Throttle bodies - Saxperience

wullvfr · 3rd August 2013, 19:59

I've tried looking and I can't find anything that really explains this but.......

What are the real advantages of having after market throttle bodies fitted over the std throttle body?

jeffchiz · 3rd August 2013, 20:05

more air being sucked in results in a bigger bang so more power

some cams require throttle bodies to run as a oem throttle body cant provide enough air

wullvfr · 3rd August 2013, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

more air being sucked in results in a bigger bang so more power

some cams require throttle bodies to run as a oem throttle body cant provide enough air

Is the std throttle body a single unit that feeds the 4 cylinders??

What about the ecu,I'm guessing its ok to run throttle bodies on a std ecu that's been remapped???

westy2k1 · 5th August 2013, 01:07

Hiya mate, many ppl on here myself included have had itb's and if your serious about getting them then think carefully about it, it gets expensive quickly. I'll give you my set up and approx cost. I'll only include things you will definitely need in my opinion for a proper and reliable setup.
Itb's themselves - I had jenvey bodies.
Custom or Lary cams to give much higher lift...itb's are useless without them
Stand alone ecu - I used omex 600, it makes mapping much easier and has far more parameters that can be altered as against standard ecu.
high comp pistons, rods and bolts due to rev limit usually being increased. I tanked a piston and had to source a new engine for a complete rebuild due to not using high comp internals so I highly recommend them.

I'll upload some pix of the damage it caused!
I had to have block bored to accommodate new Wossner pistons, custom inlet manifold. There are more bits and pieces too but it was a while ago I had it done and I don't own the car any more but the car is now competing in Malta in uphill rally climbs on tarmac and I stay in touch with the guy who bought it. Oh I needed a custom steel head gasket too to alter compression.

it's definitely quite involved, requires a lot of setup but sounds amazing and is fast. Cost me close to £6k for everything. I know people will say you can get it done cheaper but trust me budget for that as you never know what else u have to account for during having the work done and if u don't have any extra money and u didn't budget for the unknown you'll be left with half a job that you can't finish. Probably forgot loads but just trying to give you an idea of what you would be getting into.

hope some of this helps bud.

EDIT

Ps dates on pics are wrong

Paul^p · 5th August 2013, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by wullvfr

I've tried looking and I can't find anything that really explains this but.......

What are the real advantages of having after market throttle bodies fitted over the std throttle body?

Some engine specs require them.. Alot don't.

In my opinion you only need to look at throttlebodies if you're going to get some cams that need them. Ph3's / 708's (or similar cams) dont 'need' them and to me seems a waste of money, might aswell do the job properly and get some wilder cams but you'll have to look at uprating the internals.

wullvfr · 5th August 2013, 05:12

I like the idea of fitting ph3 cams as from what I gather I don't need to change anything else other than a remap to see good gains......is this correct?

greyjasper51 · 5th August 2013, 10:55

generally

ph3 newmans
induction kit
4-2-1 manifold
exhaust system
remap

should see about 150-155 bhp generally...

if you go throttle bodies over an induction kit youll maybe go 160?
with other work, such as head porting, higher rpm limit, maybe a jp4 head with j4 springs and buckets...

170?

these are all assuming a healthy bottom end...

beyond 170 youll be looking at serious cash, 2-3k+
pistons, rods, wilder cams...

westy2k1 · 5th August 2013, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyjasper51

generally

ph3 newmans
induction kit
4-2-1 manifold
exhaust system
remap

should see about 150-155 bhp generally...

if you go throttle bodies over an induction kit youll maybe go 160?
with other work, such as head porting, higher rpm limit, maybe a jp4 head with j4 springs and buckets...

170?

these are all assuming a healthy bottom end...

beyond 170 youll be looking at serious cash, 2-3k+
pistons, rods, wilder cams...

I had that exact setup except i used kent cams as the garage couldn't time up the newmans for some reason. Anyway i achieved 158bhp and then after the throttle body setup i posted above i achieved 183bhp. It is possible to achieve 200bhp but you need race cams and the car wouldn't be great on the road due to all the power being very high up the rev range it would definitely be more suited for track use.

greyjasper51 · 5th August 2013, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by westy2k1

I had that exact setup except i used kent cams as the garage couldn't time up the newmans for some reason. Anyway i achieved 158bhp and then after the throttle body setup i posted above i achieved 183bhp. It is possible to achieve 200bhp but you need race cams and the car wouldn't be great on the road due to all the power being very high up the rev range it would definitely be more suited for track use.

that inspires confidence for my build lol

wullvfr · 5th August 2013, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyjasper51

generally

ph3 newmans
induction kit
4-2-1 manifold
exhaust system
remap

should see about 150-155 bhp generally...

This is exactly what I'm aiming for,so I might just forget about throttle bodies and aim for this.

I've got my mind set on a saxsport 2" system with either a 4-1 or 4-2-1 manifold.whatever is available at the time.

I currently have a decat system fitted with a 3" back box fitted(not sure on make)but i will sell that on I think.

Ross^p · 6th August 2013, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by westy2k1

I had that exact setup except i used kent cams as the garage couldn't time up the newmans for some reason. Anyway i achieved 158bhp and then after the throttle body setup i posted above i achieved 183bhp. It is possible to achieve 200bhp but you need race cams and the car wouldn't be great on the road due to all the power being very high up the rev range it would definitely be more suited for track use.

Just wanted to mention that it's all in the design - Josh's saxo is 200+ bhp and drives real nice on the road. Sandy has done an excellent job making it a great all round car. There's a lot more to making a 200+ NA road car than the "usual" high comps, cams, ITB's route that most take and I think I see what you're saying - those that go that route and end up with a high peak power figure often find it's not as drivable. I'm just saying Josh's is

westy2k1 · 7th August 2013, 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Just wanted to mention that it's all in the design - Josh's saxo is 200+ bhp and drives real nice on the road. Sandy has done an excellent job making it a great all round car. There's a lot more to making a 200+ NA road car than the "usual" high comps, cams, ITB's route that most take and I think I see what you're saying - those that go that route and end up with a high peak power figure often find it's not as drivable. I'm just saying Josh's is

that's fair do's mate he obviously has an excellent setup. I know shorter trumpets, custom map and can't remember which mani but those 3 help bring power into a lower rev range but still not ideal for small places like where I live. If u have a city with big roads or carriage ways it's better suit but ny town is tiny lol.

westy2k1 · 7th August 2013, 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by wullvfr

This is exactly what I'm aiming for,so I might just forget about throttle bodies and aim for this.

I've got my mind set on a saxsport 2" system with either a 4-1 or 4-2-1 manifold.whatever is available at the time.

I currently have a decat system fitted with a 3" back box fitted(not sure on make)but i will sell that on I think.

To be fair mate mine was awesome before throttle bodies and I loved every minute, still embarrasses some suited sno nosed business men thinking they can put their foot down and pull away but when u turn the tables and pull away smirking it's a great feeling!