Help! 106 MK2 Be4 gearbox conversion

[donshegy]

Hi, I'm new in Peugeot / Citroen world also on forum. Guys please help me. I found tons of infos about BE conversion on internet but nowhere which year of car with BE gearbox fit's in 106 MK2/Saxo. I have in my 106 TU2J2 engine with 160+hp and 9500rpm so i need stronger gearbox for racing

So this is my questions:
1. Which year and model Picasso BE gearbox (is that xsara picasso)?
2. What with driveshafts and hubs?
3. Can I use MA shifter on BE gearbox
4. What parts I need to do conversion?

[axsaxoman]

Hi if all you have is 160-180bhp --then you do not NEED a be conversion for race use
circciut is easy on g/box compared to rallying
what you will need which ever box you chosse is a c/r gear kit+ lsd
no production pug/cit gearbox has correct ratios for circuit racing and using 9000rpm

so first job is go work out speeds on tracks you going to use
many cars run MA g/boxs with boost with well over 250 bhp and don,t, break them that often --so 160-170bhp -- not a must to have
don,t take this wrong way ,but a 1294cc 8v engine making 160bhp --very few of them about ,and at 9k not alot of torque ,
top speed you are looking for flat out in5th will be around 120 mph,you,ll never see more with that bhp +revs on all but 1 race track in uk
we raced that engine in an ax years ago and no one got more bhp than we did --and used ma box and won everything with it .
time to do osme more thinking before spending money

[noirsette]

Interesting to hear this alternate side to the argument. Admittedly my application is rally, but from all the reading I'd done, I'd arrived at the conclusion that it would be far cheaper in the long run for me to do a BE4R conversion than mess around with MA boxes with £1500 of quaife internals that are no stronger than OEM. Is this not the case? Are there alternative places to acquire useful gearkits to make the MA box more tolerable?

[axsaxoman]

Originally Posted by noirsette

Interesting to hear this alternate side to the argument. Admittedly my application is rally, but from all the reading I'd done, I'd arrived at the conclusion that it would be far cheaper in the long run for me to do a BE4R conversion than mess around with MA boxes with £1500 of quaife internals that are no stronger than OEM. Is this not the case? Are there alternative places to acquire useful gearkits to make the MA box more tolerable?

yes
you just said it---- rallying and rally drivers are very hard on transmissions,
as for quaife kit not being any better than std --that i would disagree with
I ran 1 gear kit for 7 seasons of racing and sprints +hillclimbs ,our1294 8v made 127bhp @wheels (157@fly)at 8k-we had it more ,but extra 10bhp@fly and higher revs was not quicker on a lap due to less torque in mid range
over 300 events and only changed bearings in box-in all that time ,twice + 2nd gear after doing a silly local club autotest on a concrete runaway in the wet with grass+mud , ap racing clutch --in or out --spun all the wheels --then griped +broke 2nd gear-- my stupidity and using too grippy tyres for such a mickey mouse event
dumped plate dif for a gear type due amount of servicing it needed,thats what killed bearings --bits of lsd plate ,as only half the friction plates in an ma zf plate dif , and it backed off to needed servicing twice a season --gear type while not as good never needed touching
it is the nature of rallying and the animal drivers that have no mechanical sympathy that kill transmissions
be boxs are not that much stronger ,but the larger lsd and bigger shafts do help alot--when 106 were current the dif still needed replating at least once a season to keep it at its best
I have no great dislike for BE conversion =--just for the man with the 1294cc 8v it seems very much over kill and expense- for the torque he will have -its a heavier box as well,
my guess he is trying to find a cheap solution and has not even considered he will still need new ratios etc

the other thing is when people say i,ve fitted 4 new ma boxs --you can bet they were all half worn from a scrap yard and nothing like a new one--and we all know how saxo.s were driven by the "baseball cap plonkers"

[donshegy]

I know that MA gearbox is not to weak for 1.3L 8v but I was thinking that because of half shafts and diff. By the way engine will have pretty big toque because of 1.6 XSi block. The car would be in rally racing and that's why i was thinking for BE gearbox

[donshegy]

And I don't need over 120mph

[welshpug]

so if you have a TU5 block its not a 1293cc any more!!

you need a BE box from any psa vehicle that used a TU engine, used from about 98/99 on afaik.

gear ratios from gti type vehicles and a 4.93 final drive or a 4.74 if you are on small tyres.


Rally is much harder, the car I service for's predecessor went through half a dozen properly built MA boxes, not a single BE failure.

for circuit use I've seen a few TU5's running more than 200 bhp, and a good 150 lbft without major issues, though there was rarely much WOT in 1st.

[noirsette]

Are OEM gears be good enough, or do they need to be special sauce diamond encrusted ones?

[donshegy]

I sold 1.3 8v engine and now I bought 1.6 16v turbo engine with around 280hp. The guy who sold it to me says that he was destroy 4 GTI gearboxes! And his advice is to go on BE gearbox. Can anyone tell me this then:

1. Which year and model Picasso BE gearbox (is that xsara picasso)?
2. What with driveshafts and hubs?
3. Can I use MA shifter on BE gearbox
4. What parts I need to do conversion?

[donshegy]

The car is intended for rally, hill climb and drag racing

[Chipwizards]

Originally Posted by donshegy

The car is intended for rally, hill climb and drag racing

That's a very strange mixture of uses.

Rally cars are heavy by virtue of all the extra stuff required to meet regulations.

Hillclimb and drag require absolutely the lightest weight you can manage within the regulations.

An engine revving to a GENUINE 9k will need very close ratios and the closest BE (stock) ones are found in the 306 GTi-6, but the first four ratios at least can be used in other BEs.
Beyond that, the 206 GTi-180 and the 207 GTI share the same gear ratios and but they won't be close enough for your needs, and probably neither would a GTI-6 to be honest.
You can mix and match some ratios from different gearboxes but you will probably need 3rd and 4th ratios to be closer together than any stock ratio set is, and those two gears are actually joined together in one piece. It is possible to cut two gear pairs in half and grind the joining faces to make a closer pair out of the higher option 3rd and the lower option 4th gears available, because they are both internally splined, but it's a very big undertaking and probably beyond your engineering abilities if you're on here looking for advice- no offense intended of course.
Sadev gearbox is probably going to be more suited to your expected spread of power delivery anyway.

[axsaxoman]

Originally Posted by Chipwizards

That's a very strange mixture of uses.

Rally cars are heavy by virtue of all the extra stuff required to meet regulations.

Hillclimb and drag require absolutely the lightest weight you can manage within the regulations.

An engine revving to a GENUINE 9k will need very close ratios and the closest BE (stock) ones are found in the 306 GTi-6, but the first four ratios at least can be used in other BEs.
Beyond that, the 206 GTi-180 and the 207 GTI share the same gear ratios and but they won't be close enough for your needs, and probably neither would a GTI-6 to be honest.
You can mix and match some ratios from different gearboxes but you will probably need 3rd and 4th ratios to be closer together than any stock ratio set is, and those two gears are actually joined together in one piece. It is possible to cut two gear pairs in half and grind the joining faces to make a closer pair out of the higher option 3rd and the lower option 4th gears available, because they are both internally splined, but it's a very big undertaking and probably beyond your engineering abilities if you're on here looking for advice- no offense intended of course.
Sadev gearbox is probably going to be more suited to your expected spread of power delivery anyway.

if it really 280 bhp with turbo it is unlikely to make it at 9k --but all that accepted the only sadev that is rated for turbo power is the sadev st82 --not the st75 as fitted to saxo/1o6/clio

sounds to me like you are trying to spec for too many types of usage

[Chipwizards]

I don't think it's turbo, OP said 160+ at 9500.