HELP Saxo VTR Mk1 Turbo Conversion

[rob-c2k8]

hi people

ive had a saxo for a while now and im a little bored of the power i want something a little different but i still want it to be a saxo

so i thought about turbo conversion.... im good with mechanical things but ive never worked or really looked into a turbo car

for my conversion so far i have the following...

turbo manifold, the actual turbo, turbo downpipe and piping to the air inlet

the thing i need to know is should i change the head gasket before fitting the turbo

and i have also read about fitting another injector? where does this injector go exactly? and how do i fit it?

a little help on that would be great people =)

regards,
rob.

[makaveli144]

Look at MF2 minimum to control the fueling and the additional injector. the injector goes near the throttle body if I remember right.

You will also need a cooler and depending how much boost you intend to run forged pistons etc.

You will need to lower the compression ratio and you can do that by changing the headgasket to a thicker one.

[rob-c2k8]

i wasn't looking at adding forged pistons... i just wanted to run the vtr standard with turbo hence why i was asking about the head gasket... i would like to do it as cheap as possible without blowing it

is there anything i can do to help not blow it up instead of buying forged pistons?

[makaveli144]

Just dont run too much boost, the internals on the TU lumps are quite strong anyway. Im not sure on the exact level but try asking medz_vtrturbo he ran standard internals.

[rob-c2k8]

what else do i have to buy for the MF2 kit? and is it very hard to fit? how does the MF2 know when do add the fuel? and where does the other end of the injector go? like.. one end in the inlet and the other end where? just to the fuel line or something?

[makaveli144]

The fueling on the MF2 is set by adjusting 8 screws which control the fuel from the extra injector across the rev range. It will be best set up on a rolling road. Yes it runs into the fuel line.

[rob-c2k8]

is the mf2 and injector easy to fit? is it only the mf2 and injector + line that i need

apart from a cooler

or can you think of anything else i would need?

am i right in thinking that using the 5th injector with mf2 is the cheaper way around getting 4 bigger injectors and a remap?

[makaveli144]

Yes the MF2 is usually the cheaper way and its not too difficult to fit if you have an idea what your doing.

[rob-c2k8]

ok cool looks like il be getting that then

would you recomment running a ic?

i was jus tlooking at how they are fitted as i wasnt sure...

is it like this... one end of intercooler to the air inlet and the other to the turbo air outlet? and the fan on the back of the intercooler?

is the fan on the intercooler supposed to be run all the time or be fitted to the existing fan so they both come on together?

[rob-c2k8]

sorry if i sound like a complete novice but all the cars ive ever worked on have never been a turbo and i have never looked into doing a turbo car lol

[makaveli144]

Yes you should use an intercooler to keep inlet temps down and better for power etc. You are right as to how it is connected but i dont know about the fan.

[rob-c2k8]

ok mate great thanks for the info

will sort some bits out and hopefully get it sorted for the summer =)

[smearsvtr]

http://www.dp-engineering.nl/EN/ Check this site out they produce all the parts needed to turbo your vtr and parts are produced to highest quality

[RCD-Performance]

sorry if i sound like a complete novice but all the cars ive ever worked on have never been a turbo and i have never looked into doing a turbo car lol

I would look at getting a professional to fit and set up the management at the very least mate :)

[3cott]

Where is the best place to get a turbo kit cituning or dp?

[Mathias]

hia mate, STAY AWAY from cituning!! just bought and received a turbo kit from DP, the quality is awsome!! ive ordered pistons and rods from cituning over a month ago, was told they'd be 2 weeks and they still are not here!!
paid £900 upfront, and they never phone me back or tell me whats happening, its cheaper with DP and the kit came really quickly, they were also really helpfull!!

but if you do get it turbo'd, get someome who knows what they are doing to set it up and map it!! I'd reccomend RCD PERFORMANCE for mapping!!;);)

[3cott]

Cheers man. wats the most bhp standed rods an pistons can take

[Mathias]

not 100% sure mate to be honest, give GMC a call for a accurate figure, but think they'd be fine up to around the 170bhp mark, internals in the tu engine are quite strong, but if you wana run loads more boost reliably then low comp pistons and forged rods are a must!!

what sort of power you after, and how much you looking to spend??

[3cott]

Anything between 150 to 200. What would bee the best root to go down

[Mathias]

depends how much you wana spend mate, i'd stay away from getting a fifth injector and think about standalone mangement, for the spec of the engine, i'd go for a performance cam, get a turbo kit from DP or source bits yourself,
pistons and rods should be fine for that figure, but dont quote me on that.
you need uprated brakes, headgasket, clutch, need and an intercooler and lots more!

you looking to spend a lot?

I'd definately give RCD a pm, about prices on standalone management and mapping.:y:

[AXracing]

The MF2 + SigCom2 combo works much better than you may expect. The biggest advantage is that its a very easy system to fit and map at home. You can easily run up to 200bhp at the wheels if its set well with no problem. The old DP (UK) cars were running low 13 to high 12 sec quarter miles with this setup.

Normally boosted TU engines fail due to shortfalls in there setup. Often people have let them run lean or over heat and you end up with melted pistons or rods poking holes in the block. So its far more important to setup what you have well rather than what it is you actually have.

[Sophia_Bush]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Sadako_Yamamura/Turbo%20Bits%20and%20New%20Parts/merryboostday.jpg

[AXracing]

Nice pphoto, Looks like your welding skill have improved Gav.

[rob-c2k8]

how hard are the injectors to change? and any idea on a price of stand alone management mapping?

could i change my injectors now if i had them? and still use the car.... and then once the turbo has been fitted... then get it mapped?

[Mathias]

the injectors are pretty easy to change mate, as long as you get ones that
fit your standard fuel rail. give RCD PERFORMANCE a PM regarding pricing, they are developing custom standalone units for the vtr and vts, they will be able to give you advice and costings on ecu's and mapping:y:

[rob-c2k8]

i was thinking lastnight.... if i fit a fifth injector then yeah that will be fine if i run MF2 etc but what if i wana change it in the near future such as pistons and bigger injectors... then that means i wasted the money on the MF2 etc

[SunderZ]

If you go stand alone then regdless of set up the map can be changed to suit the new er spec.

Just do alot of calling round and asking of questions befor you splash out as you dont wanna end up flogging stuff second hand cos it aint right.

[jdl1603]

what is mf2.,,,,,,,and what sensors are in a turbo exhuast???

[AXracing]

I agree with SunderZ. Its so often I see people spening a fortune on parts for boosted Saxo, 106 and Axs that are totally unsuitable or just plain wrong. If you want to spend money spend it on cooling, gearbox and clutch before you start with the engine it self. Just to put this in perspective I say this as a stock VTR engine with a botched up standard manifold, a well used T25 off a old Nissan and a cheap as chips MF2 ecu can produce enough power to kill even a group N motorsport clutch and a MA gearbox.

jdl1603 : MF2 is just a extra ECU that controls a extra injector/injectors you fit to your engine. So basically speaking the turbo provides extra air to the engine and the MF2 and its injectors provide the extra fuel. Its really easy to setup as its there is a small set of mixtrue screws that you can adjust with a screw driver. As for sensors in the exhaust that is a oxygen sensor. The more oxygen it sees the leaner the engine is running.

[rob-c2k8]

which would be better to do a turbo conversion on? a old black top or the new silver top?

[rob-c2k8]

also,

if i stuck the turbo kit on my car without adding the 5th injector and mf2 what would happen? would it just run like a piece or shit or would it run like a standard vtr at the moment?

[rob-c2k8]

when i say would it run like a standard vtr at the moment i mean run like a standard vtr untill i sort out the extra fuel?

[AXracing]

You can run boost on both. If your getting to a point of swapping internals and management it makes even less of a difference. If you can get hold of a well looked after low mile cars with a black top in that would be best for a basic turbo setup in my opinion.

You can run very low turbo boost on a standard car especially if you use good fuel and up the fuel pressure but we are talking minimal boost. So you would see a small gain in power if you did that. Its a bit like how Cituning do there basic kit I believe.

[rob-c2k8]

i can get hold of a mk1 vtr with full service history but mileage isnt pretty... 112k =( would you say give that a miss?

also, i was thinking of just fitting the turbo manifold, turbo, downpipe and intercooler only

so not adding anything to fueling or even mf2 but only because i would like to see what difference it makes and also i would like to go all the way and do it properly with bigger injectors and a remap but i dont have the cash for that at the moment... i could go with the mf2 but i will more than likely upgrade engine internals so standalone will be better i think?

opinions guys =)

[RCD-Performance]

I would not personally run a turbo without some sort of extra fueling/ignition control.

I would certainly never run it on the standard ECU

Just my opinion

[rob-c2k8]

i will be adding fueling and things to it but just not straight away as i need to let the bank settle a little, i have everything else apart from the fueling

do you think it would cause many problems if i just bolted it all on and used it like a normaly day car for a couple of weeks or something?

[RCD-Performance]

The standard ECU just cannot handle it, the standard map sensor does not read positive pressure for a start off.

It would run yes.....but how well, and for how long i do not know, im not digging mate just advising, but i would never let a customer of mine do that if i could help it,

[rob-c2k8]

do you sell an ECU that i could use instead of the standard one?

[RCD-Performance]

We have developed standalone system yes...have a look at our section for info :)

or drop me a PM or a phone call

Ross
RCD.

[webby]

dont mean to thread jack but wat is sigcom2?

[AXracing]

They can do a bunch of useful things but primarily the SigCon2 and 3 come with a handy feature that effectively blindfolds the standard ECU to what is going on with the engine. This is handy on boosted card more so ones with running significant boost as the standard ECU will try and lean out the fuel if it sees the engine is running to much fuel. But boosted cars you tend to throw extra fuel to help cool the combustion chamber. It works a bit like when water or alcohol evaporated off your arm it makes your arm feel cool. So the SigCon2 allows your use a MF2 on even a high boost system.

[webby]

ive looked all over for some info on sigcon can someone provide a link please? if there is 1

[AXracing]

You don’t see much about them as it was developed by the Galloway Motor Company who were one of the pioneer of running significant boost with these cars. Its sold only by them as far as I am aware and none of the technical details are released apart from how to use it. Best bet is give john a call if you are after more information.

[Jason]

If interested i have the MF2, extra injectors, 2bar map sensor, and sigcon 2 for sale in the parts section, along with a turbo kit but you seem to have that sorted