Standalone ecu fitting + engine looms - Page 3 - Saxperience

jsdvtr · 1st February 2011, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle

Ye because the omex loom is not a custom loom for your car.

As for sandy ones bieng the best, im probably gunna get my head bitten off here but i bought a second hand sandy loom and it looked the business but ive had a few problems with it, had to have it altered and bits replaced by GR, all in all i wish i had got a GR loom in the first place.

Was it for the correct engine though? As the mk1 and mk2 vts have different sensors, fan connections, etc. As im sure if sandy built it, it would be for the car it was built for rather than some other saxo.

How much are GR looms? Would it be for both looms?

Jungle · 1st February 2011, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Was it for the correct engine though? As the mk1 and mk2 vts have different sensors, fan connections, etc. As im sure if sandy built it, it would be for the car it was built for rather than some other saxo.

How much are GR looms? Would it be for both looms?

Not a saxo mate a 106. I know that and GR changed what needed changing to make it fit. Dont really wanna get into it in detail though on a public forum as its not fair on sandy who probably is very good at what he does judging from what ive heard, might was possibly just a bad one or been damaged when removed from the old car who knows.

I dont know mate you would have to give Gaz a ring, he prices them individually as he makes looms for any car you ask him. IIRC it would have been circa £250 for a dta loom for mine but dont quote me on that.

What do you mean both looms?

Sandy309 · 1st February 2011, 14:00

I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know what loom it was, who it was bought from and what car you were trying to use it in? It's certainly the first I've heard of this, nobody tried to contact me about a problem?

Jungle · 1st February 2011, 14:27

tbh i cant remember the particulars it was about a year ago. I bought it off a lad with a 106 1.6 xs, its gone in my rallye. I never tried to contact you about it because it was easier just to get it sorted by Gaz.

Like i said not trying to rip you apart but excluding the bits that we changed, Gaz has replaced wires to crank sensor, coil pack and had to run a new earth to map sensor.

RustySkull · 1st February 2011, 14:35

I'm thinking about getting a Standalone for my new engine.

Are there any that are "Plug and Play" or do you have to wire them all in?

mark1311 · 1st February 2011, 14:37

only real plug in and play standalone is pred, but thts one for single plug engines.

RustySkull · 1st February 2011, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark1311

only real plug in and play standalone is pred, but thts one for single plug engines.

Woo!!

Lucky I decided to buy a Single plug engine lol I almost bought a 3 plug lol.

Thanks

mark1311 · 1st February 2011, 14:45

send luthor1 on here a pm about pred mate, he makes it ect best man to speak to about pred, good ecu simo has it on his turbo and lots of other members have it.

RustySkull · 1st February 2011, 14:47

I will do, thanks.

Sandy309 · 1st February 2011, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle

tbh i cant remember the particulars it was about a year ago. I bought it off a lad with a 106 1.6 xs, its gone in my rallye. I never tried to contact you about it because it was easier just to get it sorted by Gaz.

Like i said not trying to rip you apart but excluding the bits that we changed, Gaz has replaced wires to crank sensor, coil pack and had to run a new earth to map sensor.

I'm sorry, but I would like to know more if there has been a problem, but it sounds really vague and odd?!! Was it a DTA conversion or standard 16v into 8v, from what you're saying I don't even know if it was one of my looms, it wouldn't be the first time someone's passed off something else as one of mine. Any proper details, pictures etc would be appreciated, because I take problems extremely seriously and would like to know exactly what had gone wrong and if it was down to something I had done; or someone else trying to pass off an inferior loom as one of mine, or indeed someone trying to rubbish my work to sell their own.

Jungle · 1st February 2011, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy309

I'm sorry, but I would like to know more if there has been a problem, but it sounds really vague and odd?!! Was it a DTA conversion or standard 16v into 8v, from what you're saying I don't even know if it was one of my looms, it wouldn't be the first time someone's passed off something else as one of mine. Any proper details, pictures etc would be appreciated, because I take problems extremely seriously and would like to know exactly what had gone wrong and if it was down to something I had done; or someone else trying to pass off an inferior loom as one of mine, or indeed someone trying to rubbish my work to sell their own.

It was a DTA loom for a 1.6 8v. I cant get pictures because its on the car. I understand where you are coming from and i can see i wasnt mega clear with what i was posting earlier but im tired today lol.

You might be right i might have just been lied to about it bieng one of your looms.

Who would be trying to rubbish your work to sell there own? I dont make or sell looms myself.

I can see where this is going so what im going to do is delete my posts and just say that in my personal opinion GR looms are better quality. Unfortunately like you said it might no even be one of your looms but i got told it was and thats all ive got to base my opinion on.

Sandy309 · 1st February 2011, 19:10

That worries me greatly. I've been back through my notes and the only 1.6 XSI DTA loom I have done, as far as i can see, was James106XSI's E48 loom. I bought that car from him in 2010 and replaced that loom with a newer S40 one and destroyed the E48 loom, so I can't see that that was one of my looms. Furthermore, you mentioned the MAP sensor; I starting adding MAP as standard a few months back (for Baro correction option), but previously to that, the only looms that would have had MAP would have been the single inlet ones and I can list those that are more than a year old:

Dunc JP4 loom (still in use on the original car AFAIK)
Lee Madison J4 loom (still in use on the original car)

I don't know where this is going, but hopefully you can see why I'm a bit upset about this; it looks very much like my work is being slated on the basis of a loom I most likely didn't make or possibly one I did make, that was altered beyond my care. If you have any information about where you bought it from, any pictures of it, any information that might give me some idea, then I'd be very grateful. I'm also intruged about what the problem was that needed to be solved?

Sandy309 · 1st February 2011, 20:18

After asking around I think I've got to the bottom of this! It looks like you (Jungle) bought Neil Flint's XSi loom, that I did make. It was one of my early ones, that used standard wiring re-configured for the ECU, probably one of the last I did like that before I decided to go over to all new only wiring for the ECU, for the reasons detailed earlier in this thread. I'm sure of that, because Nick Charles' race car (in my Avatar) was done soon after and all new. The loom worked fine on Neil's car as I recall and I can remember were I was stood when I helped them get the TPS connected and get it running over the phone (Neil and "Semtex"), once it was running Semtex remarked that it ran better on my base map than his mapped engine, one of those remarks that stays with me!

Whatever the problems you had were, I would still be interested to know and I'm very sure I never fitted a MAP sensor connection on it. Certainly that style of "reconfigured" ECU loom is emphatically not representative of the type I produce now. A quick look at the pictures I attached earlier on this thread will clarify that.

jsdvtr · 4th February 2011, 11:25

If i wanted to build my own loom using a basic omex loom then adding plugs and tails onto it, where could i get all the fittings from?

Like the sandy loom with the big main plug by fusebox and all the plug and tails that fit onto the sensors? What would be used to cover the loom?

Sandy309 · 5th February 2011, 07:17

I get most of my stuff from www.polevolt.co.uk superb range, the right quality and excellent knowledge.

There are four main ways to cover the loom, easiest is tape, but it looks pretty gash on it's own. Convoluted tube is simple, tough and has excellent abrasion resistance, so good for the parts that run over castings. Fibre mesh is popular, but I don't like it because if any fluids get into it, it becomes very messy and horrible to handle; also doesn't support the wires very well at all.
Best of all IMO is heatshrink; supports the wires well, with twisted wires remains flexible and is dead easy to wipe clean if need be. 2-1 heat shrink (that's the maximum reduction in diameter) is pretty cheap and works well on leads that don't have the plug fitted yet, so good for scratch loom making. Higher ratios and adhesive lined get much more expensive, but can be used to reduce diameter and over plugs etc. It's common for heatshrink to be used to seal plugs, meaning the cheaper unsealed "JT" plugs can be used, but I favour the slightly more expensive option of "JPT" plugs that have seals and a rubber boot; they can be easily accessed/dismantled when fault finding or re-configuring the pins for sensor changes etc.
Wire wise, ordinary automotive wire, as sold by most motor factors etc, is pretty low quality and will corrode easily. Decent thinwall wire is the minimum standard really, Raychem wire as used in most manufacturer supplied aftermarket looms is considerably more expensive to buy in small quantities and in my humble opinion usually used in too small a size (to reduce cost), which can lead to "ghost" ECU and map problems/quirks that can often be cured with slightly larger convetional thinwall wire. I use Raychem 55 for the crank cable, because at the price it's the most reliable and tough screened signal wire that I've found, conventional 2 plus screen cable is usually good enough, but trying to cure signal interference problems once the loom has been installed can be misery, so it's good insurance.

Another tip that I'm probably going to get flamed by "experts" for, is to solder tip the wires. If you study loom making you will be told that soldering the terminals leads to work breakage. If the wire is inadequately supported and the solder allowed to wick down the wire too far, then that can be a problem, it makes the joint brittle. But if you solder only the tip and use the correct seals in the plugs to support the wire (so the soldered section never gets bent), then it provides far superior contact area between the wire and terminal and protects from corrosion; another cause of "ghost" problems. It takes much longer to do it this way, but if you want to make a loom that will remain reliable for years, it's a big head start.

jsdvtr · 5th February 2011, 09:25

Could you list the parts you use on your loom sandy? As can see relays, etc on yours too.

Its just i wouldnt mind doing a loom myself but whether i have the knowledge, etc to do it. If i was to buy the basic omex loom (£75 off ebay) with no plugs or tails, where could i get these from?

raunchz · 5th February 2011, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Could you list the parts you use on your loom sandy? As can see relays, etc on yours too.

Its just i wouldnt mind doing a loom myself but whether i have the knowledge, etc to do it. If i was to buy the basic omex loom (£75 off ebay) with no plugs or tails, where could i get these from?

It'll just be wire, heatshrink, plugs to suit the sensors you plan on connecting to the Ecu, then relays.

As sandy said above, use a high quality wire, good wore for cps, then you just need to sort wire lengths out, heatshrink and wire plugs up correctly.

IMO for the sake of a 200 pound or so I'd get Sandy to make the loom over getting a 'generic' omex loom.

You'll soon spend £200 on mapping if you have a problem with how you wired up the loom, or cps signal problems! Plus the longevity and reliability of the loom. Having spent hours in the past on peoples cars trying to find electricity problems, id pay an extra £200 to not stand in the cold/rain trying to fault find!

BUT if I had a unusual engine/sensor setup etc + genuinely wanted to learn about electronics etc. then I'd do it myself.

jsdvtr · 7th February 2011, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

It'll just be wire, heatshrink, plugs to suit the sensors you plan on connecting to the Ecu, then relays.

As sandy said above, use a high quality wire, good wore for cps, then you just need to sort wire lengths out, heatshrink and wire plugs up correctly.

IMO for the sake of a 200 pound or so I'd get Sandy to make the loom over getting a 'generic' omex loom.

You'll soon spend £200 on mapping if you have a problem with how you wired up the loom, or cps signal problems! Plus the longevity and reliability of the loom. Having spent hours in the past on peoples cars trying to find electricity problems, id pay an extra £200 to not stand in the cold/rain trying to fault find!

BUT if I had a unusual engine/sensor setup etc + genuinely wanted to learn about electronics etc. then I'd do it myself.

I would most likely go for a sandy loom but its a fair amount of money, nearly as much as the ecu. Just i fancy building my own for the satisfaction that ive built that and learning along the way but i would have a clue where to start, etc.

Sandy309 · 8th February 2011, 07:07

It's not rocket science and if you're fairly handy and methodical, it shouldn't be too hard to do. It is mostly labour and by doing it yourself you'll learn alot; making one for my own car is exactly how I started doing them. Having some idea of what materials to use and a good source is half the battle really, which hopefully I've given you.

jsdvtr · 8th February 2011, 08:06

You have given me alot more knowledge about it all nkw thanks. The hardestt bit i can think of is knowing which wires for which on say the basic omex loom with no plug or tails as theyre all just different colours and im guessing you couldnt just put any plug/tails for which ever sensors its going to on any wire?

When would you be able to start doing your looms when your not too busy if i do decide to get one from you over making my own?