolutely fabulous!
Default

tho HID's are illegal, even if there 10k or more in colour they still provide alot better visibilty on the roads..
b0t13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2008, 09:11   #12
AXracing
Saxperience Forum Bum
 
AXracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,857
AXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud ofAXracing has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0t13 View Post
tho HID's are illegal, even if there 10k or more in colour they still provide alot better visibilty on the roads..
That is arguable. But driving about with high beam on all the time will provide better visibility and there is a good reason that is not legal too.
AXracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2008, 00:05   #13
DAN-VTS
Established Member
South East Region Member
 
DAN-VTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kent, Medway
Posts: 1,274
Car(s): NA 220hp standard - proper car, Yamaha R6
iTrader Score: 8 (100%)
DAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud ofDAN-VTS has much to be proud of
Default

I dont know why your worrying about the colour temps etc. Doesnt matter what temp you put on your saxo its still going to be illegal. Taken from that link that someone put up on page 1:

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

The main thing there is the self levelling suspension, so when you go over a bump the lights adjust so you dont blind everyone. I very much doubt people have these on their saxos

Not saying if you get pulled over the police will say that but if they wanted to do you and they knew what they as talking about they could

Ive got 8000k in mine are quite blue but never been pulled over, a few dirty looks but that must be because i drive a saxo
DAN-VTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th April 2008, 06:27   #14
blusax
Frequent Poster
South Wales Region Member
 
blusax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: pontypridd, s.wales
Posts: 751
iTrader Score: 3 (100%)
blusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to beholdblusax is a splendid one to behold
Default

youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZNsZw

also good info here
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

you and many others think they may not glare someone, they may not but, they may be lighting parts of the road/other cars. Unfortunately its not for us to decide whether that would be classed as glare/unsafe.

when it boils down to it, its illegal, you can say all you want that you told your insurance etc.. etc.. but i would bet that if you got assessed and they found them they wouldn't pay out as they are an illegal modification which is clear on the department for transport website.

also you say that the "cops" in your area are specialists in catching illegal cars, but they haven't noticed you have hid's which would be illegal in all saxo's?

its your choice, if you get caught with them then you will most likely get a vehicle defect rectification notice, if you crash and get caught expect to land in hot water from a great height.

I don't give a care if people use them or not but this thread is to inform people that they are illegal if not fitted with self leveling and washers.

I myself have been in trouble with the law and had them installed before(would do in the future as well) so call me a hypocrite if you want, but it still wont make them legal.

not having a go but just stating the facts

Last edited by blusax; 30th April 2008 at 07:23.
blusax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2009, 20:46   #15
Hugo
Regular Poster
East Anglia Region Member
 
Hugo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 278
Car(s): Citroen Saxo 1.6i VTR 2001
Hugo is on a distinguished road
Default

was going to put them on myne, but im not sure anymore!
Hugo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2009, 05:28   #16
D--R--E--W
Saxperience Addict
Scotland Region Member
 
D--R--E--W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere in Bonnyland
Posts: 10,669
Car(s): Super clean mk5 Golf Gti and 306 hdi
iTrader Score: 7 (100%)
D--R--E--W is on a distinguished road
Default

I have been stopped by traffic olice before in my gti for having 10k hid's but never in my saxo with my 6k's. Also passed an m.o.t with hid's on the car
__________________
My Euroish Yellow S3 Trax Special Award Winner
400bhp Evo VIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by J222JRA View Post
You are my best Scottish friend.
D--R--E--W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2009, 06:59   #17
Scott-jarvis
Established Member
South West Region Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,053
iTrader Score: 1 (100%)
Scott-jarvis is a glorious beacon of lightScott-jarvis is a glorious beacon of lightScott-jarvis is a glorious beacon of lightScott-jarvis is a glorious beacon of lightScott-jarvis is a glorious beacon of light
Default

just get angel eyes, there bloody brilliant, loads of people have been in my car saying "what lights have you got!! cause there better than mine"
Scott-jarvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2009, 07:11   #18
D--R--E--W
Saxperience Addict
Scotland Region Member
 
D--R--E--W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere in Bonnyland
Posts: 10,669
Car(s): Super clean mk5 Golf Gti and 306 hdi
iTrader Score: 7 (100%)
D--R--E--W is on a distinguished road
Default

not keen on them but the bird is after a set for a mk2 if you know anyone?
__________________
My Euroish Yellow S3 Trax Special Award Winner
400bhp Evo VIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by J222JRA View Post
You are my best Scottish friend.
D--R--E--W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2010, 10:27   #19
rew
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8
rew is on a distinguished road
Default

i have hids on my clio, i have never been pulled probably because my car sits so low it wont dazzle any1, i will, however be swapping to my standard bulbs come mot time, probs shows you how illegal they are, but then again how many of you are running a decat on the roads??
thats just as illegal if the traffic cops wish to get vosa to give you a roadside emissions test....
rew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2010, 16:03   #20
Riiko7
Infrequent Poster
 
Riiko7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 102
Car(s): Citroen Saxo Furio.
Riiko7 is on a distinguished road
Default

I have never been stopped as yet either but may need to put them back to standard if this is true! Thanks.
Riiko7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:44.