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Saxo Engine/Performance If you're interested in tuning Saxo engines, or if you need to know something which is engine related... this is the place for you.

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Old 12th June 2017, 14:51   #1
smokeandpoke
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Default which headgasket?!

Afternoon


Had my JP4 head skimmed for use on a J4 block.
For now, I'm planning on running it n/a just to let any problems worm their way out.

Am I correct in thinking I need to use the JP4 haedgasket for clearance?
Also, when I had it skimmed the bloke didn't give me a measurement he just described it as a 'light skim'


Therefore I have various queries...

A) Will I get away with one headgasket
B) Will it run okay if I double them up now in anticipation for turbo time, or will this cause more harm than good and is generally frowned upon? I'm sure people have got away with half a bar on double gaskets?


Thanks guys

Last edited by smokeandpoke; 12th June 2017 at 14:55.
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Old 12th June 2017, 22:19   #2
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Doubling gaskets isn't really ideal.
How much power and torque are you looking for?
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Old 13th June 2017, 08:34   #3
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dry build engine to see
refit head with old gasket --just nip it down +time up cams
having already put a lump of clay ontop of a piston --turn engine over 2 turns by hand with no plugs in it -remove head and see how much clearnace you have --by thickness of clay
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Old 14th June 2017, 15:06   #4
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Doubling gaskets isn't really ideal.
How much power and torque are you looking for?
I'd be happy with 200bhp on a safe 7psi. Might be a tad optimistic.
Want it to be reliable enough that it starts and runs every time, a few times a week. Just want it to be good fun, I'm not trying to push it or blow it up.

I've spoken to a few people and apparently running double gaskets on a n/a set up (just to get it on the road and find any other little niggles) will wreak havoc on the engine. I understand it will lower compression a tad but wasn't too sure how much it would effect it in the meantime until its all built.

I know the proper way to do it is decomp plate, I was just trying to save wasting a headgasket and having to buy a second set of headbolts!

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Old 14th June 2017, 15:11   #5
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Originally Posted by axsaxoman View Post
dry build engine to see
refit head with old gasket --just nip it down +time up cams
having already put a lump of clay ontop of a piston --turn engine over 2 turns by hand with no plugs in it -remove head and see how much clearnace you have --by thickness of clay
I have since spoken to the engineer and he said it was literally just a clean up.
He said running a standard gasket will give it a bit of a tweak - as the C/R will be a touch lower, but he doesn't specialise in citroens so I don't think he understands the different clearances between the engines.

Clay idea seems a very safe and sensible way to check, I shall bear that in mind! Either way, it will need a new gasket as I understand I should use the corresponding gasket for that particular head - in my case I should use a jp4 head.

I think I will have to check the clearance with standard gasket as you have stated - I just wondered what people used as the norm when completing this conversion. I should have thought a +0.2 gasket should suffice (without checking it)



While I've got you - are you in agreement that running double gaskets to decomp the engine (as you would for a budget turbo build) whilst running N/A will upset the engine?
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:16   #6
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7psi max and correct ecu mods --no need to lower comp ratio
modern OEM turbo cars run 10/1 comp ratio and 1bar of boost
old wrc cars ran 3 bar of boost +10/1 comp --so its all in the ecu +turbo control
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Old 19th June 2017, 14:54   #7
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7psi max and correct ecu mods --no need to lower comp ratio
modern OEM turbo cars run 10/1 comp ratio and 1bar of boost
old wrc cars ran 3 bar of boost +10/1 comp --so its all in the ecu +turbo control
Will be getting hold of a standalone ECU as I believe the 5th injector method to be a bit grimy and totally 90's!!

I was not aware the standard engine would take boost at standard compression, I would be lowering merely as a precaution?
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Old 19th June 2017, 19:26   #8
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Originally Posted by smokeandpoke View Post
Will be getting hold of a standalone ECU as I believe the 5th injector method to be a bit grimy and totally 90's!!

I was not aware the standard engine would take boost at standard compression, I would be lowering merely as a precaution?
The standard ECU can be mapped to work with boost. just need a map which reads postive pressure.

I've seen it! someone did it with their red C2


compression isn't a huge factor, fuel type, quantity, air temp and ignition timing I think affect how much boost you can use more - things which affect knock. I'll get corrected no doubt, I'm pretty clueless. I'm a diesel man at heart and i upped my compression to 25:1... with boost
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Old 20th June 2017, 15:09   #9
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The standard ECU can be mapped to work with boost. just need a map which reads postive pressure.

I've seen it! someone did it with their red C2


compression isn't a huge factor, fuel type, quantity, air temp and ignition timing I think affect how much boost you can use more - things which affect knock. I'll get corrected no doubt, I'm pretty clueless. I'm a diesel man at heart and i upped my compression to 25:1... with boost

Really? I'm sure someone could do it, but for the time and effort (and effectiveness) I would probably still go standalone unless it is considerably cheaper than a standalone.

25:1 on a saxo? wow!
That's nothing for a diesel, but I am surprised your saxo didn't turn itself inside out hahaha!!
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Old 20th June 2017, 16:17   #10
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Mine is running standard ecu with a 2 bar map sensor Wayne from chipwizards Is the man to see
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Old 20th June 2017, 21:18   #11
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Mine is running standard ecu with a 2 bar map sensor Wayne from chipwizards Is the man to see
Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeandpoke View Post
Really? I'm sure someone could do it, but for the time and effort (and effectiveness) I would probably still go standalone unless it is considerably cheaper than a standalone.

25:1 on a saxo? wow!
That's nothing for a diesel, but I am surprised your saxo didn't turn itself inside out hahaha!!
Of course having your standard ECU mapped to accept boost is WAY cheaper. it'll cost you a sensor, some injectors and a day on dyno.

Yes 23:1 standard 1.5D, it's indirect injection
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Old 20th June 2017, 21:35   #12
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Yes!



Of course having your standard ECU mapped to accept boost is WAY cheaper. it'll cost you a sensor, some injectors and a day on dyno.

Yes 23:1 standard 1.5D, it's indirect injection
Oh sorry I assumed petrol!

I didn't think there were many people that could do it, if you know of anyone in the south east get them to get in touch!!

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Old 20th June 2017, 21:42   #13
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Mine is running standard ecu with a 2 bar map sensor Wayne from chipwizards Is the man to see
Sorry Craig didn't see this mate.
Where abouts is wayne based?

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Old 21st June 2017, 05:01   #14
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Sorry Craig didn't see this mate.
Where abouts is wayne based?

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Near Wigan mate bit Of a drive for u but worth it
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Old 21st June 2017, 10:24   #15
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207 map sensor by any chance craig?
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Old 21st June 2017, 12:30   #16
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207 map sensor by any chance craig?
correct mate also found on a Mini Cooper s and ds3
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Old 21st June 2017, 12:39   #17
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correct mate also found on a Mini Cooper s and ds3
Nice one mate, solid starting point. I assume it's off the thp one?

Adam my fountain of knowledge as usual!!!!

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Old 22nd June 2017, 12:15   #18
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Adam my fountain of knowledge as usual!!!!

"blushes"

Yea 1.6 THP, doesn't matter which BHP version


PSA 207GTI 1.6 THP
Citroen/Peugeot = Part Number = 1992 R6
BMW/Mini = Part Number = 62 7 535 069 / 13627535069

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Old 22nd June 2017, 12:18   #19
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"blushes"

Yea 1.6 THP, doesn't matter which BHP version
Haha you tart!!!
Awesome. I may look into that if I can find someone down this end of the country, gave him a Google and it's a good 4 and a bit hours each way.


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