got any ideas?

[Mi5terSIR]

looking for the way forward of pulling a few more horses from my 1.4, please dont say get a vts lump, i dont want nor can afford nor find one around by me.

to start, specs

TU3JP silvertop

Kent PT40K (standard pulley and timing marks)
VTR inlet
K&N cone
piggyback i road mapped myself

i have a 4-2-1 mani for it, but im not really sure if there is much point in it, will i get much gains for it or will i get the same if i make merry with me die grinder, i should point out its not the first time i ported something, i was fortunate enough to be taught by a very good tuner, nigh on jesus that bloke!


also, any benefits from a port and polish on the head? or is it already a well sorted head? heard some heads dont gain much, i dont really know a lot about the Z06 head.

green valve springs from a 1.3 rallye engine, will they fit with no bother? i think i will benefit from stiffer springs having it be cammed and what not

any bottlenecks or sweetspots on her that will open her up lads?

its never been on a dyno. but if i was to guess, probably about 85 ish bhp? would like to get her up to 100 and ill be happy

cheers lads!
Ben

[Jigs2895]

As many will tell you over and over again, you're wasting your time.

Why spend in excess of £500 for 15bhp when you can fit a S lump for about £200 and have 35bhp more?

Many people go on about tuning a 8v engine and never do, as your soon realise, its just not cost effective.

[stevo67]

Fit the mani then pair it up with a decent exhaust system.Keep the car serviced properly cos it's no good doing performance mods unless it's serviced regularly.

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by Jigs2895

As many will tell you over and over again, you're wasting your time.

Why spend in excess of £500 for 15bhp when you can fit a S lump for about £200 and have 35bhp more?

Many people go on about tuning a 8v engine and never do, as your soon realise, its just not cost effective.

im doing the work myself, im not going to be spending a lot.

i personally dont like vts engines, dont know why, but i dont, 16v lumps have the power all up top, and thats not where i want it.

i feel im not wasting my time. any engine can be tuned and have good results, you just need to know what your doing.

i may seem a bit blunt/arsey but i am not going to fit a VTS engine. i dont want one. i would rather wipe the flor with someone and have them say "VTS lump?" and i will be more than pleased to say "Nope" pop the bonnet and they will see i titchy 8v'er, i would rather raise eyebrows than pupils, everyone does the VTS conversion, and its sooo boring, same old same old.

i appreciate where your coming from mate, but VTS i will not, i like to play with what i got, and besides, im not after a tarmac muncher, 100hp and ill be happy.

cheers for the input though!

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by stevo67

Fit the mani then pair it up with a decent exhaust system.Keep the car serviced properly cos it's no good doing performance mods unless it's serviced regularly.

i've always used shell helix ultra 5W-40 at 8000mi interverals, with genuine citroen oil filters valve clearances each month, im quite particular with it.

i will see about getting this mani fitted then, once i get some gaskets, for some reason toyosports didnt give me the gasket to the head, only the lower one

Cheers

[Jizanthapus]

Originally Posted by Mi5terSIR

i would rather wipe the flor with someone and have them say "VTS lump?" and i will be more than pleased to say "Nope" pop the bonnet and they will see i titchy 8v'er, i would rather raise eyebrows than pupils, everyone does the VTS conversion, and its sooo boring, same old same old.

First off, that would never happen - if you 'wipe the floor' with someone, they aren't going to pull over, compare engines, then suck you off because it's a 1.4.

Secondly, 'everyone' does the VTS conversion because it's a better engine and is cheaper and easier than trying to get the same performance from a 1.4 or 8v.

This topic comes up at least monthly, and I don't think I've ever seen someone go through with it. Prove us wrong

Also,

Originally Posted by Mi5terSIR

16v lumps have the power all up top, and thats not where i want it.

Get a turbo diesel then!

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by Jizanthapus

First off, that would never happen - if you 'wipe the floor' with someone, they aren't going to pull over, compare engines, then suck you off because it's a 1.4.

Secondly, 'everyone' does the VTS conversion because it's a better engine and is cheaper and easier than trying to get the same performance from a 1.4 or 8v.

This topic comes up at least monthly, and I don't think I've ever seen someone go through with it. Prove us wrong

Also,


Get a turbo diesel then!

jesus, i dont want a gobjob over wat im pulling lol, and ive seen plenty of 8v'ers make dinner of a VTS, and ive had a few ask me what i got, as it is quite quick as it is if i do say so myself, it responded quite well to minor mods.

i dont believe it is a defo better engine, remember it has the same bottom end as the 8v lumps, bar the pistons and floating wrist pins, it may be cheaper, but i really cannot be arsed converting it all for a 16v, a right pain.

i know it comes up often, and people dont follow through with it because they dont have the motivation. ill happily prove you wrong pal! either way, i will be tuning this engine, and like the germans, i dont do U-turns,

and you know what i mean!:L i dont really like dervs, 8v's are better in the lower rev range, as tuningfork said, driving the car on the road, you dont rev the tits off it, 4k and lower is where you use it, and thats were i want to keep the power really, i want a streetable engine that has a nice bit of power, hence why i didnt go mad with the cam, pt40k has opened up the engine nicely, while keeping it streetable.

mark my words, it will be a reasonably powerfull engine (which anyone can do) BUT having plenty of that power low down too (thats where most crop up) it sounds like having your cake and eating it, but its possible. and that is something a VTS engine cannot do, its all right up the bloody top, and that makes for a really crappy drive imo

[stevo67]

& all this is being declared to the insurance company?Well it'll give them something to laugh they're socks off at.Good luck with it & can I have 1st dibs on it when you see sense & break it?

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by stevo67

& all this is being declared to the insurance company?Well it'll give them something to laugh they're socks off at.Good luck with it & can I have 1st dibs on it when you see sense & break it?

yup. im not a dick. insurance know.

i can understand criticism, but there is such a thing as too much pal.
i dont appreciate that kind of comments. if i talk to people with respect i expect it back.

nobody gets dibs. mine! haha

[Pricklep]

Can't afford to look for a 16v but is willing to spend out on a 1.4..

Righto..

I personally wouldnt waste my time or money. Its doable as with any engine if you pour loads of money it but for what you'll gain, not worth it. Youve not even had it on a RR yet to see what its making.

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by Prickle

Can't afford to look for a 16v but is willing to spend out on a 1.4..

Righto..

I personally wouldnt waste my time or money. Its doable as with any engine if you pour loads of money it but for what you'll gain, not worth it. Youve not even had it on a RR yet to see what its making.

you missed out the fact that they are like hens teeth atm, everyone is buying them. and im also doing the work myself, onwards from here i dont think ill be spending too much, ill have it on a rr soon, and it will cost the same for me to get it on a rr 16v or not.

can everybody stop picking holes. im getting quite fed up of it. i clearly stated i DO NOT WANT a 16v lump. its not going to happen, so if anybody is going to comment, can it not be about the 16v, i wanted insight on the 1.4 8v, not the 16v, if i wanted to know about the 16v i would have specified so, is it so hard to grasp that THIS is the engine i am tuning, and that will not change.

i apologize if i sound annoyed. but i am, i mean, i specified i did not want a 16v engine, and i have my reasons that i spoke about earlier which i find are perfectly reasonable, yeh i could get more power with a 16v, but i dont want more power than 100 or so, i dont want something that will eat decent sports cars, i want something I will be happy with, and ill be happy with 100 or so bhp with a nice flexable powerband.

again, i apologize for my pissyness, but cmon guys, i have said it more than twice now, and nobody seems to be listening, i have took what everybody has said on board and considered it. all i ask is you all respect my decision to keep what i have.

[stevo67]

Originally Posted by Mi5terSIR

yup. im not a dick. insurance know.

i can understand criticism, but there is such a thing as too much pal.
i dont appreciate that kind of comments. if i talk to people with respect i expect it back.

nobody gets dibs. mine! haha

Just to set the record straight,at no point have I been abusive just tried to offer constructive advice as others have but it's fallen on deaf ears.As you have so much experience of tuning i'm surprised you even come on here for advice.Look up the word LOGIC.

[charlie2]

Well if you have a hi-lift can then surely a vernier pulley would be a good start.if its a mild can fitting heavy valve springs will lose power.you not thought of fitting bike carbs?.mate had an 8v 1400 Vauxhall with bike carbs and was producing 150bhp at fly with mild cam.lighten the flywheel, no power gain but will pick its feet up better in the first 3 gears.

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by stevo67

Just to set the record straight,at no point have I been abusive just tried to offer constructive advice as others have but it's fallen on deaf ears.As you have so much experience of tuning i'm surprised you even come on here for advice.Look up the word LOGIC.

i never said you was abusive, but cmon, you took the piss a bit, im not stupid mate...you try telling me that there was nothing snarky about what you said.

never said i had masses if experience. never said i was god almighty, hence why i asked for insight from some other people who probably know a lot more about these engines than i do, i understand i have a lot to learn, but everybody does, i never claimed to be something im not, and i wont start with that today.

i asked for something very simple, some insight as to what more i could do to the engine. it did not fall of deaf ears, as i said, i considered the 16v conversion, i have done for a while now and have been discussing for a bit, but i have decided it would not achieve what i want, i've had a few goes of some VTS's, i have a good few mates with VTS's, and they were kind enough to let me have a go, and from that, i made my mind up of what i wanted. a 16v is more of a higher revving engine that has its power up the higher revs. and that i not what i want, i want a nice bit of power, which also has a bit of low down power too, and im not asking too much of it, its been done before, with these engines and other engines of the 8v format.

i dont see why its so difficult for you to grasp that i do not want the 16v engine, i have stated what im trying to achieve, and what i have will be a better base for that.

i have tried my best to be respectful of you opinion, but you have been a bit ignorant about it, and just pushed on with the 16v thing, completely ignoring what i was saying.

again, i apologize for being like this, but at the end of the day, its not just me who would be a bit iffy by now.

all i asked for was for some insight on this engine, my original post even stated that i wont be doing a 16v conversion, am i missing something here?

i understand that yes, i will have more power if i went 16v, but im not chasing hp numbers here, im trying to achieve something else.

just sweep it under the carpet and continue on with where we were. ill be mature about it if you will too.

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by charlie2

Well if you have a hi-lift can then surely a vernier pulley would be a good start.if its a mild can fitting heavy valve springs will lose power.you not thought of fitting bike carbs?.mate had an 8v 1400 Vauxhall with bike carbs and was producing 150bhp at fly with mild cam.lighten the flywheel, no power gain but will pick its feet up better in the first 3 gears.

aha. didnt think of a vernier! i will bear that in mind, cheers

i have heard that the valvesprings on the silvertop were a bit soft, and thats why i was considering stronger springs to keep valve float at bay, although im not really sure when that becomes a problem, as it having a lumpier cam, the rev limit will probably have to go up a little to make the most of it at full chat, although im not really sure when it starts to tail off the power really, kent say the powerband is up to 6500, and iirc, this has a limit of 6250 or something of that nature, and i wanted to be 100% sure, but i will bear that in mind, i can see how stronger springs would lose me a bit, parasitic drag is the only way i can think of describing it.

the bike carbs i could try! but i would like to go individual throttle bodies seeming as i have a piggyback which i could probably make play ball with them, and i suppose i would keep some driveability with them, which from what i understand bike carbs are a bit of a pig to set up right, and dont really like elevation changes or drastic changes in weather, with the fuel injection being more adaptable from what i understand, but please do prove me wrong if i got anything wrong

cheers!

[Mi5terSIR]

Originally Posted by charlie2

Well if you have a hi-lift can then surely a vernier pulley would be a good start.if its a mild can fitting heavy valve springs will lose power.you not thought of fitting bike carbs?.mate had an 8v 1400 Vauxhall with bike carbs and was producing 150bhp at fly with mild cam.lighten the flywheel, no power gain but will pick its feet up better in the first 3 gears.

i only just noticed, 150 at the fly from a 1.4? bloody hell, that must have been a very well sorted engine. fair play to him!

[Quick]

Boost??
NOS?
JATO?

[stevo67]

Originally Posted by Quick

Boost??
NOS?
JATO?

I think these are the best options,certainly cost wise.

[Gandi699]

if you are aiming for 100 bhp then fit an xsi or rallye head with its associated ECU, loom and inlet with wiring mods to splice it into your cars body loom.
Would save yourself a heap of a money time and effort as to me it seems pointless to be modifying all and sundry with your current engine and head when there are oem parts available that do the job better and cheaper and are a better base to start the modifying from plus rallye heads generally fetch decent money when rebuilt properly so you wont really lose anything if you break it for parts

[charlie2]

Originally Posted by Mi5terSIR

i only just noticed, 150 at the fly from a 1.4? bloody hell, that must have been a very well sorted engine. fair play to him!

It had piper 285 cam vernier pulley,stainless valves,head ported by me,compression raised to 10.5:1,std bottom end,std ignition,4 branch into an Ashley system.ran faultlessly and won many class stage rallys.ran mint any weather with bike carbs and gave great torque.setup by bogg bros.sounds like dyno time would be best but costly.power doesn't come cheap.