coming back to saxo scene ITB's and cams

[Robbo]

right im sick of the 200sx now and want to come back to the saxo scene.

im after a VTS which is going to get stripped to the bone with bodies and cams, looking for around 180bhp which i know is possible with this setup.

if i was to get a standard VTS, how much am i looking at for cams, TB's etc?

wheres the best place to get TB's, best cams to get (piper, catcam, newman etc) what duration cams im looking for?

will it have to be standalone ECU or can i go for a piggyback type?

any input appreciated as per, excluding anyone who says "just turbo it" not going down the forced induction route.

cheers

Robbo

EDIT:best place for a grp N or A or Rally spec exhaust, OMP? ashley?

[AlexB]

to get up to 180ish youll be looking at forged internal ect prolly upward of 6k to build it all
id go standalone (not seen one on a piggyback)
youll need about a 290 degree cam

then making the chassis handle the power with uprated mounts ect

[Robbo]

to get up to 180ish youll be looking at forged internal ect prolly upward of 6k to build it all
id go standalone (not seen one on a piggyback)
youll need about a 290 degree cam

then making the chassis handle the power with uprated mounts ect

yup mounts are first thing to be changed, thinking grp N gearbox mounts, engine mounts etc, strut braces, decent sus.

so you reckon a no no to standard internals?

oh 3000 posts:homme:

[AlexB]

i would say no no to standards for valve clearance on such a high cam
semi rigid group a mounts are the shizz
can get a full kit thats rather sweet

wont bore you too much wih all the sort the chassis noob stuff as being a returning member youve prolly heard it all lol

[Robbo]

i would say no no to standards for valve clearance on such a high cam
semi rigid group a mounts are the shizz
can get a full kit thats rather sweet

wont bore you too much wih all the sort the chassis noob stuff as being a returning member youve prolly heard it all lol

yeah i get the chassis crack, group A you reckon? strictly track car so ive got no need for comfort lol

just have no idea about the engine, last saxo was just basic exhaust, filter chavvyness :P

oh and any idea where i can start looking? link me :)

[AlexB]

i had group a semi rigid mounts in my vts and id get some decent stuff sus ect
vibrated a bit but other than that were ace (only had 150hp so not like im exerting huge forces on it)
im just learning the engine stuff but know most of the crack just the little detaily bits im unsure of lol

there are a few places but most guys will say gmc are good
and ive heard good things about gdi
and theres qep aswell

[Ryan]

180 on standard internals is a no no! imo.

160-170 at best. Id deffo upgrade the pistons, if nothing more to give a raise compression

qep built my 184bhp engine, although not sure if they are building still, id ring john at gmc aswell followed by gdi who are now owned by richard (who owns omex) so are doing good deals on bodies, ecus + mapping etc...

[Robbo]

180 on standard internals is a no no! imo.

160-170 at best. Id deffo upgrade the pistons, if nothing more to give a raise compression

qep built my 184bhp engine, although not sure if they are building still, id ring john at gmc aswell followed by gdi who are now owned by richard (who owns omex) so are doing good deals on bodies, ecus + mapping etc...

isnt 160bhp available with breather mods, cams and a good remap on v-power fuel? correct me if im wrong please.

im thinking enough with the bodies and just stick to cams, seems alot more work for that extra few 10-20BHP if you know what i meen?

i shall start again: max power from cams, breather mods, remap?

ryan, what was the spec of your 184bhp engine? cheers

EDIT: unless im missing something and its possible to get more than that on ITB's?
EDIT2: standard clutch, it capable of holding an extra 40-50bhp on top of standard?

[Ryan]

160 depending on the rollers with 708s, alot really only are 148-155.

Bodies allow you to run a wilder cam, they dont give big bhp alone, standrard TU inlet manifold design is quite good as standard. Its when running the madder cam *which needs valve cut outs in pistons* where you will see massive gains. Plus its not just about bhp its how the power is delivered, the better throttle response on bodies etc...

my spec is here
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188610

[Ryan]

seen edit, mines running standard clutch ok.

and 200bhp+ is achievable, how big are your pockets though.

you wont get anywhere 180 without atleast valve cut outs in standard pistons..

[Robbo]

160 depending on the rollers with 708s, alot really only are 148-155.

Bodies allow you to run a wilder cam, they dont give big bhp alone, standrard TU inlet manifold design is quite good as standard. Its when running the madder cam *which needs valve cut outs in pistons* where you will see massive gains. Plus its not just about bhp its how the power is delivered, the better throttle response on bodies etc...

my spec is here
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188610

very nice spec you got there, thats given me some ideas actually plus a bit of inspiration :)

cheers mate

[Ryan]

no probs, big power wont come cheap mind!

Ill hopefully get a better power figure end of jan, as that was a run when it was totally new and should in theory of freed up a little bit now.

all theory though, either way its fairly good fun

[Robbo]

seen edit, mines running standard clutch ok.

and 200bhp+ is achievable, how big are your pockets though.

you wont get anywhere 180 without atleast valve cut outs in standard pistons..

yeh i get it, pockets arnt that big, ive got short arms tbh

i want a budget track car and new pistons, conrods etc dont come into my category of "budget" lol

:)

[Robbo]

no probs, big power wont come cheap mind!

Ill hopefully get a better power figure end of jan, as that was a run when it was totally new and should in theory of freed up a little bit now.

all theory though, either way its fairly good fun

yeah man, thanks for your help anyway, hopefully everything should come into place once ive got rid of this car.

:)

[Ryan]

if you want big power cheap DIY turbo imo.

I know you said thread tat top etc... Im a NA man but a DIY turbo is the most economical imo

[Robbo]

if you want big power cheap DIY turbo imo.

I know you said thread tat top etc... Im a NA man but a DIY turbo is the most economical imo

ive heard how unreliable it can be plus the fact thats going to need forged internals surely?

i know its not for everyday road use but it still needs to get me to the track and back lol

again correct me if im wrong :)

[Ryan]

dont need forgies on a diy boosted conversion.

aslong as its done right and not wound up to much good power can be had for not alot.

I know of a diy 1.4 on standard internals making 180ish

[Robbo]

dont need forgies on a diy boosted conversion.

aslong as its done right and not wound up to much good power can be had for not alot.

I know of a diy 1.4 on standard internals making 180ish

is it safe though on standard internals. no point spending money in the first place if your going to melt a piston or bend some valves, if you get me

[Ryan]

many people have run boosted engines on standard internals, some with double headgasgets to reduce compression.

Im not a boosted man im an NA man, but i know of a few making good power for fuck all £££

[Robbo]

many people have run boosted engines on standard internals, some with double headgasgets to reduce compression.

Im not a boosted man im an NA man, but i know of a few making good power for fuck all £££

sounds good, ill have a search about the forums see what i can find out. any idea what boost pressure these guys are running, we must be talking really low on standard internals 7psi 0.5 bar?

[Ryan]

not a clue tbh, like i say im an NA man.

I just know a DIY turbo is a great way to good power on the cheap these days with the TU

[Robbo]

not a clue tbh, like i say im an NA man.

I just know a DIY turbo is a great way to good power on the cheap these days with the TU

alright mate thanks for your help, ill have a scout about.

anyone else with any info please shout out wether your talking about the turbo route or links to good places to buy parts from.

cheers

[Ryan]

gav (sophia bush) on here did a good thread.

[luthor1]

HI there

just a shout for what Ryan says really - he knows his stuff. As for forgies on turbo engines, the answer is the torque figure, once the torque figure goes over the point whereby you'd change the pistons on an NA setup, then you change them on a turbo setup.

On the ECU side, my ECU is Plug-n-play on the 1-plug loom, and they're currently £550 which includes fitting and mapping. Fitting and mapping on a throttle body setup is easy-peasy. It's an extremely cheap solution when compared with others! But don't be put off by that :)

Andy

[Robbo]

HI there

just a shout for what Ryan says really - he knows his stuff. As for forgies on turbo engines, the answer is the torque figure, once the torque figure goes over the point whereby you'd change the pistons on an NA setup, then you change them on a turbo setup.

On the ECU side, my ECU is Plug-n-play on the 1-plug loom, and they're currently £550 which includes fitting and mapping. Fitting and mapping on a throttle body setup is easy-peasy. It's an extremely cheap solution when compared with others! But don't be put off by that :)

Andy

thats a good price! i take it you map for everything not just TB's?

have you got a website?

cheers

[luthor1]

yes map for everything.

No not got website sorted, well have the URL but not written the content yet :)

see the affiliates section for some information - it's Datashift

Andy

[Yates]

robbo you been out in a cammed s? mines bout 148bhp and certainly makes me happy, id take you out and let you have ago if its somewhere quiet so you get the idea, mines pretty stripped now, running with the group n engine mounts and powerflex bushes all around

[Robbo]

yes map for everything.

No not got website sorted, well have the URL but not written the content yet :)

see the affiliates section for some information - it's Datashift

Andy

orite mate ill check it out :)

cheers


robbo you been out in a cammed s? mines bout 148bhp and certainly makes me happy, id take you out and let you have ago if its somewhere quiet so you get the idea, mines pretty stripped now, running with the group n engine mounts and powerflex bushes all around

nope, only my old pretty standard VTS. where you get the engine mounts and bushes from? yeh i wouldnt mind going out in it actually if thats ok! :)

cheers

[vlatko_vts]

to get up to 180ish youll be looking at forged internal ect prolly upward of 6k to build it all
id go standalone (not seen one on a piggyback)
youll need about a 290 degree cam

then making the chassis handle the power with uprated mounts ect

Did you know where to find cheapest standalone?

[Matty-VTR]

150bhpish in a stripped VTS is enough to blow most things on track mate ;)

Just put some wilder cams in it, exhaust + filter and get it set up on the rollers where they can remap and do the cam timing

[AlexB]

Did you know where to find cheapest standalone?

not really anywere for a cheap one
im looking about a grand for the one i want

150bhpish in a stripped VTS is enough to blow most things on track mate ;)

Just put some wilder cams in it, exhaust + filter and get it set up on the rollers where they can remap and do the cam timing

will say my vts was quick cammed and stripped
but it was still one of the slowest cars on track

[Boyes]

With breathing mods and cat cam 708's and remap you should see 155bhp, you could see higher figures but less torque. There's a guy on 106oc with his gti running 172bhp, but the sites down so I couldn't tell you the spec.
If you had some headwork as well then you'd be getting closer, but like already said for 180bhp i think dished pistons, but with the money you would be spending you might as well push for as much as possible.

[Ryan]

172 on 708s, if thats standard inlet i need to get on those rollers, mine should see 230bhp then.

[Boyes]

172 on 708s, if thats standard inlet i need to get on those rollers, mine should see 230bhp then.

Sorry i never said 172 on 708's i said i didn't know his spec, just saying what you can expect from 708's and standard induction.

[Ryan]

708s are a good cam choice, iirc daveP actually went back to them after the 715s on his hillclimber

[Yates]

150bhpish in a stripped VTS is enough to blow most things on track mate ;)

Just put some wilder cams in it, exhaust + filter and get it set up on the rollers where they can remap and do the cam timing

if going wilder than 708s your best going uprated internals, which if doing all that, may as well go throttle bodies as well :D

just let us know robbo mate when your bout and il see when i am

got group n mounts from someone on here, got powerflex set from ebay bout 2 years ago, were 180 for full set then

[saxo_ron]

Pugracing do groupN mounts for sensible prices

[Steve]

Pugracing do groupN mounts for sensible prices

oo yeah.

Miles does them and with great service, currently doesnt do the mount under the ecu yet only for mk1 106's.

But does the upper gearbox and lower gearbox one.
More than happy with mine, there £32 each iic well the upper gearbox one is definately.

Drop me a pm if you want his contact details robbo.

[Robbo]

if going wilder than 708s your best going uprated internals, which if doing all that, may as well go throttle bodies as well :D

just let us know robbo mate when your bout and il see when i am

got group n mounts from someone on here, got powerflex set from ebay bout 2 years ago, were 180 for full set then

oright mate nice one, ill be in touch, think your on my msn somewhere anyway! :)

oo yeah.

Miles does them and with great service, currently doesnt do the mount under the ecu yet only for mk1 106's.

But does the upper gearbox and lower gearbox one.
More than happy with mine, there £32 each iic well the upper gearbox one is definately.

Drop me a pm if you want his contact details robbo.

if you could PM me his number id be more than happy, all this is for over the next few months so im going to need it! :) cheers