What ECU?.....

[VTR-T]

As i am currently in the middle of a turbo project i was wondering for a cupple of ideas for my managment,


Thanx
Jamie

[Ryan]

if you plan to use standalone then obviously the usual names will come up.

[lcheater]

Predator ECU - hell of a lot cheaper than the usual big names and uses the standard plug and is completely mappable. Im in the process of a VTS turbo project and i will be using a Predator ECU. PM Luthor1 for details as he makes them and maps them.

[lcheater]

if you plan to use standalone then obviously the usual names will come up.
In my opinion, anything like piggy back etc i.e, not standalone is not an option for managing a turbo converted engine. That’s if you want to do it properly!

[WeThePeople]

If your good at soldering the megasquirt is one of the most versatile sensors out there. I put one on my RS Turbo and it was very straight forward, the only problem i faced was drilling a hole for a knock sensor. Motorsport Developments mapped it and it run very smooth.

Dont know much about the Saxo tbh, only owned mine a few weeks but the more sensors it has retrofit, the cheaper and easier the megasquirt is.

[lcheater]

If your good at soldering the megasquirt is one of the most versatile sensors out there. I put one on my RS Turbo and it was very straight forward, the only problem i faced was drilling a hole for a knock sensor. Motorsport Developments mapped it and it run very smooth.

Dont know much about the Saxo tbh, only owned mine a few weeks but the more sensors it has retrofit, the cheaper and easier the megasquirt is.

Would need to confirm with Luthor1 but i think the Predator was developed off the back of the Megasquirt - i.e took the concepts of the Megasquirt and improved on it.

[operation-saxo]

i really like the sound of the emerald standalone ecu loads of input/outputs and features you can store up to 3 maps on it so you can switch betwen maps 1 for balls out full power for track days and 1 for every day driving ect not a bad price to made by dave walker he has even made a haynes manual all about engine management so he knows his stuff but the only thing is places to get it maped in my mind i wouldnt take it any where but dave walker the maker which is in norfolk am in derby and am willing to drive it there and back. defo on top off my list out of all the ecu's i have looked into for my supercharged vts www.emeraldm3d.com

[lcheater]

www.emeraldm3d.com charges £580 for the ECU and loom adapters and £275 for the map. £855 and looks like there is VAT to pay on top of that, so it’s £1000 all in, which is around double the price of the Predator.

[lcheater]

www.emeraldm3d.com charges £580 for the ECU and loom adapters and £275 for the map. £855 and looks like there is VAT to pay on top of that, so it’s £1000 all in, which is around double the price of the Predator.

[luthor1]

...that's not the 'fitted' price, that's just the ECU + Mapping, it would still need to be wired into the car somehow... www.hiflowheads.co.uk sell looms for £300+vat to fit it.

***NOTE*** Dave Walker is one of the top mappers in the country, so don't take my post as anything other than informative, the Emerald product is top drawer, but also carries a top-drawer price. I'd be interested to do a specification comparison with the Predator

Andy

[operation-saxo]

carnt find any thing about the predator so carnt really coment but the emeraldm is still in the lower/mid price rang with KMS and the DTA S40 still cheap comperd to others. unless you go budget like megasquirt and if am right aint the predator a magasquirt any way? but you have to ask your self way do 99% of the people with standalones spend £1000+ insted of about £500 on a cheaper option. like above i would like to a spec and more info on the pedator

[luthor1]

I don't have to *ask myself* anything, since I *DONT* use a £1300+ ECU? I surely have to ask the people who use £1300+ ECU's why they do?

The predator shares the same processor as the Megasquirt, but the similarity ends there hardware wise. The MS is a very difficult ECU to fit and make work, for example on the Saxo, we use IAC Stepper motor for idle, and MS is only just offering support of this device so until early this year, the MS wouldn't run a Saxo anyway - perhaps that's one answer? I'm certain that a tiny percentage of people are inclined or even capable of building and soldering together a home-brew ECU, that requires an awful lot of knowledge! Yes, you can get built units in the UK, but they still require wiring in, and the Saxo poses an extremely interesting problem in terms of getting a switched live power signal to it, and we've designed the Predator to use the existing Saxo infrastructure and not just cobbled together the power side of things.

Like I said, the MS is not waterproof, so fitting to a Saxo up in the engien compartment is not really too sensible.

I sense an undertone of "cheap=nasty" in your post, I firmly believe that ECU's a staggeringly expensive pieces of kit, and they are not worth that sort of money. The reason there are not £700 ecu's up until now fitted is because the prices have been kept high.

What do you want to know about the Predator?

Andy

[lcheater]

I don't have to *ask myself* anything, since I *DONT* use a £1300+ ECU? I surely have to ask the people who use £1300+ ECU's why they do?

The predator shares the same processor as the Megasquirt, but the similarity ends there hardware wise. The MS is a very difficult ECU to fit and make work, for example on the Saxo, we use IAC Stepper motor for idle, and MS is only just offering support of this device so until early this year, the MS wouldn't run a Saxo anyway - perhaps that's one answer? I'm certain that a tiny percentage of people are inclined or even capable of building and soldering together a home-brew ECU, that requires an awful lot of knowledge! Yes, you can get built units in the UK, but they still require wiring in, and the Saxo poses an extremely interesting problem in terms of getting a switched live power signal to it, and we've designed the Predator to use the existing Saxo infrastructure and not just cobbled together the power side of things.

Like I said, the MS is not waterproof, so fitting to a Saxo up in the engien compartment is not really too sensible.

I sense an undertone of "cheap=nasty" in your post, I firmly believe that ECU's a staggeringly expensive pieces of kit, and they are not worth that sort of money. The reason there are not £700 ecu's up until now fitted is because the prices have been kept high.

What do you want to know about the Predator?

Andy

Good points well made!

[KamRacing]

I have no idea about the capabilities of the predator so i can't comment on its capability.

First look at who is going to map the engine. This is probably the biggest decision as an expert in your choice of ecu will map your car quicker and better than if they do not know the software etc. Also a popular brand can be mapped at more places. The experience of the mapper will make or break the quality of your engine build.

The Emerald is a very capable ecu. Maybe for a top racecar you might what a £1500 motec ecu with more load points but for a road car its more than adequate. Dave also has a fixed mapping price. The software is very easy to use too.
My personal fav is the DTA stuff. Its a very capable ecu and more importantly the people i trust to map my cars have loads of experience in getting the best out of it.

[VTR-T]

Thanx for all of thd above input,

And i have a few questions about the predator...for one does it have the capability to run anti-lag? And also does it have launch control same as the DTA?


May be placing my order for my DTA in the next cupple of days or next week..


Jamie.

[luthor1]

I'm making a 3-plug VTR ECU for a turbo package, and you're a VTR 1-plug right? I've got that ECU on the roadmap, and I'd be very interested to do it :)

Yes, the predator supports Launch Contrl and Flat Shifting, but not Anti-Lag. There are a number of question-marks over Anti-lag and turbo longevity, so it doesn't worry me too much that we don't support it (it's being developed I believe) however the answer is "no".

I'd build and develop an ECU for your car and you could try-b4-u-buy if you like? Costs you nothing and you'd see the system running and finished.

Either way I get another ECU design out of it for the future, and you get a no-strings trial.

Andy

[operation-saxo]

andy dont get ur knickers in a twist lol u oveously no more then i do about engine management espesily if you have made your own ecu. i dont mean cheap=nasty at all!!! sorry if it came across like that and i my self is very intrested in the predator espesily if its half the price of others and just as good if not better? as i havent made a decision on what ecu am going to use yet. i was commenting on the emerald as it seems a good contender against others in the same sort of price rang and ticks all the write boxes

[VTR-T]

thanx people,
I have made a final decision on my managment, i am going to go for the emerald ecu as it support all my needs(or wants) lol and with 3 interchangable maps, and for an extra 20-30 pounds i can purchase a switch to be able to change the map, so that will be ideal for economy and if i don't want to go balls out everywhere.

P.s does any1 know any1 or of any1 that is using one?

Regards.

[notts106gti]

DTA here

[VTR-T]

www.emeraldm3d.com charges £580 for the ECU and loom adapters and £275 for the map. £855 and looks like there is VAT to pay on top of that, so it’s £1000 all in, which is around double the price of the Predator.

I'm going to go Emerald from Ricky GRPerformance@live.co.uk there a dealer for Emerald, DTA etc and have the best prices on loom's ECU's and mapping.

[luthor1]

DO you know what those prices are, for the ECU, the fitting and the mapping?

Andy

[VTR-T]

DO you know what those prices are, for the ECU, the fitting and the mapping? Andy

Depends, what ECU?

[luthor1]

You said you were going for the Emerald in your previous post, and I was wondering what their fitted and mapped drive-in / out price was?

Andy

[VTR-T]

yea about 650 all in a think, my mate maps and does bespoke fabrication and custom looms:P

[Ryan]

In my opinion, anything like piggy back etc i.e, not standalone is not an option for managing a turbo converted engine. That’s if you want to do it properly!

Sorry but why quote me then did i mention a piggyback unit or a standalone? ;)

[lcheater]

Sorry but why quote me then did i mention a piggyback unit or a standalone? ;)

Oh sorry, it appears the way that post of mine came across was a not how I meant it! What I was trying to get across was, in my opinion standalone IS the only feasible option. Piggybacks and all the other management systems are, in my opinion bodge jobs! I suppose by quoting you, it made it sound like I was replying to your post directly, whereas I was adding to your post in effect.

Sorry mate;)

[luthor1]

yea about 650 all in a think, my mate maps and does bespoke fabrication and custom looms:P

That's a good price since the unit itself is £681.50 from the Emerald website and that's not fitted or mapped. I wonder if he's getting a discount on the Emerald ECU and then fitting and mapping it for free? Very generous service!

Andy

[Ryan]

Oh sorry, it appears the way that post of mine came across was a not how I meant it! What I was trying to get across was, in my opinion standalone IS the only feasible option. Piggybacks and all the other management systems are, in my opinion bodge jobs! I suppose by quoting you, it made it sound like I was replying to your post directly, whereas I was adding to your post in effect.

Sorry mate;)

no probs i thought you might have been suggesting i was refering to a piggyback like dastek when i am a not in favour of such an idea, standalones are far the better option especially when it comes to mapping long term/development