Sump baffle...

[Sandy309]

The TU main bolts aren't stretched at the correct torque, so as long as you don't overtighten them or have an engine failure that could overstress the bolts, they are fine to re-use.

I hear what you're saying Alex and as my last post alludes, issues and how they are dealt with are part technical and part personal. There are companies/suppliers that I prefer for technical reasons, some for personal and some I won't use where the opposite is true; I could really make some enemies here on that topic!
Now I will be totally frank in response to what you say about engine building/re-building, this is purely my view, fairly off topic and bear in mind I have no available engine building slots, so I can't take on any builds, the ones I have on will easily take me into the next rebuild cycle etc, not a sales pitch of any kind, purely a personal view:
I work in a small group of engine builders/engineers that share alot of information and skills, the standard on the whole is high, but what is clear is that there are two approaches to the work, passion and profit. The hardcore of engine builders can be broken into those two motivations, I would describe myself and John Read (JRE) as passion motivated, the others, more profit motivated. Being motivated by the passion for engines, pushes you to use the best components and the highest levels of precision you can achieve within your resources and budget. Being motivated more by profit, means cheaper components with better margins (tell the customer they're great if need be) and a more lax approach to the finer details of the build. It's a sweeping generalisation perhaps, but knowing what we know about the overall quality effects of cheap major components in an engine, we find it very hard to take seriously builders that don't take their component quality seriously. Unfortunately, most customers simply don't know or understand the issues, or expect a certain amount of crap with a tuned engine. The truth is highly strung engines will need frequent checks, but if kept in check, they should provide great performance, good driveability and even economy, over their life. Most of this industry is made up of small outfits that might have a specialist area, but it's rare that they perform or oversee every stage of the build from boring the block to final in car mapping/testing with great attention to detail; it's really super rare that I see that.
Customers mostly don't know or understand much about the details or how to dovetail it all together; that naivety and cognitive dissonance means that alot of work goes un-scrutinised and problems get swept away without really being attended to. John and I aren't happy with what we do, unless we know it's of a suitable standard, that's the passion and it hurts profit, it makes doing this for a living very hard. It also means when I do flag up things I'm not happy about, I'm likely to take a pasting off people that don't think I'm being fair or have an axe to grind etc; but it's difficult not to when it matters so much.
Truly good, trustworthy and reliable engine builders/developers are hard to isolate and usually very busy and/or expensive. But they enjoy loyalty.

[AlexBp]

I know what your saying sandy
My engine has been looked at several times its only recently ive noticed my issue with end float but bottom ends should last longer than that i would hope as over a millimeter of end float seems excessive

As you say sometimes personal feelings outweigh technical data which is why personally i wont ever use gmc for anything as i found john extremely blunt and rude towards me when i asked 3 questions many years ago

[qrty]

Thank you Sandy, as always it's nice to see someone with your knowledge helping us simple folk!

[Sandy309]

Thanks

Alex, 1mm is very excessive, I really would drop the sump and take a look at the thrusts to find out what's on; one of them might be about to turn and that could be terminal.

[e8_pqck]

I work in manufacturing and if there was one area that gets a serious amount of attention it's welding. Engineers spend hours testing/qualifying and proceduralising welding, from heat input, filler, weld design, heat zones, ferrite testing, DPI, radiography and many other controls and parameters. For someone to knock up a bit of sheetmetal and use the wrong type of weld application, then think it's going to be ok, is really asking for trouble.

[AlexBp]

Originally Posted by Sandy309

Thanks

Alex, 1mm is very excessive, I really would drop the sump and take a look at the thrusts to find out what's on; one of them might be about to turn and that could be terminal.

Yea i know ita huge which is why the cars sat and not going anywere atm sandy

[Steph_at_constella]

Originally Posted by Sandy309

The statistics can be read however you want really, I only have first hand of two engines with the kit and not a good hit ratio! I seriously doubt there are more Constella kits than PS out there, the ratio in the competitions engines I've seen is heavily towards PS kits.

I can't say all I know or think here; it would just sound like I'm bitching and I think all the information needed is up for people to see and accept or reject as they see fit. I don't like making enemies and Steph if you'd taken my original (106RR), utterly practical comments as they were intended and not opened with a weak (let's face it, heavily loaded) joke about my workmanship; I might have been a bit more inclined towards diplomacy, when I found the problems.

Sandy, As I recall you posted first with no diplomacy about what you thought of our product. The better thing would have been to call us, or if you don't like phones, to email us. We don't bite and i'm actually not as much of a bitch as I come across. The joke was to lighten the mood and maybe create banter, as I said then. I apologise if it offended you but you could take the higher ground, rather than make snipey comments and posts on forums.

You said yourself you have only experience with two engines fitted with the kit, of which one was happy to use another Constella baffle. People can make their own minds up on what they use, i'm not going to go around and say we are better and the only option you should use, because we are an option. Like the Longmans option, PS option etc etc.

Now can we return to a professional and less bitchy form of discussion?? If you have more to say, please contact me directly.

[106maxi]

Now can we return to a professional and less bitchy form of discussion??

Is there any specific difference in the way the two work? Or is it all in the fitment?

[AlexBp]

Basically fitment differences

[106maxi]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Basically fitment differences

specific difference

I know they are basically the same, hence why I was asking about specifics.

[Sandy309]

Originally Posted by Steph_at_constella

Sandy, As I recall you posted first with no diplomacy about what you thought of our product. The better thing would have been to call us, or if you don't like phones, to email us. We don't bite and i'm actually not as much of a bitch as I come across. The joke was to lighten the mood and maybe create banter, as I said then. I apologise if it offended you but you could take the higher ground, rather than make snipey comments and posts on forums.

You said yourself you have only experience with two engines fitted with the kit, of which one was happy to use another Constella baffle. People can make their own minds up on what they use, i'm not going to go around and say we are better and the only option you should use, because we are an option. Like the Longmans option, PS option etc etc.

Now can we return to a professional and less bitchy form of discussion?? If you have more to say, please contact me directly.

Not every product is perfect and my original post on 106RR was "The pugsport bolts to replacement main bearing bolts. This one uses a duplicate sandwiched sump flange, which gives you doubled gasket faces and makes it twice as hard to get a good seal and latterly re-seal... hence I'm not a fan I'm afraid. " A fraction of what I really thought and an appropriate reply to the original question. Is that not diplomacy? Your reply certainly wasn't and banter isn't what I'd call it or what's happened since.

Likely we'll be saying goodbye to this thread and you're free to carry on unchallenged because I'm saying goodbye to this forum.

[blackie_2k5]

Without trying sides here as I really have no side to take,

I think it's a real shame that ppl jump allover true opinions on a forum, i can appreciate that whoevers product is being questioned should want to back up or question any claims made

But end of the day it shouldn't be about how pally a group of ppl are on a forum with a certain trader/traders

I like to read up about this sort of thing, it helps make informed decisions on products, that's what forums are all about,

Makes you wonder what the point of being on a forum is all about when really you're being coaxed into following suit with whatever a certain group of ppl seem to want, or perhaps want you to buy

Don't take it too literally on this exact situation, but this seems to happen a lot on here around different groups of ppl and forum affiliates

Massive shame

[AlexBp]

Originally Posted by Sandy309

Likely we'll be saying goodbye to this thread and you're free to carry on unchallenged because I'm saying goodbye to this forum.

If this is anything to do with my input here i apologise i was just going with what ive seen/experienced
Loosing a technical minded person is allways a big shame in a community like this

[Steph_at_constella]

Originally Posted by Sandy309

Not every product is perfect and my original post on 106RR was "The pugsport bolts to replacement main bearing bolts. This one uses a duplicate sandwiched sump flange, which gives you doubled gasket faces and makes it twice as hard to get a good seal and latterly re-seal... hence I'm not a fan I'm afraid. " A fraction of what I really thought and an appropriate reply to the original question. Is that not diplomacy? Your reply certainly wasn't and banter isn't what I'd call it or what's happened since.

Likely we'll be saying goodbye to this thread and you're free to carry on unchallenged because I'm saying goodbye to this forum.

1) diplomatic would have been a phone call. We've phoned companies before we have mentioned anything and said look, you have this issue, it needs addressing. That's diplomatic and professional.

2) I don't wish to remain unchallenged as you put it. It's a discussion in which both sides are valid. You have said this above. I'm staying mine as much as you are yours.

3) I am sorry I offend you with how I post/speak etc I apologise for any inappropriate jibes, jokes, attempted banter or whatever you want to call it.

I have no further comments but feel free to pm me and we can chat sandy

[Rossp]

I don't think "the forum" is siding with anyone andy - and lets not forget neither sandy nor Constella are affiliates.

I don't have any plans to remove this thread and although I've not confirmed with my esteemed mod colleagues, I doubt they will either. Open debate is good for everyone. No one is shepherded into a product or trader (unlike some other forums we could both mention).

I can't talk more this evening due to personal reasons, but I have spoken to both steph and sandy via pm to share my personal opinion. I'll try to reply here tomorrow.

[jpsaxo]

Originally Posted by AlexB

If this is anything to do with my input here i apologise i was just going with what ive seen/experienced
Loosing a technical minded person is allways a big shame in a community like this

It's definitely a massive shame and a big loss to the forum Alex

[wadoryu]

If this wasn't the track section I'd have posted a "well that escalated quickly meme" but to keep it on topic I feel non-inclined to do so. I think wires have been crossed somewhere and a few members need to re-read what has been said. Kiss and make up guys (and lady)

[axsaxoman]

I have watched this thread without sticking my bit in --
my view on it is simple --the price differnce is quite alot and MOST of the members of the forum have limted budgets ,and while i agree totally with sandy,s long post ,the reality is that cannot afford or want to pay for the absolute best possible ,but something that will do the job .
I have never yet had a customer who has said I want the ultimate and price is no object ,just give me the best possible
saxo owners don,t have that type of money in the main ,if they did they would not be running a saxo and every penny is a prisoner
,as for making big profits --that ,ll be the day

[axsaxoman]

an update
I got the last pug psort sump baffle kit this week
tired to get another and have been told that pugpsort france have now stopped making them --so looks like this argument is over ,as the constella is the only one out there

[106maxi]

I know where there are 3 more PugSport kits so stock hasn't completely dried up.