Mobile Devices: Lite Theme CitroŽn: CitroŽn Trader | Saxo Trader | C2 Trader Peugeot: Peugeot Trader | 106 Trader Enthusiast: Saxperience


Go Back   Saxperience - Citroen Saxo Forum > Citroen Saxo Related Forums > Your Saxo Photos / Videos / Progress Reports

Your Saxo Photos / Videos / Progress Reports Please share photos/videos of your saxo in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16th January 2012, 22:03   #881
Jay_
Saxperience Post Whore
Track / Motorsport Prep
 
Jay_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 9,844
Car(s): 92 Eunos
iTrader Score: 4 (100%)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo View Post
Good stuff!

Find anything Jay?! lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
shall i give jay a hint josh

*cough*sandy*cough*
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo View Post
No, staying with a low mileage jp4 engine lads... It will be a screamer
I don't know

I feel slightly retarded for not finding anything. But if sandy is getting it then it's gunna be freaking amazing!
__________________
Posi R
Instagram: @Manx_Jay

Jay_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 22:03   #882
garner90
Frequent Poster
 
garner90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Scunthorpe
Posts: 694
Car(s): Vauxhall Corsa SRi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo View Post
No, staying with a low mileage jp4 engine lads... It will be a screamer
Shame, a b16 on bodies would be epic. Similar engine spec to why the s1600s had? ( I don't actually know what that was, just having a wild guess)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyd View Post
basically you got a sti and if you dont get it seen too then you dick turns out to be a pickle then falls into a jar of vinegar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rushy_23 View Post
As long as it doesnt end up the colour of your car I know I will be cool
garner90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 22:09   #883
jpsaxo
Saxperience Post Whore
Track / Motorsport PrepWest Midlands Region MemberEast Midlands Region Member
 
jpsaxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,523
Car(s): Mango Westcoast
iTrader Score: 11 (100%)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy View Post
Lambo V12? I just refuse to go over threads this long as i don't have time but doesn't this have the best part of 170bhp or something under its bonnet?

What was wrong with that? You haven't even had it that spec for long had you?
5 years isnt long? After having that engine for 5 years I didnt feel i could go much quicker tbh, and kept destroying the gearbox trying to go faster last year, so time for a power upgrade!

Why settle for 200bhp per ton when you can have 280bhp per ton or there abouts
__________________
PFC Featured Mango 16v 220+bhp Sandy Brown engine'd Westcoast

My 2015 Project thread ---> http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...202333&page=45
jpsaxo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 22:19   #884
hard_corejoeboy
Saxperience Forum Bum
Track / Motorsport PrepSouth East Region Member
 
hard_corejoeboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
iTrader Score: 1 (100%)
Default

Oh..i see.

Like i said these progress blogs are way too long 280/tonne sounds
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp View Post
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
hard_corejoeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 22:31   #885
jpsaxo
Saxperience Post Whore
Track / Motorsport PrepWest Midlands Region MemberEast Midlands Region Member
 
jpsaxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,523
Car(s): Mango Westcoast
iTrader Score: 11 (100%)
Default

Thats why I created this thread (plug plug plug)

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=189514

Which re-caps everything from the cars first few miles with me up until its current state on the first 2 pages!
__________________
PFC Featured Mango 16v 220+bhp Sandy Brown engine'd Westcoast

My 2015 Project thread ---> http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...202333&page=45
jpsaxo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 08:24   #886
Sandy309
Regular Poster
Track / Motorsport Prep
 
Sandy309's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 349
Car(s): 106 XSi
Default

The engine spec is pretty much finalised in my mind, but if I learn anything from my other engines along the way, that can be applied, then I will. The main thing for me is, whatever I decide to do with it, it needs to be reliable and low risk. Josh lives along way from me, so popping over to take a look if he has any problems/concerns, won't be possible. On that basis, I won't be doing it as a "Stroker". I have another customer locally that has asked me to do one and accepts the risks, so I'm evaluating it for his engine currently. The thing is, "Stroker" engines do not give you free power. The old saying "No substitute for cubic inches" is largely true, but when you're pushing the constraints of an engine that's already pretty much maximised, you can lose alot of what you gain, let alone the cost of parts.
I have alot of data already to draw on, from my other work on other engines, but to give you a broad idea of the numbers involved, here goes:

Standard engine: 78.5mm bore x 82mm stroke, 1587cc
Typical oversize: 80mm bore x 82mm stroke, 1649cc
Stroker engine: 80mm bore x 89mm stroke, 1789cc

If you're planning a fast road kind of engine, with hydraulic followers, the restrictions of rev limit and valve sizes are unlikely to be a problem, but for a race spec engine; it is a problem. The valve sizes I use in my race engines fit on the standard JP4 valve seat inserts, if you want to oversize the inserts (properly!), you'll be adding around £500 and the exhaust port will limit you anyway, there isn't enough material in the head to port to suit sufficiently big exhaust valves, for a free spec 1800, you'd have to make a compromise.
Regarding rev limits, we come up against the issue of piston speed and thrust angle. Peak piston speed and rod thrust angle will provide a glass ceiling for performance; beyond a point, frictional losses and wear become excessive; curbing performance and reducing engine life.

Probably not the best example, but perhaps the most extreme, is the Honda B18C. It's a more sophisticated engine in many ways that the TU and Honda went to a great deal of trouble to make the 8600rpm rev limit possible, including a very high spec big end bearing material. It has 87.2mm stroke and 138mm long con rods. That means, that at the rev limit, peak piston speed is 41.2m/s (24.7m/s mean) and rod thrust angle 18.4 degrees. That is very much on the limit of what you can practically do with regular high quality parts. That's about the same rev limit as i've settled on for my race TUs, as being durable and reliable, 8600rpm. A standard stroke TU5 with cup car spec rods (as most 1600s use), will give peak piston speed of 38.5m/s (23.2m/s mean) and rod thrust angle of a nice and steady 17.3 degrees. If we apply the same thinking backwards to an 89mm "Stroker" TU with 133.5mm rods (to make room for the stroke), we get a rev limit of 7840rpm and a rather worrying rod thrust angle of 19.5 degrees.
So if we assumed both the standard stroke (80mm bore) engine and stroker (80mm bore) engines operated to the same maximum piston speed and could both make 87lbft/litre at that peak speed, they would in fact; make the same power, 230bhp. Reality is, that the TU 16v head is very tricky to optimise for that level of performance and there aren't many engines genuinely in excess of 210bhp out there, with a decent torque curve anyway. Considering the very risky rod angle too, I'm not convinced a stroker kit offers good value. The other interesting aspect, is that there is a long stroke crank in the Peugeot range, that can be used, with modification and that's the route I may be testing elsewhere.

Getting back to the spec of Josh's engine, outline shopping list is as follows (SB=Sandy Brown, CS=Colin Satchell):

TU5JP4 block and crank
SB+CS steel flywheel, 7.25" race clutch
SB custom steel h-section rods
SB custom design pistons
Peugeot Sport sump baffles
SB ported and prepared head
SB custom single piece stainless valves
Piper double springs and retainers
SB custom solid followers
SB custom cam profiles
Alloy vernier pulleys
Steel belt rollers
SB+CS race spec GSXR TBs inlet design
Twin injectors
SB custom exhaust manifold (Stainless) and system
DTA S40 ECU and SB loom
Built, dyno run in and mapped by SB.

Every journey starts with a single step and here are some before pics, of the donor engine:








Block my need a little paint! There are many aspects of the engine I won't be showing in detail I'm afraid, but here's a sneak of my pistons:

Sandy309 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Sandy309 For This Useful Post:
Old 23rd January 2012, 11:39   #887
wrighty89
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,232
Car(s): MK5 Ibiza Cupra
iTrader Score: 11 (100%)
Default

Can't wait to see more of this engine build
I do want another Saxo as a play car and want to go big turbo/300bhp +.
Something about Sandy's engine builds that would make me want to stay N/A though. Basically I want big power to drive like a N/A engine haha.

Looking good Josh/Sandy, keep up the progress.
wrighty89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 12:55   #888
AlexBp
West Midlands
Track / Motorsport Prep

West Midlands Region Member
 
AlexB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: West mids
Posts: 23,157
Blog Entries: 1
Car(s): Supra,civic GL
iTrader Score: 9 (100%)
Default

Pistons = porn
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper View Post
i passed over 5 years ago now. 3 points no crashes. I'm too good to crash...
oh really.....
AlexB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AlexB For This Useful Post:
Old 23rd January 2012, 13:32   #889
PJN
Established Member
North East Region Member
 
PJN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 1,025
Car(s): Mk7 Zetec S
Default

What a spec! Can't wait to see this when it's finished, certainly still will be one of my favourite cars on the site!
PJN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 18:25   #890
mark1311
Established Member
Track / Motorsport Prep
 
mark1311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: rotherham
Posts: 1,832
Car(s): Be scirocco, full on 03plate track spec Saxo
iTrader Score: 4 (100%)
Default

looking very good there josh, best you cant wait to get it all done now.

regards you car coming up this way...

i plan to get the ax sprayed outside on the 3rd and inside on the 4th ready to come back on the sunday or monday, or tht week when ever is best for you guys.

yours wont take very long at all though, i plan to keep work free for you for the week so onli yours been worked on, matts has been more a back burning job! really cant wait to see it all done mate!!
mark1311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 18:30   #891
Wayne
Saxperience Hardcore!
Track / Motorsport PrepSouth Wales Region MemberWest Midlands Region Member
 
Wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Powys
Posts: 15,350
Car(s): Icelandtic Grey Citroen Saxo VTS 53 Turbo
iTrader Score: 19 (100%)
Default

Thank you for the info Sandy Engine plans sound good Josh will be immense once complete with mark doing bay etc and sandy doing the engine, those pistons are a work of art
__________________


Wayne's Turbo S: In Progress. Powered By AS Developments.Signature edited to comply with forum rules: http://www.saxperience.com/forum/misc.php?do=showrules
Wayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 18:58   #892
hard_corejoeboy
Saxperience Forum Bum
Track / Motorsport PrepSouth East Region Member
 
hard_corejoeboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
iTrader Score: 1 (100%)
Default

Christ wouldnt it be cheaper to whack in a v6 lol
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp View Post
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
hard_corejoeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 19:23   #893
RyanSaxo
Established Member
Track / Motorsport PrepWest Midlands Region MemberEast Midlands Region Member
 
RyanSaxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Midlandzzz
Posts: 1,613
Car(s): The 'S
iTrader Score: 9 (100%)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy View Post
Christ wouldnt it be cheaper to whack in a v6 lol
I swear your comments become more pointless...




Looks really good! Can't wait to see this come together!
__________________
.
B8's / Faulkner Springs / Piper / Supersprint / OMP Buckets / K&N Gen II / Brembo's
RyanSaxo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to RyanSaxo For This Useful Post:
Old 23rd January 2012, 19:28   #894
jpsaxo
Saxperience Post Whore
Track / Motorsport PrepWest Midlands Region MemberEast Midlands Region Member
 
jpsaxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,523
Car(s): Mango Westcoast
iTrader Score: 11 (100%)
Default

What a post Sandy, awesome stuff!

It's been a long time saving up over the last 6months but my god it's going to be worth it, bring it on!
__________________
PFC Featured Mango 16v 220+bhp Sandy Brown engine'd Westcoast

My 2015 Project thread ---> http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...202333&page=45
jpsaxo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 21:06   #895
hard_corejoeboy
Saxperience Forum Bum
Track / Motorsport PrepSouth East Region Member
 
hard_corejoeboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
iTrader Score: 1 (100%)
Default

V6 engine no more than a couple of hundred plus a good mechanic and mates rates = win!

Or maybe saxo owners are getting richer these days :s

seems like a lot of money into this when a second hand evo would have been cheaper. thats just my view if the guy wabts to do this theb fair play but saving for 6 months to do this to a saxo seems odd

and saxp politics with 'thanks' is so playschool
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp View Post
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
hard_corejoeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 21:10   #896
Liam_
Saxperience Post Whore
Track / Motorsport PrepNorth East Region Member
 
Liam_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,640
Car(s): Integra DC5R & VTS
iTrader Score: 18 (100%)
Default

A big heavy V6 in the front of a Saxo? That's going to do wonders for the handling.

Look forward to seeing more jp/ sandy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxo_ron View Post
Anyhow I only live my life a cup of tea at a time and im all out so im off to boil the kettle
Liam_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 21:11   #897
m11ler
Saxperience Forum Bum
Track / Motorsport PrepSouth East Region Member
 
m11ler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 4,908
Car(s): Posi VTR, Eunos Roadster
iTrader Score: 6 (88%)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy View Post
V6 engine no more than a couple of hundred plus a good mechanic and mates rates = win!

Or maybe saxo owners are getting richer these days :s

seems like a lot of money into this when a second hand evo would have been cheaper. thats just my view if the guy wabts to do this theb fair play but saving for 6 months to do this to a saxo seems odd

and saxp politics with 'thanks' is so playschool
He's doing it because he wants to, and it'll make him happy.
If everyone did the logical or cheaper thing and never strived to be different or go further, then the cars, and the car scene itself would be pretty boring wouldn't it.
m11ler is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to m11ler For This Useful Post:
Old 23rd January 2012, 21:44   #898
hard_corejoeboy
Saxperience Forum Bum
Track / Motorsport PrepSouth East Region Member
 
hard_corejoeboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southend, Essex/Thetford, Norfolk
Posts: 4,203
Car(s): Seat Mii Toca/VW Polo Gti 6c 1.8 turbo
iTrader Score: 1 (100%)
Default

Yeah i know just i spent a lot of money once upon a time and it didn't work out and thats when i had the money. Just a lot of people on here just spend more and more constantly wanting power power power and then more power and you gotta think when is it going to end?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyp View Post
You are an absolute joke of a human being.
hard_corejoeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2012, 21:51   #899
LEE_VTR1
Saxperience Post Whore
West Midlands Region Member
 
LEE_VTR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nuneaton
Posts: 6,476
Car(s): RB RS 200
iTrader Score: 15 (100%)
Default

sandy brown you absolute legend!! what a post possibly the most technical well thought of post iv ever seen on this forum. clearly sandy your only breaking the ice of your knowledge with that post but wow!!

josh this engine is going to be seriously special
__________________
Racing Blue RS Clio 200 Bitches
LEE_VTR1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LEE_VTR1 For This Useful Post:
Old 23rd January 2012, 21:53   #900
crisppug
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: walsall
Posts: 26
Car(s): 106 gti s2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy View Post
Yeah i know just i spent a lot of money once upon a time and it didn't work out and thats when i had the money. Just a lot of people on here just spend more and more constantly wanting power power power and then more power and you gotta think when is it going to end?
joshs car has done a fair few track days not to mentinon nurburgring x amount of times.

as he said before he has got used to the power and can drive it to its full potential - hes making it "faster" as he has reached the limit on his old engine.

awsom bit of info sandy,realy good progress Josh,will be amazing/interesting to see what its like once its done-ganna take some getting used to again=fun
crisppug is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 21:36.