vtr turbo

[landanimal]

i have noticed that cituning and other companies that offer a diy turbo conversions do not suggest or require any engine work to be done to the car as long as you run it on low boost like 6 psi? is that right? like if you got all the bits you need to turbo it and remapped the ecu it would work and be "safe" as long as you run it on low boost (6psi)?

[Matt]

If you run it on low boost the performance uprade wont be as good as going the whole nine yards and changing pistons etc. then you can run bigger boost and have more fun:wink:

[Matt]

But answering your question, you can do it with it being safe..

[landanimal]

thanks mate that was the answer i was looking for im planning on turboing it with the t2 turbo and run it on low boost then build up some money then go the whole 9 yards and do the lot. thanks mate you have helped

[Matt]

How much is the kit. I might invest when i get a vtr..

[Mathias]

You cant remap your standard ecu to run boost, you'll need something to control the fuelling, either a 5th/6th injector setup with mf2 or standalone management.

[JamesR]

wouldnt cams be more beneficial than 6psi of boost? and cheaper?

[VTEC-Saxo]

if your not gona forge your internals, if your handy with a welder you mgiht as well do a HMT home mde turbo system source parts cheaper ect if just looking for losw boost, thers a guy braggin his mates does 5th injector turbo kits for about 500 quid

[Mathias]

How much is the kit. I might invest when i get a vtr..

The basic kit starts from around £1500 iirc, but you will need more bits than that to run even basic boost.

[Mathias]

wouldnt cams be more beneficial than 6psi of boost? and cheaper?

Not in a vtr, i wouldn't imagine so anyway.

[nassso]

I have a friend with VTR with IHI turbo running on remapped ecu 1 bar of boost with stock internals and 20 000 kilometers without any problems. If you don't need something very powerful stock internals are working very well up to 1 bar of boost. So it's not very expensive if you are Ok with 170-180hp.

[AXracing]

The basic cituning does not even have a intercooler. The power gains it gives are very small. It heats the air more than it pressurises it. In so it end up not a world away from flowing the same amount of air mass as it originally did. They also have this little widget they call a Signal Modifier to conditions the ECU. Some other companies have used a variable rate fuel pressure regulator to add the little bit of extra fuel required. None are a direct fit with out some way of altering the original fuelling.

Add a good intercooler and some extra fuel to even it out and you get a much larger gain in power.

Drop the engine compression with by using twin head gaskets, A decomp plate, Low comp pistons or a high volume head and then you can start running more boost and get even bigger gains in power.

[landanimal]

yea i heard if you start doin internals like cams etc. it then puts more of a strain on the bottom end so then you have to spend alot of money doin that to wich leads to more so for time bein could just run it on low boost with stock internals. and cituning doesn't offer you a 5th injector untill stage 2 kit they provide. so surely if you just basically get what you need you'll be fine untill you want more power?

[Mathias]

Although the kit doesn't offer a 5th injector you will still need one mate, i'd contact john at gmc, iirc they sell an elbow setup with 5th injector holder.

The 5th injector will be needed as the engine will need more fuel, even at low boost, once you do go 'the whole nine yards' with internals etc then you may need to change for something more reliable - e.g - standalone management

[wigansaxo]

theres a turbo kit of piston haeds for an 8v if anyones interested

[landanimal]

how much does gmc supply a fith injector conversion for?

[Mathias]

Here is a link to the gmc fifth injector elbow:

http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=208

This is for use with a supercharger, however could easily be used for turbo setups also :y:

[landanimal]

thanks for the help mate will have a good look at this.

[landanimal]

if you get the 5th injector wouldnt you need to remap i know you have to remap anyway? and also cituning offer a 5th injector in there stage 3 kit that means surely you dont need a fifth injector until you want to run high boost (witch i dont) and they offer a remap for the fifth injector witch is £150 but surely you dont need a fifth injector if cituning doesnt offer one till stage 3 kit? if not cant you just put bigger injectors in than standard? like maybe vts injectors if they are any bigger i dont know?

[coolj522]

if anyone was ointerested in doinga turbo conversion kit on an 8v of some sort... i have got injectors that will suit perfectly... they are 330cc injectors... good for 230bhp according to Q-E-P. i bought them but they will not suit my application...

WIDE-VTR-TURBO can vouvh for them as i bought them off hime they have never been run, these retail at 60-70 each.... so grab yourselves a bargin...

pm me for A PRICE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED....

CHEERS...

[landanimal]

thanks. what do i do about the fueling and what do i do about the ecu just a remap?

[AXracing]

if you get the 5th injector wouldnt you need to remap i know you have to remap anyway? and also cituning offer a 5th injector in there stage 3 kit that means surely you dont need a fifth injector until you want to run high boost (witch i dont) and they offer a remap for the fifth injector witch is £150 but surely you dont need a fifth injector if cituning doesnt offer one till stage 3 kit? if not cant you just put bigger injectors in than standard? like maybe vts injectors if they are any bigger i dont know?

You need something.

For very minimal boost you can simply add a higher pressure fuel regulator. But that is very minimal boost.

Citunning use a Signal Modifier on there basic kit that allows you to run around 5psi of non cooled boost.

Some people have used larger injectors and a boot varying fuel pressure regulator. This tends to cost quite a lot and is quite tricky to get working well. Its also not good value so no one tends to do it any more.

Next step is something like a MF2 and a extra injector (5th injector) this is good from anything from minimal boost to well over 200bhp. This is cheap and easy to setup. Often combined with a SigCon2/3 for better throttle response and safe high boost setups.

Another option is remap stock ECU. This costs quite a lot and only a few people can do it well. Also every time you want to alter it it costs a lot again. Its not really a good way to go. If you want to go for higher boost you also have to add bigger injectors.

There is also the unichip that for the most part is the same as a remap. There is just a few more people who can map it so it may end up a bit cheaper if you wish to get the map altered a lot.

Most people these days use stand alone engine management. You can pick them up for a few hundred these days and work superbly well. You can run basically any setup you like on them. A standard engine to a fire breathing 400+bhp engine. You do tend to have to pay out for a professional map job but any further alterations to the map are generally done at greatly reduced costs.

[landanimal]

im only planning on running like 6psi? so what would be the cheapest route for me?

[AXracing]

If you have no intercooler and use a small turbo such as Citunning use you can just use the same bit Citunning do. If your after using a intercooler and possibly further tuning later than a MF2 is a good way to go. If you dont wish to do any further tuning then a remap is ok.

[landanimal]

well i have my manifold now and will be using an intercooler and a t2 turbo at 6psi so im not sure what setup to use couldnt i simply remap my standard ecu to the setup? and if so could i use my standard injectors?

[boz]

i would invest in the inlet elbow with extra injector and the mf2 kit
i had this on my s/c vtr and it worked no problem.

it will be a safer option even when running a low psi to ensure you are getting the corredt fueling while on boost. you will need the following (all available from gmc)
mf2 unit and loom
injector + fitting kit
inlet elbow with 5th injector take off
silicone piping
2 bar map sensor

you will benefit from an intercooler as well, there are a few going cheap on ebay, you dont need a massive one.

you should have a healthy boosted vtr then

or have a look at dp-engineering turbo kits, they are a work of art and alot better than cituning kits imo

[landanimal]

where abouts on gmc website can i find the injector and fitting kit? and is it expensive? and also if i have a 5th injector and mf2 will i need a remap on standard ecu?

[boz]

no mate, you dont touch the standard ecu. the idea of the MF2 unit and 5th injector, is to spray the extra fueling into the boost thats going into the throttle body and down into the inlet and combustion chambers. the stock ecu dosnt have a clue its running with boost, the MF2 does the extra work ;)

pitty as i have just sold a S/C kit with a brand new mf2, elbow, injector and a shit load of stuff. basically a full kit bar a few hoses for a saxo S/C conversion.
well, i say sold, im just waiting on a payment to be made lol

if you have a look on the gmc site, everything is listed on there.
i will look for a link, give me a few mins ;)

[boz]

http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29_38
its the mf2 unit you will need, dont worry about the loom as it comes in the kit

http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_68
ask for the elbow with a single injector, john used to supply them.

hope that helps mate.

[landanimal]

oh right i see so what injector do i ue for 5th? just a standard one off another vtr? or a better one? and thanks mate you know more about this than me lol im just looking for loads of info i have got the manifold basically got the intercooler and bits and bobs lol

[landanimal]

sorry mate but with the elbow link you gave witch one is the elbow with the single injector?

[boz]

there is an elbow with 2 joints coming off it, this is where you would mount the extra injectors. i think the twin one was £55??

best to ring them and ask to chat to john, see if he still does the single injector elbow and ask him for an injector. i can get the part number of the one i have in a kit if that will help.

you wont need to touch the standard ecu, just need the mf2 unit and a 2 bar map sensor for the inlet pressure as the standard one reads to small.

if you are running a single plug ecu you dont need a signal conditioner. i never used one.
single plug ecus were fitted to mk saxos.

then it will a case of having the mf2 setup to run with the turbo.
you will need to fit a return and feed for the turbo. you can modify the sump for a return, then you will need a feed from the block. you can remove the oil pressure sensor and fit an adaptor that allows you to tee off an oil feed.

there is quite a bit of gear needed to turbo a car and its not really a thing you can do for cheap.

buts its well worth it.

pm me if you get stuck with anything mate

[landanimal]

thanks mate will do that.
on gmc i found the 1.5 bar map sensor is that good enough? i cant find 2 bar map sensor? anyway mate thanks for the help if i need more help i'll let you know. thanks

[boz]

i had a 2bar map sensor and a 4.5 bar fuel pressure regulator all from gmc.
you will be best to chat to john at gmc, he knows his shit. if you tell him what you are doing, he will advise accordingly. but bare in mind for any future upgrading. you soon get used to boost, its like an addiction, once your hooked, you want more and more lol

i think the standaed map sensor reads up to 1bar

[boz]

have a look here www.dp-engineering.nl

they do a mean de-compression plate for the tu engine both 8v and 16v ;)

[landanimal]

what decompression plate will i need to go for?

[boz]

the 8v TU one. just get hold of the one that lowers the compression the most

[boz]

will save you from having to get foged pistons and rods just now. you will be able to run a tad more than 6psi :)

[bullit]

as said i wouldnt even bother with it. do it properly first time round rather than getting something that will keep you happy for about 10 minutes

[landanimal]

yea i know so i want to lower the compression as much as possible so then i might be able to run 7-8psi? how so i know witch tu 8v decompression plate lowers compression more there are 2

TU5JP (1587cc 8v) 9.6 : 1 8.9 : 1
TU5JP (1587cc 8v) 9.6 : 1 8.6 : 1

im guessing there the only 2 because they are tu5jp engines and then it goes on to tu5j2 engines witch im guessing is the mk2? i have the mk1

[boz]

best thing to do will be to email them and ask. im sure it was peiter i was speaking to when i called. he really knows his stuff and will inform you well.
i would probs say to go for the lower one ;)

i have never used a de-comp plate on the saxo, i used one on my escort rs turbo with zetec bottom end and it was an awesome setup. bit thats a totally different motor.

it wont do any harm to fit one now along with a new headgasket, timing belt etc when doing the turbo conversion, then you are getting piece of mind.
if you decided later on that you want more power ie fit forged pistons and rods. you will just remove the plate and sell it on ;)
you could get away with the plate and an increase in boost, if you were taking it higher without fitting forged pistons and rods, you can use erl water injection which will help to cool the boost temps down. then there is the co2 injection that you can fit to an intercooler. bigger intercooler etc. i will also recommend that you fit a good sized oil cooler as well :)

the list is endless.
i think you could get a decent, realiable turbo conversion on a any saxo, without going to the extent of fitting forged internals. its all about cooling the boost temps and oil temps. increasing intercooler sizes, lowering comp. ratios, fitting water injection, co2 injection over the intecooler etc can be used to help this, which in turn will allow you to wind up the boost a wee bit.

for silly bhp figures, you will have to fit forged internals and run standalone managements systems.

[boz]

doing this is never cheap.

you open up a whole new can of worms, you need better clutch to cope with the power.
a uprated diff is also a very good investment. then you need bigger brakes etc.

its all adds up very very quickly lol

[landanimal]

yea i know lol but if i put a thick decompression plate get what i need like oil cooler and pipes and mf2 and basically all the basic stuff and run it on 6psi then after that think about more boost. and will i need a new fuel pump?

[landanimal]

for fueling i just get an mf2 and a 5th injetor elbow and 5th injector? how much would that cost for the elbow and 5th injector? i know mf2 is around £200

[AXracing]

for fueling i just get an mf2 and a 5th injetor elbow and 5th injector? how much would that cost for the elbow and 5th injector? i know mf2 is around £200

And you have to get the correct map sensor for the boost you wish to run.

[landanimal]

yea im only planning on running 6 psi so a 1.5 bar map sensor will be ok wouldnt it?

[sexoturbs]

do you have all 4? and how much are u lookin?

[sexoturbs]

hi all, i have just fitted a T2 turbo to my saxo, its a 1.6 8v i baught the kit off my m8 but i think its stage 1 that cituning do. after fittin i took it for a spin but it feels no faster :( does any1 no why this might be?

[sexoturbs]

LANDANIMAL, that 1st question was for you about your injectors, im new to this lol. do u still have them? is it the set? how much did you want for them?

cheers

[saxo_girl_1985]

if adding a t2 turbo, u should really add the 5th injector, to feed the boost with fuel.

with out the 5th injector ur looking at gaining around 4psi, the 5th injector could boost it up to around 6-7psi.

and as for the person who just fitted the t2, do u have a 5th injector set-up? or some kind of extra fuel feed???

[sexoturbs]

No i have done nothing at all to the fuel feed, im fitting new front mount intercooler and a fuel regulator to it next week. i was told the standard fuel pump and injectors should b fine. surley i should see some sort of gain after this?

im gonna buy the cituning 5th injector kit at the end of june. that comes with the mf2, 2bar map sensor and 5th injector.

[saxo_girl_1985]

No i have done nothing at all to the fuel feed, im fitting new front mount intercooler and a fuel regulator to it next week. i was told the standard fuel pump and injectors should b fine. surley i should see some sort of gain after this?

im gonna buy the cituning 5th injector kit at the end of june. that comes with the mf2, 2bar map sensor and 5th injector.

well without the the 5th injector, u should still notice SOME BOOST

and yeah you can use ur standard fuel pump/injectors.

[sexoturbs]

hmm well my guages are sayin itss boostin ok and my dump valve sounds mint. the only thing i think it could be is because the air its forcing in is to hot, i have a small crack in my manifold....

well im fitting my f/m intercooler, induction n that next week so hope tht helps, :)

[jsdvtr]

How hard is it to actually set up a and fit to a saxo?

[sexoturbs]

How hard is it to actually set up a and fit to a saxo?

piece of cake m8, it dint take me long to put mine on. basicly just bolts on if you have all the right stuff.

[jsdvtr]

Thats what i thought. Id love to my vts engine turbo'd. Wouldnt be wanting a mega high spec build just a low boost and reliable set up.

[sexoturbs]

i need a vtr manifold for my turbo doese any one have 1?

[Everton1]

hi people iv just got my self a saxo vtr put a piper cross filter on it and now i want a full exaust system is there any that give top bhp gain