How much bhp u think?

[DomVTR]

Mk2 VTR with 4-2-1 manifold, supersprint stright though, Scorpion backbox, bmc cda, kent roller cams n a remap!

How much u think that would be running???

[bullit]

125 maybe a bit more

"awaits string comment"

[MaRiO89]

How long is a piece of string?

*beats ryan to it..*

:P


*deletes comment*

only kidding.

[DomVTR]

lol
well im very close to keeping up with vts atm n i aint got cams or the remap

[Ryan]

sorry lads i was having a wank. you beat me to it.

What cams? as theres a few different spec from the manufacturer. im guessing youve got a 270?

[bullit]

kent ryan. will be a kent 40 something.
will all of the above you should be beating a vts

*balls hit edit not quote*

[Ryan]

kent ryan. will be a kent 40 something.
will all of the above you should be beating a vts

*balls hit edit not quote*

pt 40/50 then irc.

most seem to be 120-130 with an upraded cam shaft.

[R66CE_O_vtr]

ul make 125bhp easily maybe more like 135 i reckon

wise choice in doin a vtr

[DomVTR]

i ain't got the cams yet am looking into them what the best ones possible really any ideas? n wanna get the rev limiter raised to the same as a vts. my mate got a vts n he only starts pulling from me in 3rd n he got a stright through n a viper n all i got at the mo is a manifold, stright through n a bmc!

[DomVTR]

ul make 125bhp easily maybe more like 135 i reckon

wise choice in doin a vtr

y a wise choice there onli half a engine with there 8v lol :p

[bullit]

i ain't got the cams yet am looking into them what the best ones possible really any ideas? n wanna get the rev limiter raised to the same as a vts. my mate got a vts n he only starts pulling from me in 3rd n he got a stright through n a viper n all i got at the mo is a manifold, stright through n a bmc!

model depends on what roller rocker you have. you also want a vernier pulley

[DomVTR]

are they wat come standard on the VTS??

[Ryan]

verniers are std on vts yes.

vtr you will raise your rev limit depending on cam choice, no point in a 7500rev limit if your running out of powaaa at 6k :P

[Ryan]

and tell your mate vipers are not very good.

[KamRacing]

How long is a piece of string?


twice as long as from one end to the middle...

as for the topic in hand.. tuning the engine should be more than finding a peak power output. You need to work out how you want the engine to perform and build the spec around that.

For example pick say a '285' cam and you may find the standard inlet + BMC not up to the job

[Wayne]

you should make about 125bhp to 130bhp with those mods mate:y:

[R66CE_O_vtr]

it may only be half an engine but i no how well they can go because i had 1. it used 2 do vts's

[Ryan]

it may only be half an engine but i no how well they can go because i had 1. it used 2 do vts's

but then a modified vts will do a modified vtr.

modify any engine it will punch above its standard weight.

[R66CE_O_vtr]

you have to do alot to a vts to make it faster as ive had this convo with u before ryan

[Ryan]

you have to do alot to a vts to make it faster as ive had this convo with u before ryan

same with a vtr.

you change any cam set up from a standard one to an uprated one and remap the ecu accordingly you will make either car drive differently.

a cammed vts will hammer a cammed vtr. But a cammed Vtr will be on a par or above a std vts.

[Karl]

touche'

standard with verniers pulleys Dom (saxo-vtr)

...just do a conversion and cam the new VTS engine ;)

gogo.

[Ryan]

vtr doesnt come with a vernier if thats what your saying dude.

[Karl]

Nah i meant, VTS come standard with verniers,
so just put a VTS engine in your VTR...
more power from the start to play with

[Ryan]

k dude, was just the (saxo-vtr) that I wanted to check over, incase it wasnt just a username.

[Karl]

k dude, was just the (saxo-vtr) that I wanted to check over, incase it wasnt just a username.

Nah was just the username as I know him irl as Dom so...:)

Knew that only the S comes with verniers as standard :D
*is proud he actually knows a little.*

[Ryan]

Nah was just the username as I know him irl as Dom so...:)

Knew that only the S comes with verniers as standard :D
*is proud he actually knows a little.*

lol... just keep doing research and ull learn, theres an engine book ive been meaning to buy but keep forgetting, I need to expand my knowlege alot tbh.

[Karl]

yeah its pretty nuts,
im the most impractical, unknowledgable person ever to do with cars.
Learn loads off this site,
cheers Ryan mate.
keep up the good work, lol.

[Ryan]

yeah its pretty nuts,
im the most impractical, unknowledgable person ever to do with cars.
Learn loads off this site,
cheers Ryan mate.
keep up the good work, lol.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/mystic_moments/IndianenpicHUGS.gif

[JTC_VTR]

i'm doing the same to my vtr

[DomVTR]

i reali duno wat to do now lol am kinda stomped lol got so many choices on wat to do!

I have spent quite abit on my vtr engine so far as Soulless knows lol!!!

What should i do?????

Here are my choices!


VTS conversion the do mods to that!
Keep all the modds on my car and cam it and get it re-mapped
Leave it like it is just do up the looks
Or VTR Turbo lol


Would concider buying a new car but i like my saxo way way way 2much lol

What would u lot do ur opions are more than welcome!!! :y:

[Ryan]

spent money on the vtr engine in what way??

if its things like exhausts and induction kits just use em on the 16v.

[2000vtr]

why do people insist on thinking a vtr will make 125bhp+ from a cam and remap? even manufacturers like piper dont give figures that are just not true and there selling the product.

apparently most vtrs are actualy only 80bhp at the wheels or there abouts..

if you want a quick solution to a quick blast try nitrous... unless you want to race around all the time then re fills get expensive lol

[SNewham]

apparently most vtrs are actualy only 80bhp at the wheels or there abouts..

They're 90BHP and 98BHP IIRC. I think 125BHP would be pushing it as well to be honest but I can't really judge as I haven't done it myself..


*EDIT* I have no brain tbh...

[Ryan]

why do people insist on thinking a vtr will make 125bhp+ from a cam and remap? even manufacturers like piper dont give figures that are just not true and there selling the product.

apparently most vtrs are actualy only 80bhp at the wheels or there abouts..

if you want a quick solution to a quick blast try nitrous... unless you want to race around all the time then re fills get expensive lol

because depending on cam spec, quite a few do manage between 120-130 bhp.

seen quite a few s2 rallye engines, and different vtr engines hitting this power.

others ive seen hitting 110-120. depends alot on the cam, and IF and the quality of the headwork done.

[Ryan]

They're 90BHP and 98BHP IIRC. I think 125BHP would be pushing it as well to be honest but I can't really judge as I haven't done it myself..

he quoted at the wheels figures, book figures you quoted are at the fly.

[DomVTR]

spent money on the vtr engine in what way??

if its things like exhausts and induction kits just use em on the 16v.

i have done bmc cda, raceland 4-2-1 manifold, supersprint *race* centre section, n scorpion back box

[SNewham]

he quoted at the wheels figures, book figures you quoted are at the fly.

balls, I thought they were atw :(


Ryan - just skip over my posts if you see them in the future lol. :P

[Ryan]

balls, I thought they were atw :(


Ryan - just skip over my posts if you see them in the future lol. :P

or shall i edit them for you?? :P

i just thought id explain before someone started another argument..

[Ryan]

i have done bmc cda, raceland 4-2-1 manifold, supersprint *race* centre section, n scorpion back box

so everything but the manifold you can use on a different engine anyway

[SNewham]

so everything but the manifold you can use on a different engine anyway

and the manifold you can sell for £100 or so in good condition anyway to go towards a vts version..

[2000vtr]

rallyes are faster than vtrs , better head? better gearbox untill top end speed!

to get 125bhp N/A from a vtr at the wheels woud cost loads and could be T/C for a coupe of grand or less if you have the time to pick up bargins

my vtr will be running 150 - 160 bhp at the wheels but it costs

[DomVTR]

so u all think a vts conversion would b gd idea then????

cost alot?? or cheaper than me camming n remap???

[DomVTR]

onli prob is aint i got to find a vts engine n shit from the same year as mine etc??

[Ryan]

rallyes are faster than vtrs , better head? better gearbox untill top end speed!

to get 125bhp N/A from a vtr at the wheels woud cost loads and could be T/C for a coupe of grand or less if you have the time to pick up bargins

my vtr will be running 150 - 160 bhp at the wheels but it costs

no1 has been quoting at the wheels figures. all at the fly.

its rare anyone will quote an at the wheels figure on an internet forum.

rallye have better head - if youve had headwork that means fuck all.

[Ryan]

so u all think a vts conversion would b gd idea then????

cost alot?? or cheaper than me camming n remap???

how much firther do you intend on going.

if not much just cam and remap the 8v.

if you intend on further down the line going for more power go 16v.

[2000vtr]

manifod
exhaust
cam
remap / standalone / piggybacke
best possable COLD air feed

done at one would seem brilliant, but people cant do it at once ( cost wise) and do it in stages so time they've added another mod there use to the first mod and so on....

[2000vtr]

Ryan , its with the help of a standard head . but a little frind called rotrex :)

[DomVTR]

i really dunno how much further i wanna go reali i dont reali know how far i can go i suspose the sky is the limit i guess i mean my mate got a 300bhp saxo vts so anything is possible i just want a quick nice car reali but i dont wanna stop modding if ya know wat i mean like i dont wanna do it all then stop i always want somethin to do i love my projects i just wana know wat the best reali lol!

[Ryan]

Ryan , its with the help of a standard head . but a little frind called rotrex :)

i wasnt talking about your engine though, i was commenting that the rallye head was better standard. I was commenting that if headwork is being done this makes no difference. So it is possible to have between 120-130 at the fly on an 8v engine as many have done so

Somers gave up on his supercharged 8v after a few years. Mike off ssc had a nice supercharged vtr to.

[SNewham]

manifod
exhaust
cam
remap / standalone / piggybacke
best possable COLD air feed


you wont be running 150-160 bhp atw with that setup on a vtr...

[DomVTR]

you wont be running 150-160 bhp atw with that setup on a vtr...

tbh though mate dont wanna start a argument we never said we was gonna get it from that set up!!

[2000vtr]

N/A is less hassle i suppose, but i guess s/c , t/c can also be a everyday car it its done propery which only 50% of the people can afford to do , better rad , uprated internals ect.

this guy may have trouble finding a 16v as there getting hard to find? or s i heared

[Ryan]

can we keep the comments to at the fly figures atm...

as 99% of the users will use fly figures and so i cant be fucked to work out transmission losses

[DomVTR]

just wanted to know wat i could be looking at if i did run that setup!! that all

N wanted to know wat best for me in the long run!! n wat i should do coz i know there alot of ppl on this site that have prob been in the same position as me trying to decide wat the best to do for the performance of there car :y:

[2000vtr]

you wont be running 150-160 bhp atw with that setup on a vtr...
eh.....

lol i never said i was, i was just saying all them mods at once will give you a good noticeable gain

[DomVTR]

i mean i was gonna do the t/c engine to my 8v with all the internals n skimmed head forged pistons uprated con rods etc but i duno if it worth the hassle on a 8v or even on any car tbh

[SNewham]

eh.....

lol i never said i was, i was just saying all them mods at once will give you a good noticeable gain

lol I thought you were talking about your setup that was going to reach 150 bhp. Sorry man I misunderstood you. :P

[DomVTR]

bt the thing that puzzles me is all i have done is

manifold
stright through system
n bmc cda

and i am already keeping up with standard vts which means i must be pushing the 115-120bhp already no??

[Ryan]

bt the thing that puzzles me is all i have done is

manifold
stright through system
n bmc cda

and i am already keeping up with standard vts which means i must be pushing the 115-120bhp already no??

or your mate is a shit driver.

[Baz]

i over took redbullet in his VTS my Furio must be around 120 BHP from this replica magnex backbox and my green cotton, woop!

or as Ryan says....shit driver....which will be the case

[2000vtr]

you might be a good driver they might be a crap one, but at the end of the day 90 vs 120bhp and an exhaust manifold doesnt do that much on there own , they just compliment other mods.

a manifold just allows it to rev more freely... from my experience inaway,

[DomVTR]

or your mate is a shit driver.

he is a pucker driver lol i sumtimes wonder weather he is giving it the full beans bt nw he got a stright though n that n he is now pulling away from me but it is still close onli in like 3rd he reali starts pulling away!! i aint gonna lie he does beat me n that bt i aint doing as bad as most vtr on the keeping up with vts's lool :p

[DomVTR]

you might be a good driver they might be a crap one, but at the end of the day 90 vs 120bhp and an exhaust manifold doesnt do that much on there own , they just compliment other mods.

a manifold just allows it to rev more freely... from my experience inaway,

ur say 90bhp bt mine was nearer the 100bhp wen standard being the mk2 i know it aint that much difference bt every little helps lol :p

[2000vtr]

never raced a vts but i read some were a vts wil pull of better from 3rd gear onwards?

i couldnt be doing with the vts insurance group, i mean vtr group 7 is quite good.

[DomVTR]

n b4 u say i doubt my car has lost that much bhp over the years as it has had all its services n stuff wen they have been needed and it was well looked after i mean since i have had which i have had it for the last 11k miles n i have done 3 services on it so its well looked after to keep them ponys under the hood

*apart from the odd ragging i give it*

[DomVTR]

never raced a vts but i read some were a vts wil pull of better from 3rd gear onwards?

i couldnt be doing with the vts insurance group, i mean vtr group 7 is quite good.a remap and cam arnt visable either ;)

ay??? :ponder:

[2000vtr]

n b4 u say i doubt my car has lost that much bhp over the years as it has had all its services n stuff wen they have been needed and it was well looked after i mean since i have had which i have had it for the last 11k miles n i have done 3 services on it so its well looked after to keep them ponys under the hood

*apart from the odd ragging i give it*


there you go then, your mate might abuse hes car as much as mike jakson does kids and hes vts may no longer want to be 120bbhp

[DomVTR]

that could b very true i must admit n he will prob be looking at this 2moz n ave a moan lol

*hello motobruce heheh ur car is quick though mate luv ya haha :y:*

[Baz]

3 services in 11k miles? you done that in 3 years or what? no need to service it fully that often. Oil change before a track day etc then yes but general driving, no need IMO.

VTS will obviously have more pull in 3rd and in 2nd as its quicker to 60....which the S can do in 2nd gear. so there after its just leaves it

[DomVTR]

3 services in 11k miles? you done that in 3 years or what? no need to service it fully that often. Oil change before a track day etc then yes but general driving, no need IMO.

VTS will obviously have more pull in 3rd and in 2nd as its quicker to 60....which the S can do in 2nd gear. so there after its just leaves it

nah i ave had the car like 3/4 months lol i can do sum driving went though a stage of depression lol were i just wanted to drive n drive listerning to music so i done alot of millage lol

i know this is going to start a argument bt hay here it goes my speedo is 5mph out which i know is true n in 2nd on my car the speedo reads about 65mph just b4 limit which would mean my car does 60mph in second just before my limiter so...............

[2000vtr]

that could b very true i must admit n he will prob be looking at this 2moz n ave a moan lol

*******************************************:*

ill avoid the bottom part im not that way inclined my self like... lol

every body who owns a vts says a vtr isnt worth having, but going from a banger lke my self to a vtr seemed very nice, its just a vts is a better option to them... but if your happy with a vtr....you alreay have the exhaust sorted so maybe a cam , remap woudnt be such a bad move

[SNewham]

i know this is going to start a argument bt hay here it goes my speedo is 5mph out which i know is true n in 2nd on my car the speedo reads about 65mph just b4 limit which would mean my car does 60mph in second just before my limiter so...............

lol it isn't 5mph out it depends on the speed. What speed does your gps say ? :homme:

[2000vtr]

nah i ave had the car like 3/4 months lol i can do sum driving went though a stage of depression lol were i just wanted to drive n drive listerning to music so i done alot of millage lol

i know this is going to start a argument bt hay here it goes my speedo is 5mph out which i know is true n in 2nd on my car the speedo reads about 65mph just b4 limit which would mean my car does 60mph in second just before my limiter so...............

theres many peope who also say therelimiter does this, a vts will do the same, but quicker lol

if you want to loose top end speed but gain bottom end find a rally box

[Baz]

nah i ave had the car like 3/4 months lol i can do sum driving went though a stage of depression lol were i just wanted to drive n drive listerning to music so i done alot of millage lol

i know this is going to start a argument bt hay here it goes my speedo is 5mph out which i know is true n in 2nd on my car the speedo reads about 65mph just b4 limit which would mean my car does 60mph in second just before my limiter so...............

speedo is ACTUALLY 10% out, so when it says 65 your actually doing 58.5 MPH, end of discussion on that subject!

[Baz]

theres many peope who also say therelimiter does this, a vts will do the same, but quicker lol

VTS will actually do it in 2nd due to the higher rev limiter

[DomVTR]

every body who owns a vts says a vtr isnt worth having, but going from a banger lke my self to a vtr seemed very nice, its just a vts is a better option to them... but if your happy with a vtr....you alreay have the exhaust sorted so maybe a cam , remap woudnt be such a bad move

i understand wat u mean i went from a corsa b 1.2 to a 2002 pug 106 1.1 which was nice then went from the pug to my saxo vtr n that was nice to bt i get bored of the power after awhile lol :P

[SNewham]

Brapp Brapp

[DomVTR]

lol it isn't 5mph out it depends on the speed. What speed does your gps say ? :homme:

lol i was using a gps wen i found out my speedo is 5mph out lol :A:

[SNewham]

lol i was using a gps wen i found out my speedo is 5mph out lol :A:

haha well I've been there done this thread millions of times. I'm going to go to bed and dream of burning rubber :P :afro:

[Baz]

lol i was using a gps wen i found out my speedo is 5mph out lol :A:

picture of proof or i don't believe you

[DomVTR]

picture of proof or i don't believe you

kk will get ya one lol!! n if u gonna say a speedo is like 10% out or wateva every car that comes out of production the speedo is gonna b wrong anyway so say a VTS does 60 in 2nd on the clock that would mean it aint doing 60 coz the speedo is 10% out

am i wrong??

[Baz]

kk will get ya one lol!! n if u gonna say a speedo is like 10% out or wateva every car that comes out of production the speedo is gonna b wrong anyway so say a VTS does 60 in 2nd on the clock that would mean it aint doing 60 coz the speedo is 10% out

am i wrong??

yes, but a VTS will do closer to 70 in 2nd so technically will actually do 60 in 2nd

[2000vtr]

according to them road side speeding warning signs my speedo is 4 - 6mhp out depending on what road im on - which speed detector i went throw

[DomVTR]

yes, but a VTS will do closer to 70 in 2nd so technically will actually do 60 in 2nd

ok i will let u win this lol i have had a few arguements with ppl bout this so will leave it at the i am beaten

*put my hands up with a white flag*

i was wrong lol i will admit my gps does say 60 as i am changing into 3rd lol!!

[Baz]

according to them road side speeding warning signs my speedo is 4 - 6mhp out depending on what road im on - which speed detector i went throw

yep i can go through and 34/35 and it says thanks and says i was doing 30 :panic:

[2000vtr]

yep i can go through and 34/35 and it says and says i was doing 30 :panic:
lol

good if the speed cameras are the same calibration as you'd not have to worry then going throw a camera at 2mhp over the limit

[2000vtr]

dog sh1t look at the time , adios its bed time, didnt even know what time it was!!!!

[Baz]

lol

good if the speed cameras are the same calibration as you'd not have to worry then going throw a camera at 2mhp over the limit

even though i know they are wrong i still go through at 30 etc, no point in risking it is there. there is some on a 50 MPH road i know i could go through at 55 but not worth the risk

[2000vtr]

even though i know they are wrong i still go through at 30 etc, no point in risking it is there. there is some on a 50 MPH road i know i could go through at 55 but not worth the risk

bingo, i actualy always go throw at 27mhp ish whats the hassle of slowing down 3mhp ?? none and its a simple way of knowing your not going to get caught speeding what so ever

[Karl]

lol 60 in 2nd thread.
Miss these.

[jaybiss]

faster you go the further your speedo is out

a vtr doesnt do 60 in second, FACT

it does 58

[jas16v]

Does the vts do 60 in second then?

[Karl]

yes, you have one.
go try it.

[DomVTR]

bt the speedo is wrong if mine is wrong everyones is hahahahaha

onli messing with ya all i know your all right!!!

[Karl]

yes, so you know now that VTRs do not achieve 60 in 2nd gear :)

[James]

Ok I’ve skimmed this thread,

saxo-vtr - I have a very healthy vtr engine in my car, stripped to the max with a carbon bonnet. A gmc 4-1/bmc/straight through system/b&m, I struggle to touch a standard vts with a GOOD driver. There is no way in hell you will be close to staying with a vts... I hit 109 at the fly on a good RR. Rolling roads not being accurate it's probably less (something I have learnt to accept from Ryan unfortunately). Obviously the weight loss has nothing to do with a rr printout. My advice is go and try race a standard vts on the 1/4 and see how far away you are because the difference is huge..

To answer your question if I cammed mine, with a remap and port/polish I would be happy to settle for 127-130bhp. Bhp is just pub talk… it means nothing.

TBH i just wanted a moan.

[leeroybrown]

I think i have heard everything now.....

"staying close to a vts in a VTR" emmmm pub talk that is as Ryan would say

I agree with you Cloud 100%

[James]

I think i have heard everything now.....

"staying close to a vts in a VTR" emmmm pub talk that is as Ryan would say

I agree with you Cloud 100%

You have sence my brother :panic:

[leeroybrown]

Fair enough maybe in 1st and 2nd a little bit, the VTS will absolute leave after that mate.

Mind you Cloud you do very well against them on the 1/4 mile ;)

[James]

Yea leeroy I do.. but I know a good well maintained VTS with a good driver should be hitting 15.6's, I hit 15.7's. 1 tenth of a second is a long way when your driving lol

[Ryan]

I hit 109 at the fly on a good RR. Rolling roads not being accurate it's probably less (something I have learnt to accept from Ryan unfortunately). .

James it could be more though, thats my comment about rolling roads, some read above, some read below. The most accurate way of getting bhp is engine out and on a dyno,

Rolling roads will give you good information on a car, I just wouldnt use it as the B all and end all like alot of people seem to do. (ive seen 175bhp std vts's lol)

[leeroybrown]

I did a 15.3 in my old gti with 3 cows in and a mate;)

[Ryan]

I did a 15.3 in my old gti with 3 cows in and a mate;)

http://www.koransky.com/Trip/History/MidWest/Mooo.jpg

[James]

James it could be more though, thats my comment about rolling roads, some read above, some read below. The most accurate way of getting bhp is engine out and on a dyno,

Rolling roads will give you good information on a car, I just wouldnt use it as the B all and end all like alot of people seem to do. (ive seen 175bhp std vts's lol)

Indeed, dsh85 hit 133bhp with an open air filter :panic: I don't really know much about getting dyno readings. I don't even know how they are done to be honest..

I did a 15.3 in my old gti with 3 cows in and a mate;)

Was that on your g meter? :P

[leeroybrown]

Cows = Full leather to me and you Ryan

Was that on your g meter?

I rock, thats what it was reading

[Ryan]

Indeed, dsh85 hit 133bhp with an open air filter :panic: I don't really know much about getting dyno readings. I don't even know how they are done to be honest..



At least now you can see why I feel theyre not the B all and end all, and not just to try and kick people down, Engine dynos are engine out of car onto a custom bellhousing straight to the dyno, so theres no gearbox, this means transmission losses cant come into play, as usually its a rought estimate, you cant also have people doing the run in the wrong gear.

[daz_royle]

i think around 130bhp

[leeroybrown]

What gear is idle for a rolling road 4th i thought

[Karl]

i think around 130bhp

130bhp in a 98bhp VTR with a manifold and filter?
are you nuts!?!

[Ryan]

What gear is idle for a rolling road 4th i thought

IRC ja. although ive known of a few other people to come back bragging about figures, having the car run in different gears lol!

at least a dyno takes out this happening.

[James]

At least now you can see why I feel theyre not the B all and end all, and not just to try and kick people down, Engine dynos are engine out of car onto a custom bellhousing straight to the dyno, so theres no gearbox, this means transmission losses cant come into play, as usually its a rought estimate, you cant also have people doing the run in the wrong gear.

My engine won't be coming out so the chance of doing that is prettttty low.

[leeroybrown]

To me BHP on the rollers mean nowt same on a dyno all pub banter tbh

Its how it performs on the road to me

[James]

Fair comment :), it's always nice to have a rough estimate though.

[Ryan]

To me BHP on the rollers mean nowt same on a dyno all pub banter tbh

Its how it performs on the road to me

Something ive felt all along, to many people want X -bhp because they feel it makes up for lacking in the trouser department :homme:

[leeroybrown]

Something ive felt all along, to many people want X -bhp because they feel it makes up for lacking in the trouser department


Are you trying to tell us in a professional way you have a small will Ryan?

[Ryan]

Are you trying to tell us in a professional way you have a small will Ryan?

why do you think i want an 800bhp furio engine? ;) ;)

[leeroybrown]

;) Ha ha so true