Datashift: Predator Power Graph

[luthor1]

Hi all,

I took my car to Janspeed today, and gave it a bit of a mapping on their rolling road. After a tweak here and a nip and tuck there, here is the power graph.

**THIS IS WHEELS BHP**


http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n218/red_baron_2006/sax-p-upload.jpg


I'm quite pleased with this. According to theory, to convert from wheel to flywheel on a FWD car, you add 10bhp and Divide by 0.9.

This would give a peak power of 143bhp at the flywheel

Mods: Supersprint Exhaust System, a rubbish cone air filter and the Predator ECU

Andy

Take control!

[Toad]

118bhp atw on stock cams? Mine has 112bhp atw with 708s... What's going on? :panic:

[raunchz]

Like it a lot !!! The curve looks pretty smooth too - good work!

[luthor1]

We made some gains mainly at the bottom end, and as such I'm pretty pleased with the torque curve! It's nice and flat and feels just like it looks when driving!

:geek:

Andy

[raunchz]

How long did you roughly spend on the dyno tweaking the map ?

[luthor1]

How long did you roughly spend on the dyno tweaking the map ?

Ross,

5 runs, so 40 minutes I guess? Nothing dramatic.

Andy

[ryhornvtr]

118bhp atw on stock cams? Mine has 112bhp atw with 708s... What's going on? :panic:

112 seems low imo. Mine was 103 atw when it was running badly, not been rr'd since.

[Mr_X]

impressive figures there Andy

[PETE-VTR]

wow thats impressive!

good work man!!!

[Sophia_Bush]

yes I like that :D

[fossie]

Damn thats a pretty good result matey

[vtr-richie]

swaheet well done andy better than the original pnp rcd dyno...

[evans1089]

I'm quite pleased with this. According to theory, to convert from wheel to flywheel on a FWD car, you add 10bhp and Divide by 0.9.


So to work out bhp at the wheel is it minus 10bhp and times by 0.9?

(a-10-bhp)*0.9=?

[luthor1]

I've just realised what you meant...

To go from flywheel to wheels, multiply by 0.9 and minus 10.

Andy

[williamsvts]

good results that. well done with it.

[Steve]

need a bigger graph in future ;)
good work mate.

[williamsvts]

it was yesterday, must of been resized???

[gouldy87]

I've just realised what you meant...

To go from flywheel to wheels, multiply by 0.9 and minus 10.

Andy

very inaccurate method of calculating

[luthor1]

very inaccurate method of calculating

David Baker at Puma Racing seems to know what he's talking about...

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm

He is the guy who developed the near-200bhp head for QEP on that MAD engine...

I posted the WHEELS BHP and Torque to prevent arguments on my thread, and negativity, so my 'calculation' of peak power, take with a pinch of salt!

Group Hug!

Andy

[lcheater]

very inaccurate method of calculating

Taken from http://www.dyno-power-run.com

To reflect the fact that power losses are high for low powered cars and vice versa we have
use the following equations which have been found to correlate well with real world transmission losses.

FWD cars - add 10 bhp to the wheel figure and divide the result by 0.9
RWD cars - add 10 bhp to the wheel figure and divide the result by 0.88
4WD cars - add 10bhp to the wheel figure and divide the result by 0.84

Please Note: these flywheel figures are not "gospel" - they are good realistic averages. The measured wheel bhp can change depending on tyre pressure, tyre size, suspension angles and other things which won't affect flywheel power - so the actual transmission loss % will also change.

[Slammed_Posi_Vtr]

So what are you saying, i'm missing the point here!

This impressive power figure and the smooth curve is due to the predator ecu? how much are you looking at to have you do what you have done to your car mapping wise + buying and fitting the pred ecu then?

hope that makes sense

Jon

[lcheater]

So what are you saying, i'm missing the point here!

This impressive power figure and the smooth curve is due to the predator ecu? how much are you looking at to have you do what you have done to your car mapping wise + buying and fitting the pred ecu then?

hope that makes sense

Jon

Yes you are correct, the smooth curve and impressive power figure has been achieved via the predator ECU.

Details of the group buy for the ECU can be found here:

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216905

[Slammed_Posi_Vtr]

Just checked the predator thread, bring on a 3 plug ecu for a vtr!!!

I've also noticed that you would be willing to do a group buy for the pred ecu on a furio, would you be interesting in doing this for a vtr???? im sure you would have loads of interest !

[Ryan]

very inaccurate method of calculating

The most commonly accepted way of calculating throughout the industry tbh.

[JamesR]

On a VTS i take it?

[Ryan]

yes andy has a vts.

[luthor1]

Yeah got myself a little grey VTS... in my Sig picture!

Andy

[Ferg]

That is really impressive ... I think I need Predator in my life. (Not the member ;) )

[JamesR]

Yeah got myself a little grey VTS... in my Sig picture!

Andy


Lol i have just spotted the 16v badge on the rear.

I feel like a D**K :wall:

[Ryan]

Lol i have just spotted the 16v badge on the rear.

I feel like a D**K :wall:

I dont think you even need to look at the car, the figures alone would tell you its not an 8v by a long shot lol!

[JamesR]

I dont think you even need to look at the car, the figures alone would tell you its not an 8v by a long shot lol!

The figures where what made me post my first post about it being an "S"

[luthor1]

I'll let you off - the badge looks pretty tiny on my piccie!!

Thanks Ferg.... culmination of an awful lot of work now... I'm also enjoying factory-feel idle on the stock idle valve finally! Totally transforms the car.

My evenings now involve remote-controlling customers PC's over the internet and flashing the firmware on their ECU's!!

ManC can testify to that!

It is quite funny watching the software over the internet with the car idling and, watching the gauges go round and setting up the various parameters from the comfort of my living room!

The future is remote control...

Andy

[DJDannyB]

I'll let you off - the badge looks pretty tiny on my piccie!!

Thanks Ferg.... culmination of an awful lot of work now... I'm also enjoying factory-feel idle on the stock idle valve finally! Totally transforms the car.

My evenings now involve remote-controlling customers PC's over the internet and flashing the firmware on their ECU's!!

ManC can testify to that!

It is quite funny watching the software over the internet with the car idling and, watching the gauges go round and setting up the various parameters from the comfort of my living room!

The future is remote control...

Andy

Now that is good :D
Msn does have a use then haha...

p.s i want one :(

[manc]

I'll let you off - the badge looks pretty tiny on my piccie!!

Thanks Ferg.... culmination of an awful lot of work now... I'm also enjoying factory-feel idle on the stock idle valve finally! Totally transforms the car.

My evenings now involve remote-controlling customers PC's over the internet and flashing the firmware on their ECU's!!

ManC can testify to that!

It is quite funny watching the software over the internet with the car idling and, watching the gauges go round and setting up the various parameters from the comfort of my living room!

The future is remote control...

Andy

I can entirely testify for Andy's evening's being taken up by medaling 'for the better' with my ecu :y:, I'm sure I would struggle & indeed any Predator user for that matter to do certian updates and tweaks to the Predator from a LONG list of instructions, remote administration of a laptop connected to the Predator is the way forward! it makes the whole 'updating/tweaking' process a whole lot safer & quiker :y:

Again Andy, your efforts and continued supported is much appreciated :y:

[manc]

Now that is good :D
Msn does have a use then haha...

p.s i want one :(

Its a little more than MSN m8e, you can give entire desktop/laptop control to a remote user, you literally see the mouse moving once control is handed over :y:

ManC

[lcheater]

Its a little more than MSN m8e, you can give entire desktop/laptop control to a remote user, you literally see the mouse moving once control is handed over :y:

ManC

Yeah but i think he is referring to the remote control feature within MSN. :y:

[DJDannyB]

Yes you can do that with msn, i thought thats how he was doing it lol, so whats the other way of doing it guys? would be interesting to know :)

[Sophia_Bush]

I'll let you off - the badge looks pretty tiny on my piccie!!

Thanks Ferg.... culmination of an awful lot of work now... I'm also enjoying factory-feel idle on the stock idle valve finally! Totally transforms the car.

My evenings now involve remote-controlling customers PC's over the internet and flashing the firmware on their ECU's!!

ManC can testify to that!

It is quite funny watching the software over the internet with the car idling and, watching the gauges go round and setting up the various parameters from the comfort of my living room!

The future is remote control...

Andy



legend looks like you can do my tps and other stuff to :D

[manc]

Yeah but i think he is referring to the remote control feature within MSN. :y:

Yes you can do that with msn, i thought thats how he was doing it lol, so whats the other way of doing it guys? would be interesting to know :)

ofc, remote assistant, Never personally used it but it does exist, me & Andy used a 3rd party tool which is setup at my workplace, seemed to work well.

ManC

[raunchz]

Having met Andy I can say he's a top bloke and have all the confidence getting the Predator fitted and mapped for my TB's. The profile of the curves speak for themselves!

[lcheater]

Yes you can do that with msn, i thought thats how he was doing it lol, so whats the other way of doing it guys? would be interesting to know :)

You can configure your OS to allow the external systems remote control, but it is considered a security issue in most cases because it requires certain ports to be open, which means they are open to attack by anyone on the internet.

Logme.com is a good service to use for remote access. I use it at work to connect to my home PC. Its free too :-)

Anyway, this is now off topic. Sorry Andy!

[Mystic]

Wow, better than you were expecting then i suppose? unless you were just being quietly confident on monday ;)

Not that i think its necessary but i will also testify to the fantastic support Andy provides with the ECU, despite me not even being one of his actual customers!

Thats a fantastic result, well deserved imo. Its nifty how those 2 leaner spikes at the high end are visible in plain sight on the graph too!

[luthor1]

Thanks for noticing the fuel/wobble!! :geek:

What's happening there is that I'm 'cheating' a little. I'm targetting the air/fuel ratio with the wideband algorithm, however the map was quite a long way from the target up the top, so the algorithm was having to pull it a LONG way away from the basic map setting to get to where I wanted it to be.

I've just got to beef up the fuelling at the top end so the algorithm isn't having to pull it so far, since it's designed to adjust the fuelling best at cruise RPM rather than high RPM it is not as efficient!

But - I digress, well spotted!!

Andy

[Sophia_Bush]

since my gti is still standard I think some back to back tests are needed at my local ish rolling road company aldon automotive to compare

[Matty-VTR]

Ross,

5 runs, so 40 minutes I guess? Nothing dramatic.

Andy

You mapped a car in 40 minutes?

[Matty-VTR]

Next time your at janspeed plug the standard ECU and give it a power run then compare both maps ;)

That will then show us the gains Pred ECU can give with breathing mods

[luthor1]

Matty,

The map has been developed over many months and many hours of 'fiddling' on the road, so inevitably, it wasn't a million miles away so only needed mild faffing to bring it in line.

Andy

[Mystic]

I meant to ask this morning actually, is there an algorithm available to target AFR values and have the ECU do the leg work? Or is it a little more involved than that? I've got my map fairly consistent now but ive got a few more Qs for you when i get the car back on the road.

[luthor1]

Mystic

yes, with the new code, you get the map "close" and let the algorithm do the rest. The closer you are, the less wavering the power curve.

I was truly miles away at the top end on mine hence the wobbling, but I got the information I needed!

I was mainly interested on how the ignition timing altered the torque at low revs...

Interesting that I've got 90lbsft at 2600rpm :cool:

Andy
"My car chugs up steep hills in 5th"

[Sophia_Bush]

Next time your at janspeed plug the standard ECU and give it a power run then compare both maps ;)

That will then show us the gains Pred ECU can give with breathing mods

it will happen matty when I get my predator it will have oe pug ecu vs predator

[Matty-VTR]

Matty,

The map has been developed over many months and many hours of 'fiddling' on the road, so inevitably, it wasn't a million miles away so only needed mild faffing to bring it in line.

Andy

Fair enough

[Matty-VTR]

it will happen matty when I get my predator it will have oe pug ecu vs predator

Nice one mate :y:

[luthor1]

I do plan on going back and getting a 'stock' map from the same dyno... would be good for comparisons!

Andy