Suspension setups - Saxperience

jsdvtr · 10th November 2010, 08:18

I would like to know what suspension setups people are running for track use. Just give some people an idea on what are good out on track and what are not.

• What do you think to it?
• What you could improve on it i.e. Stiffer springs or dampers and so on?
• What do you plan on to make current setup better?

I think if you could go into fairly good detail also rather than just being like a thread on the suspension section on the main forum.

jsdvtr · 10th November 2010, 08:26

I was running apex -50mm for road use with rear to match, it was a very good setup for the road but i think out on track it wouldnt cut it. I have now uprated to gaz front dampers, custom 300lb springs and built in camber in the struts which is near 4 degree's i believe and gaz gold rears to fit. I havent yet tried as cars currently off road.

I will be looking at getting my polyrace front wishbone bushes fitted. Buying a new refurbed rear beam with polyrace beam bushes and some 23mm torsion bars and some solid top mounts for the front.
I think this will be a very good setup for track use along with semi slicks.

AndySAXO^p · 10th November 2010, 08:42

Polyrace are the best bushes, should help lower strut brace, sound good.

I am using for next year,

AST sportline 1all round, away Being services at the moment.

Will AST 325 lb spring on front coilover.

Rear 22mm torsion bars, lowered max 30mm.

Before it was the same but with 200 lb springs, which was good, but still got abit of body roll.

jsdvtr · 10th November 2010, 08:54

A few on shed said the gaz setup is pretty much on par with the ast setup. I was thinking of chainging the struts to coilovers but i wouldnt gain anything although the springs on front are fairly low, lower than my -50mm apex.

AndySAXO^p · 10th November 2010, 10:26

Hmm yer well no few lads with the gaz was good, I got my Ast at a price that worked out cheaper all round for Ast than the gaz setup.

I really rate the Ast but wouldn't go any lower than 40mm max the drive shaft angle will be really bad, and could lose alot of transmission.

AndySAXO^p · 10th November 2010, 10:27

My car handles alot better the higher I was, I was down 50mm and it was nt as good as i am now at 30mm made I good diffenance

jsdvtr · 10th November 2010, 10:31

Well i am yet to test them out but i cant wait to try the car out with them on. Well the price its cost me for these is lile half the price of full gold setup or ast so its a bargain for setup nearly as good. I also have got to spend like £250+ on ast top mounts to get some decent camber.

Reechard · 10th November 2010, 10:57

Im currently running 35mm pi springs on standard dmapers, with the rear down to match.
Flow flex ARB bushes on the front and flow flex rear beam bushes.

It was alright on track, still some roll due to the spring and damper set up. Was only temporary though.

Got some Bilstein Group N dampers for the front, need to find some rears.
I have some faulkner 6" springs that are 275lb but not sure if I am going to run these or have some different ones made up.

Will be testing at Llandow in Feb and then Castle Combe next year. Cars being rebuilt currently.

Harv · 10th November 2010, 12:21

Spax PSX kit. Seems perfectly fine even running semi-slicks. I don't feel the need to spend an extra £500 on what I've already got at this moment in time really, especially as its a daily car too.

My advice to anyone starting out would be too buy a budget but decent kit - 'apex or spax' and give them a go on track. The extra £500 you could in theory spend could be wisely spent on track time and with experience you will be faster with a 'budget kit' than a novice with the best suspension in the world! Its all about trying stuff out and tweaking things to how you like it.

I have to agree though, the Gaz Gold stuff and AST setups are very good its just as I'm a student I can't warrant spending that much for the sake of saving a second a lap or so lol. Jsd - the camber on your car is nuts (was looking at your updates on shed a while ago), will be fun driving that at high speeds haha!

AndySAXO^p · 10th November 2010, 13:31

Hmm would say a well setup suspension it one off the most important thing

I used apex suspension and I disnt like it too much body roll seem to go side to side like a boat, it ok to start with, but sone wanted better setup.

I believe a good chassis setup it very important.

jsdvtr · 10th November 2010, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

Hmm would say a well setup suspension it one off the most important thing

I used apex suspension and I disnt like it too much body roll seem to go side to side like a boat, it ok to start with, but sone wanted better setup.

I believe a good chassis setup it very important.

I found the apex kit fairly good, especially for the price and still fairly comfy. Only ever used on road and at time in long sweeping bends down B roads i felt it needed something stiffer.
Atleast when i use the car when its sorted i can compare them to something and give better feedback about them for others.

I totally agree with the chassis setup, i was looking at getting cams, etc but with wanting to do track days asap i felt it would be alot better spent on the suspension and brakes.

AndySAXO^p · 10th November 2010, 15:34

Yer I am for high spec cars, but they need to be used for what they where built for!!!

Yer didn't really like apex for the money yesterday they ok for cheap fun, but I enjoy track days more with the Ast, get better fell and cornering speeds.

gavin_t · 10th November 2010, 17:54

Bilstien b8's with faulkner springs (150lb 35mm)

Came on the car so I cant comment on standard but I find my car handles really well. Has a bit of body roll to it but its nice and predictable and feels responsive. Would like it to be a bit stiffer but its my daily and I enjoy the more or less OEM ride quality

Harv · 10th November 2010, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

Hmm would say a well setup suspension it one off the most important thing

I used apex suspension and I disnt like it too much body roll seem to go side to side like a boat, it ok to start with, but sone wanted better setup.

I believe a good chassis setup it very important.

Yeah I agree about a good chassis setup. I think that is more important than any power figures!

All I was trying to get across to people was that you don't need to spend a £1000 on a suspension setup to go on track. A decent budget kit will easily do you for a year of track days imo. After 5 or 6+ days, you start to get a proper feel of the car and decide what way you want to go, you will have a much more focussed idea than just plucking out the top of your head 'I want this damper, this spring rate, this torsion bar size, this much camber etc). Suspension setups are all about what the driver wants, and tweaking the setup can take ages until you feel it is spot on.

I know people who tweak their camber by 1/2 a degree and can feel a massive difference. Although that's where a VBox can come in handy as you can measure virtually anything you want (cornering speeds - entry and exit), straight line speeds, lap times, g force around corners etc. Then compare them with your old setup and play 'spot the difference'. Although that is a bit too much for the regular track day go'er and more for the hardcore people out there, problem is you can start getting really anal about it and think your driving/testing an F1 car LOL!

raunchz · 10th November 2010, 19:35

My ideal road kit would be:
- Bilstein Group N shocks
- 160-170lb faulkners/GMC '40mm' springs
- 21mm Torsion Bars
- 24mm Rear Arb
- Quaife ATB
- Powerflex bushes all-round
- 'Group N' engine mounts (All)
- Some good road tyres

If it was purely a track car:
- Pugsport front shocks (tarmac)
- Maybe some coilover around the 250lb mark
- Bilstein Group N Rears
- 24mm Rear ARB
- 23mm Torsion Bars
- Stiff bushes (polyrace?/solid)
- Group N upper engine mounts with solid lower gearbox mount
- Some nice tyres for on track
- ATB/Well setup plate diff

With regards to the height to 'lower' the car, I'd agree with Andy about not going much below 30mm'ish.

AndySAXO^p · 10th November 2010, 20:14

Yer everyone like different set up cars, also I like the Ast adjusable top mounts at it not a set camber, so will be better to get to how I want the car to fell and handle.

adamskiTNR · 10th November 2010, 21:33

And everybody's obsession with camber. Thinking more camber is better. Well, the stiffer the car is, and the less it rolls the less camber you will need to give optimum results. Having too much camber is the same as having too little camber.

raunchz · 10th November 2010, 21:45

I'd personally stick with oem top mounts unless really looking for playing about with the fine tuning of the suspension setup chasing lap times etc.

BUT I can see why people do go for adjustable top mounts. It is worth noting, I'd weld strut top strengthening plates on if running stiff springs/solid top mounts

PLUS it'd be worth getting the front tracking laser setup when the complete 'uprated' front suspension setup is fitted

Harv · 10th November 2010, 22:29

Going with Raunchz post, what would be your ideal setup.

I read somewhere that some people are using over 600lb springs with 26 or 27mm torsion bars. Might have been the stock hatch boys. That must be super stiff!

Mochachino · 10th November 2010, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harv

Going with Raunchz post, what would be your ideal setup.

I read somewhere that some people are using over 600lb springs with 26 or 27mm torsion bars. Might have been the stock hatch boys. That must be super stiff!

May aswell weld the car into one solid chassi with that sort of setup on a saxo