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Saxo Engine/Performance If you're interested in tuning Saxo engines, or if you need to know something which is engine related... this is the place for you.

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Old 3rd May 2010, 22:57   #1
mclarenmatt
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Default 'R PH3 Cams

Hi all,

After FCS it's likely I will cam my 'R with some Newman PH3 cam's. Before anyone say's just get an 'S I can't due to insurance and I would rather cam my 'R and buy a much better car in the future ...

I have a few questions I was hoping you lovely Sax-P people could answer for me

I take it there shouldn't be any problems with MOT such as emissions? Also it says these retain a smooth idle but am I right in thinking it would be better to unlock my ECU and get it mapped? For the idle and getting the max power out of them?

Lastly I have been told you should uprate the valve springs? I know people have run them on OEM before but for a few £ more is it worth it?

I have the silvertop 'R engine.

Cheers,

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Old 4th May 2010, 10:14   #2
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Anyone?
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Old 4th May 2010, 10:41   #3
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Originally Posted by mclarenmatt View Post
Hi all,

After FCS it's likely I will cam my 'R with some Newman PH3 cam's. Before anyone say's just get an 'S I can't due to insurance and I would rather cam my 'R and buy a much better car in the future ...

I have a few questions I was hoping you lovely Sax-P people could answer for me

I take it there shouldn't be any problems with MOT such as emissions? Also it says these retain a smooth idle but am I right in thinking it would be better to unlock my ECU and get it mapped? For the idle and getting the max power out of them?

Lastly I have been told you should uprate the valve springs? I know people have run them on OEM before but for a few £ more is it worth it?

I have the silvertop 'R engine.

Cheers,

Matthew.

hi Matthew,

come MOT time emissions shouldnt be a problem with the PH3 camshaft provided a CAT is present, im pretty sure the PH3 is near the limit for a standard bottom end due to piston/valve clearences.

personaly i would buy new valve springs when fitting the camshaft dont cut corners, but it depends on budget and how much time you can have the car off the road, if you havent got a valve spring remover, you can get them removed/re-fitted when getting the head skimmed to make sure you get a perfect mate when re-fitting.
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Old 4th May 2010, 13:24   #4
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hi Matthew,

come MOT time emissions shouldnt be a problem with the PH3 camshaft provided a CAT is present, im pretty sure the PH3 is near the limit for a standard bottom end due to piston/valve clearences.

personaly i would buy new valve springs when fitting the camshaft dont cut corners, but it depends on budget and how much time you can have the car off the road, if you havent got a valve spring remover, you can get them removed/re-fitted when getting the head skimmed to make sure you get a perfect mate when re-fitting.
Thanks for the reply

How likely is the bottom end to fail and what would be done if I had the bottom end uprated for the cam?

Valve springs are a defo if I purchase a PH3 cam, might aswell do it properly.

Do you know if I would need a remap on the ECU?

Cheers,

Matthew.
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Old 5th May 2010, 15:02   #5
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Old 5th May 2010, 15:22   #6
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The bottom end won't fail, he just means that silvertop camshafts that are available wilder than PH3 spec likely need pocketed pistons.

Get some uprated valve springs from Piper (~£60) and a vernier pulley. Fit the cam to standard timing then have the timing tweaked on the rolling road. No need for a remap with the PH3 imo, although others may tell you different.

I ran a similar spec Kent cam with standard valve springs on the standard map - car made 118bhp at the fly after having the timing tweaked.
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Old 5th May 2010, 15:28   #7
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The bottom end won't fail, he just means that silvertop camshafts that are available wilder than PH3 spec likely need pocketed pistons.

Get some uprated valve springs from Piper (~£60) and a vernier pulley. Fit the cam to standard timing then have the timing tweaked on the rolling road. No need for a remap with the PH3 imo, although others may tell you different.

I ran a similar spec Kent cam with standard valve springs on the standard map - car made 118bhp at the fly after having the timing tweaked.
Was there much difference between standard and with the cam fitted? Thinking about doing this also in the near future but want to know if its worth it or not. My 'R seems to go pretty well compared to others already but want it a little faster. I'm pretty clued up on most other stuff but would you say it was worth it from experience?
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Old 5th May 2010, 17:53   #8
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Was there much difference between standard and with the cam fitted? Thinking about doing this also in the near future but want to know if its worth it or not. My 'R seems to go pretty well compared to others already but want it a little faster. I'm pretty clued up on most other stuff but would you say it was worth it from experience?
A 98bhp VTR (same as mine) with similar breathing mods did a run a few minutes after me - 110bhp at the fly... meaning mine gained 8bhp from the cam. It could have been placebo, but it did have a little bit more mid range grunt and it didn't feel 'out of breath' higher in the revs like standard VTRs do.

For the effort and money it cost, I'd say it wasn't worth it at all. To make the most of the shifted power, you ideally want something like a VTS/ S2 Rallye/ 1.4 XSi gearbox too.

In short: 16V conversion is what you want.
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Old 5th May 2010, 18:54   #9
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A 98bhp VTR (same as mine) with similar breathing mods did a run a few minutes after me - 110bhp at the fly... meaning mine gained 8bhp from the cam. It could have been placebo, but it did have a little bit more mid range grunt and it didn't feel 'out of breath' higher in the revs like standard VTRs do.

For the effort and money it cost, I'd say it wasn't worth it at all. To make the most of the shifted power, you ideally want something like a VTS/ S2 Rallye/ 1.4 XSi gearbox too.

In short: 16V conversion is what you want.
Thats all I wanted to know thanks, having had a go in a standard VTS there seemed hardly any difference than my 'R. Kind of put me off buying a VTS then so i'm sticking with the VTR for the time being. Only difference was there was a lot more power in low revs such as being in 5th @ 50mph, foot down and it will accelerate. In the VTR it doesn't tend to go anywhere without changing to 3rd say.

Thanks though, I was already planning an XSi box anyway. I would go for an S1 but its probably too short for a VTR on standard rev limit, plus i'm sure it would drink fuel lol.
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Old 5th May 2010, 19:04   #10
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I thought the same when I first stepped into a standard VTS from a cammed VTR. Once you adjust and change your driving style, you'll never want to go back to a VTR. Unfortunately, you do get royally shafted on tax with 2001+ VTS'.
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Old 5th May 2010, 19:52   #11
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Hey, dint want 2 start a new thread to ask the same questions but i have found these on cam racing http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.php...camshafts.html does this kit include everything i need 2 cam my 2000 reg 1.4 furio???
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Old 5th May 2010, 19:54   #12
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2000 reg will be a silver top engine with roller rockers IIRC. The cam you've linked is for a black top with non-roller rockers.

If your engine is a silver top, you want the PH3 for roller rockers.
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Old 5th May 2010, 19:58   #13
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O.k i see lol, cheers.. http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.php...camshafts.html these are what am wantin then, will this kit include pulleys, valve springs ???
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Old 5th May 2010, 23:32   #14
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O.k i see lol, cheers.. http://www.kamracing.co.uk/index.php...camshafts.html these are what am wantin then, will this kit include pulleys, valve springs ???
no it won't include anything but a camshaft.
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Old 5th May 2010, 23:47   #15
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O.k, sorry if im hassling but how much you think ill be looking for a full setup then ?? camshaft, valve springs and pulleys???? does'nt matter if you dont know
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Old 5th May 2010, 23:49   #16
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Camshaft ~ £200.
Valve springs ~£60.
Vernier pulley ~£100.
Head gasket and head bolts ~£100.
Also need oil, coolant etc.

Then labour and dyno time to adjust the timing. Expensive for very little gain imo.
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Old 5th May 2010, 23:50   #17
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just save the money...

its the better option in every way
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Old 5th May 2010, 23:52   #18
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Woow was'nt expecting that much :o you dont really see much gain either lol
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