Turbo, Carbs, Throttle Bodies, Boost??? - Page 5 - Saxperience

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxic

Sounds like TB are just a waste of money then so why do people rave on about them

Nope, just people don't make the most of them.

Bodies allow you to run wild cams (which it's alot harder to do on standard inlet without getting serious scavenging of some cylinders). People think that bolting on some tbs to a car running some 708s will suddenly give them another 5 million bhp..

A well set up na saxo can be a very capable car, and as said previously responds totally differently to a boosted one, but then it depends if you want to spec an engine set up what's right for you or just keep sticking it on rolling roads to cock wave.

dannygti · 8th September 2011, 19:48

Ryan, your engine is one of the few
That I would say has a DRASTIC improvent over standard.. Alex b's is the other but these are 5k+ engines..
A turbo conversion is a good way for someone without that budget to make that power and more torque.. That's another good option surely?

Also the willy waving comment can be said for a lot of people, there's people who have had a high performance n/a engine built to get those nice peak figures etc

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Ryan, your engine is one of the few
That I would say has a DRASTIC improvent over standard.. Alex b's is the other but these are 5k+ engines..
A turbo conversion is a good way for someone without that budget to make that power and more torque.. That's another good option surely?

Also the willy waving comment can be said for a lot of people, there's people who have had a high performance n/a engine built to get those nice peak figures etc

Mine was well over the 5k figure but as I said earlier it's relatively out of date now compared to those built on alot less of a budget. I'm sure if Ian was building it again it would be done alot differently. Some prefer a more linar power delivery over something that shoves you in the back, others want to be revving it's tits off, some want power from 2-6k so many variables to consider and in reality neither is the best for everyone.

Look at the engines out there and you can get alot of power with say, jp4 head, pistons and still staying hydro cams (ph4/734 variants). Bike bodies plus something like a predator means power can be had for very good money.

As I said though I'm not slagging off turbos, personally I'd go supercharger but it's down to what people want from an engine, some seem to ignore some of the big positives about bodies just by looking at a peak bhp figure.

mangojace · 8th September 2011, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Mine was well over the 5k figure but as I said earlier it's relatively out of date now compared to those built on alot less of a budget. I'm sure if Ian was building it again it would be done alot differently. Some prefer a more linar power delivery over something that shoves you in the back, others want to be revving it's tits off, some want power from 2-6k so many variables to consider and in reality neither is the best for everyone.

Look at the engines out there and you can get alot of power with say, jp4 head, pistons and still staying hydro cams (ph4/734 variants). Bike bodies plus something like a predator means power can be had for very good money.

As I said though I'm not slagging off turbos, personally I'd go supercharger but it's down to what people want from an engine, some seem to ignore some of the big positives about bodies just by looking at a peak bhp figure.

What was yours pushing btw? Saw a nice video of yours on photobucket a few months back and sounded nice!

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangojace

What was yours pushing btw? Saw a nice video of yours on photobucket a few months back and sounded nice!

Depends on the rollers lol...

It made 186 a month ago on hard rollers, higher on other rollers... Either way it's a bit different to standard.

But as said previously probably spec wise has alot of room for improvements if I can be arsed.

dannygti · 8th September 2011, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Mine was well over the 5k figure but as I said earlier it's relatively out of date now compared to those built on alot less of a budget. I'm sure if Ian was building it again it would be done alot differently. Some prefer a more linar power delivery over something that shoves you in the back, others want to be revving it's tits off, some want power from 2-6k so many variables to consider and in reality neither is the best for everyone.

Look at the engines out there and you can get alot of power with say, jp4 head, pistons and still staying hydro cams (ph4/734 variants). Bike bodies plus something like a predator means power can be had for very good money.

As I said though I'm not slagging off turbos, personally I'd go supercharger but it's down to what people want from an engine, some seem to ignore some of the big positives about bodies just by looking at a peak bhp figure.

Yes ry your cost more than 5k, was the best parts back when it was built. Granted a 200hp can be built for less now but your still talking 5k

I don't think the 734's, pistons bodies make for 'that' fast a car tbh, paulm had that spec and with due respect to Paul it was
That fast.. Where when I drove toads car it was FAST!! I really do think you need to spend the extra to get the big performance... But that's just me, I've been spoilt by driving some very fast cars and perhaps I need a little more to get the right sensations?

One thing i will say is so long as you enjoy the car then it's all good...

I've been having naughty thoughts of a 106 with ford duratec engine and 270hp on bodies with sequential but that's for another time

hard_corejoeboy · 8th September 2011, 20:04

What i've realised since this thread.

If you want supercharged get a cooper s
If you want turbocharged get a supra

If you want throttle bodies in a tin can:

Get a saxo!

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Yes ry your cost more than 5k, was the best parts back when it was built. Granted a 200hp can be built for less now but your still talking 5k

I don't think the 734's, pistons bodies make for 'that' fast a car tbh, paulm had that spec and with due respect to Paul it was
That fast.. Where when I drove toads car it was FAST!! I really do think you need to spend the extra to get the big performance... But that's just me, I've been spoilt by driving some very fast cars and perhaps I need a little more to get the right sensations?

One thing i will say is so long as you enjoy the car then it's all good...

I've been having naughty thoughts of a 106 with ford duratec engine and 270hp on bodies with sequential but that's for another time

Was Paul driving as that prob didn't help haha...

His engine wasn't alot diff to toads really, daves was ph4, pistons and a jp4 head (after a brilliant engine builder destroyed the old head/bottom end). Its not got solids a really laity exhaust manifold etc...

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

What i've realised since this thread.

If you want supercharged get a cooper s
If you want turbocharged get a supra

If you want throttle bodies in a tin can:

Get a saxo!

Supra? One of the biggest barges out there? Cooper s - where the standard charger is a piece of shit? (hence why alot get sold on eBay cheap)..

dannygti · 8th September 2011, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Was Paul driving as that prob didn't help haha...

His engine wasn't alot diff to toads really, daves was ph4, pistons and a jp4 head (after a brilliant engine builder destroyed the old head/bottom end). Its not got solids a really laity exhaust manifold etc...

Lol ain't saying nothin

Don't know why but toads just felt rapid, not sure if it was because it was very light?

Really most tb'd cars with normal cams etc
Make between 120-135@wheels, then the ones with pistons + better cams make 135-150@wheels would you agree but for some reason toads makes 166@wheels... That's a strong engine.

Ross dagleys (granted lot spent) made over 200@wheels at just 5psi and it probably makes that from 3.5k all the way to 7k... That's a good spread right there lol

scot-ish · 8th September 2011, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

What i've realised since this thread.

If you want supercharged get a cooper s
If you want turbocharged get a supra

If you want throttle bodies in a tin can:

Get a saxo!

your an idiot, not one of your posts has been relative to the thread title, you go on and on about driver driver driver, and yer probably shite driver. get over it, and start yer own thread about driving tuition or summit.

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Lol ain't saying nothin

Don't know why but toads just felt rapid, not sure if it was because it was very light?

Really most tb'd cars with normal cams etc
Make between 120-135@wheels, then the ones with pistons + better cams make 135-150@wheels would you agree but for some reason toads makes 166@wheels... That's a strong engine.

Ross dagleys (granted lot spent) made over 200@wheels at just 5psi and it probably makes that from 3.5k all the way to 7k... That's a good spread right there lol

Cam profile... And as usual the joys of inlet/exhaust lengths and bore etc...More important I'm sure you would agree in an na set up than boost, then mapping on top for both can equally make or break an engine. Like I said earlier most ignore the main benefit of the bodies and just slap them onto some 708s thinking it will suddenly transform the car. Much like how some think slapping a whopping great turbo on is the way to go ignoring the flow rates and way it will also perform.

Again though that engine (dave/Alex) isn't or could be replicated for alot less than 5k, you can get away without rods, and Alex is now using bike bodies etc.. It was just at the time poor dave got a bit raped by the company.

It's all horses for courses as said, some dont want a large chunk of torque kicking in on track etc... (as I say spec an engine to a driving style and habit). Which sadly on here seems to get overlooked and some people just slate one and bang on about another...

J222JRA · 8th September 2011, 20:31

My advice to anyone thinking of doing engine work is to experience both boost and n/a in a saxo and see what you prefer.

I have.........both are epic, but for me it has to be N/A ( a proper build not a mild one)

dannygti · 8th September 2011, 20:41

Ryan, Alex has my old bodies and they are a decent bit of kit..

Having tried both in the same car I will give my opinion when people ask,, from a performance point of view the throttle bodies are WAY off the pace, in another league, even to toads car.! There's no escaping that..

From a noise, fun, value, feel point if view then that's entirely opinion.

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Ryan, Alex has my old bodies and they are a decent bit of kit

I know he does, but they're considerably cheaper than a set of say shiny ATs and yet don't seem to have dropped the power off going on the same rollers.

hence saying these days na tuning isn't as pricey as it was say 5 years ago.

dannygti · 8th September 2011, 20:50

Actually Ry those bodies would cost more than at power new. The kit was £2k but it had ecu etc

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Actually Ry those bodies would cost more than at power new. The kit was £2k but it had ecu etc

2k kit? Thought they were a set of bike bodies? Which used can get for very very cheap.

Or is the price to replace the bodies from a dealership?

dannygti · 8th September 2011, 20:55

No mate they are proper webcon bodies, come with everything.. Nice
Bit of kit, nicer than most Jenveys etc come powder coated. 2k would be for a turnkey throttle body setup including ecu' injectors, breathers, trumpets etc. They don't male the
For the TU though

toxic · 8th September 2011, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Nope, just people don't make the most of them.

Bodies allow you to run wild cams (which it's alot harder to do on standard inlet without getting serious scavenging of some cylinders). People think that bolting on some tbs to a car running some 708s will suddenly give them another 5 million bhp..

A well set up na saxo can be a very capable car, and as said previously responds totally differently to a boosted one, but then it depends if you want to spec an engine set up what's right for you or just keep sticking it on rolling roads to cock wave.

million bhp lol

Ryan^p · 8th September 2011, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

No mate they are proper webcon bodies, come with everything.. Nice
Bit of kit, nicer than most Jenveys etc come powder coated. 2k would be for a turnkey throttle body setup including ecu' injectors, breathers, trumpets etc. They don't male the
For the TU though

Fair enough thought he had bike bodies on there now you see. Again though they can be got cheap and as sandy is showing can make some good power on various engines.

It's a shame the kms ones are no more, they were pretty good value at the time.