TB's 8v ????

[DJVTR]

this maybe a n00b quwestion but... can fit throttle bodies on an 8v if not why ?

[frankie]

yes you can....

[spiderxjz82]

Yes... of course.

[frankie]

im sure foggys rally car has TB'S (well their old one did)

[DJVTR]

yes you can....

so why do people only have them on 16v?
if had newman ph's 3 cam breathing mods what gains could i see with tb and remap what bhp roughly? :y:

[vtr_chris90]

if you going to look at bodies, you could always look at the ph4 newmans cam, but i am unsure as to wether you would need forged internals i cant remember unless i have a look lol i think you may just be able to get away with it, sandy mentioned it over on rallyereg the other week i think

but with the ph4 and bodies, you could probs see 150bhp at most i think, but its just a rough guess lol

as for the 16v part, alot of people use 16v as you can get more power from it, from all the money you spend on the tbs, you pay the little extra for the engine and the get 30bhp more, as most people tend to see 180 to 190bhp i think with a good set up

but its alot of money mate your probs looking at 3.5k plus i think, even for 8v it will be a similar price

hope this helps

[DJVTR]

if you going to look at bodies, you could always look at the ph4 newmans cam, but i am unsure as to wether you would need forged internals i cant remember unless i have a look lol i think you may just be able to get away with it, sandy mentioned it over on rallyereg the other week i think

but with the ph4 and bodies, you could probs see 150bhp at most i think, but its just a rough guess lol

as for the 16v part, alot of people use 16v as you can get more power from it, from all the money you spend on the tbs, you pay the little extra for the engine and the get 30bhp more, as most people tend to see 180 to 190bhp i think with a good set up

but its alot of money mate your probs looking at 3.5k plus i think, even for 8v it will be a similar price

hope this helps


so its definatly worth getting a 16v cus i wanna try and get to the 170 bhp mark ?

can i get throttle bodies befor newman ph's 4? and then run without a remap? then cam it and map it all at once ? :y:
and with breating mods what bhp roughly?

[AlexB]

im sure foggys rally car has TB'S (well their old one did)

indeed it does

bodied 8vs are all over the place if you look

[DJVTR]

so its definatly worth getting a 16v cus i wanna try and get to the 170 bhp mark ?

can i get throttle bodies befor newman ph's 4? and then run without a remap? then cam it and map it all at once ?
and with breating mods what bhp roughly?

[JamesR]

so its definatly worth getting a 16v cus i wanna try and get to the 170 bhp mark ?

can i get throttle bodies befor newman ph's 4? and then run without a remap? then cam it and map it all at once ?
and with breating mods what bhp roughly?

Would advise at least a remap, standalone would be better.

[Ge0_Ge]

it wont run without a remap i think ph3 is as far as u can go without a map. The bodies wont do shit all without the map either if im not mistaken? look at the predator ecu pal.. its pretty much the same price as a remap and it is free mapping after iirc..

Will need around 1500 for the TB kit 200 odd for the cam and then 500 for the predator.

[DJVTR]

Would advise at least a remap, standalone would be better.

another n00b question differance between remap and stand alone ? :y:

[DJVTR]

it wont run without a remap i think ph3 is as far as u can go without a map. The bodies wont do shit all without the map either if im not mistaken? look at the predator ecu pal.. its pretty much the same price as a remap and it is free mapping after iirc..

Will need around 1500 for the TB kit 200 odd for the cam and then 500 for the predator.

cool so the list i have so far...

vts conversion
throttle bodies
newman ph's4
preditor ecu
4-1 mani
de-cat
supersprint full exaust
maybe forged internals ( if needed .. hope not )

better get saving :) what is the predicted outcomb.. bhp ? ?
:y:

[AlexB]

for the remap comments you cant run bodies on the stanard ecu (for gouldy i wanna actually see a car done by wayne like this as i havent yet when i do ill edit this)

[andymiller_VTR]

another n00b question differance between remap and stand alone ? :y:

a remap is remapping the standard ecu where as a stand alone is a different ecu if im not mistaken ?

[Ryan]

170bhp is effectively a race engine on 8v.

Will require very lairy cams, forged internals etc etc.....

Everyone goes 16v because its a FAR better engine to get power out of.

[Ryan]

for the remap comments you cant run bodies on the stanard ecu (for gouldy i wanna actually see a car done by wayne like this as i havent yet when i do ill edit this)

Theres massive debate atm about how complex the map is using 'limp mode'

[Ryan]

and even on a 16v engine the wildest cams you can run on OE piston valve cut outs you may just struggle to hit 170, be between 160-165 in most cases

[AlexB]

Theres massive debate atm about how complex the map is using 'limp mode'

hence the brackets
i wanna see one up ad running and see what it does

[Ge0_Ge]

for the remap comments you cant run bodies on the stanard ecu (for gouldy i wanna actually see a car done by wayne like this as i havent yet when i do ill edit this)

id have only said stand alone if i hadnt had read that earier in the week lol..

but as ryan said.. 150 is achievable if u got deep pockets.

[DJVTR]

170bhp is effectively a race engine on 8v.

Will require very lairy cams, forged internals etc etc.....

Everyone goes 16v because its a FAR better engine to get power out of.


vts conversion
throttle bodies
newman ph's4
preditor ecu
4-1 mani
de-cat
supersprint full exaust
maybe forged internals ( if needed .. hope not )


i did say i would get a vts converion and could i get 170 if i had a vts engine ?

[DJVTR]

and even on a 16v engine the wildest cams you can run on OE piston valve cut outs you may just struggle to hit 170, be between 160-165 in most cases

sorry posted befor i saw your post :y: would it be gd idea to uprate internals just so it dosnt break lol ? how much it that?

[Ryan]

so its definatly worth getting a 16v cus i wanna try and get to the 170 bhp mark ?


My comment was referring to this, explaining that you can get 170 on an 8v but that its not economical

vts conversion
throttle bodies
newman ph's4
preditor ecu
4-1 mani
de-cat
supersprint full exaust
maybe forged internals ( if needed .. hope not )


If ph4s are much wilder than 708s you need to machine the pistons/get forgies.

[Ge0_Ge]

if your looking at internals look at ryans engine ... hes spend way over 10K on that thing...

[Ryan]

sorry posted befor i saw your post :y: would it be gd idea to uprate internals just so it dosnt break lol ? how much it that?

Uprated internals?

For example a full engine build on mine was over 4k for bottom end and head, inc cams, solid lifters, forged pistons, uprated rods etc...

It aint cheap

[Ryan]

if your looking at internals look at ryans engine ... hes spend way over 10K on that thing...

Thankfully I didnt, i bought it complete so didnt get the bill i was going to get from building similar spec on my other engine.

[Ge0_Ge]

yeah i know.. but it was easier than typing the full story lol..

[DJVTR]

to get to the 170 mark would it be cheaper turboing ?

[JamesR]

Thankfully I didnt, i bought it complete so didnt get the bill i was going to get from building similar spec on my other engine.

I would have just took the credit lol ;)

[Ryan]

to get to the 170 mark would it be cheaper turboing ?

Cheap Low boost conversion if you get parts cheap etc...

To get 170bhp no way is cheap

[Ryan]

I owuld have just took the credit lol ;)

Why you just look more stupid when people know?

I am not bothered that I saved myself several K, I mean I bought the engine for less than rebuiding my bottom end and head was gonna cost me, I sold my TBs, ecu, exhaust etc... and its not cost me more than my old engine did ;)

[DJVTR]

thanks everyone big help :y:

one more thing is this any good ?
http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?p=VTRPWRPACK9&a=i <---------- not that one

http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?p=VTSPWRPACK3&a=i <------------- this one ist for a vts ads 45 bhp aperantly befor a rrmap?

[Ge0_Ge]

im in the same decision mind set mate... its either go all out on the 8v and then be happy, but then maybe want more.. then start over again on a valver lol.

[Ryan]

thanks everyone big help :y:

one more thing is this any good ?
http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?p=VTRPWRPACK9&a=i

Id personally buy things individually, so you dont have the BMC etc....

Plus with group buys on newmans cams going on often you can get them cheap

[Ryan]

im in the same decision mind set mate... its either go all out on the 8v and then be happy, but then maybe want more.. then start over again on a valver lol.

bin the turd. Its a shame mines fucked, im sure if you came out in it you would be ripping the 8v out withint days

[Ge0_Ge]

hmm.. would love to passenger in yours.. i cant seem to find a single plug in my area :( id travel a lil way..

[DJVTR]

bin the turd. Its a shame mines fucked, im sure if you came out in it you would be ripping the 8v out withint days


is that an invite lol. i would love to own a vts with as much power as yours must me so much fun when chavs think ther good in there corsas lol

[Ryan]

Im more than happy for anyone to come out as a passenger when its working again.

Ive not had anyone get out dissapointed yet, and thats including a few shedders at a RR day, and several people on different track days.

just pissed off its a bit rogered atm

[Spanky]

Ive recently been told that it would not be worth TB my VTR as the trumpets would sit in the bay behind the scuttle panel not doing much, then if you cut the scuttle panel away, its where the wipers flop about so water would get it :wacko:

Obviously i thought this would be risky etc etc can anyone shed any light on this

[Ryan]

hmm.. would love to passenger in yours.. i cant seem to find a single plug in my area :( id travel a lil way..

I managed to get a single plug loom recently thankfully ;)

Can allways buy a three plug engine, and just track down a single plug loom. Or see if someone can make a loom for you *not cheap mind*

[Ryan]

Ive recently been told that it would not be worth TB my VTR as the trumpets would sit in the bay behind the scuttle panel not doing much, then if you cut the scuttle panel away, its where the wipers flop about so water would get it :wacko:

Obviously i thought this would be risky etc etc can anyone shed any light on this

Bullshit tbh.

How will rain get in any more than when you drive it normally? You are sucking in air which will have moisture in either way. I drove mine on track in the rain caning it to 8.5k and didnt have pools of water going in the car. Mines 16v but I have a long inlet tract.

[JamesR]

Why you just look more stupid when people know?

I am not bothered that I saved myself several K, I mean I bought the engine for less than rebuiding my bottom end and head was gonna cost me, I sold my TBs, ecu, exhaust etc... and its not cost me more than my old engine did ;)

Twas a joke, hence the ;) after it. :D

[Ge0_Ge]

i know.. and wires really confuse me so i would have to get it made up.. if im honest the whole thing confuses me slightly.. if u see any for sale shout me.

[Ryan]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/itsafastworld85/IMG_2051.jpg

No scuttle and I dont have issues. You just put a cover on at night.

[Ryan]

i know.. and wires really confuse me so i would have to get it made up.. if im honest the whole thing confuses me slightly.. if u see any for sale shout me.

kk will do.

[Ryan]

and an 8v without scuttle cut
http://www.106rallyeforum.com/gallery/data//505/medium/IMG_2203.jpg

[Ge0_Ge]

whos 8v is that ryan, progress thread?

[Ryan]

no progress thread but where i got pic from
http://www.106rallyeforum.com/gallery//showphoto.php?photo=3775

[Spanky]

and an 8v without scuttle cut
http://www.106rallyeforum.com/gallery/data//505/medium/IMG_2203.jpg

And you would see ok gains from that im presuming??

Wouldnt that suck hot air?? or would bonnet raisers solve that a little??

Also is that a bike boddies setup or a proper TB setup for a saxo??

if you no...

if i was going to do it i would not want the scuttle pannel cut tbh

[Ryan]

Its GSXR bodies going on the photo information.

Its perfectly fine to run bodies with the scuttle there, the gains you get are from getting equal airflow in each cylinder *preventing scavging of certain cylinders if running wild cams* which you get on a single TB/inlet manifold set up.

[JamesR]

Its GSXR bodies going on the photo information.

Its perfectly fine to run bodies with the scuttle there, the gains you get are from getting equal airflow in each cylinder *preventing scavging of certain cylinders if running wild cams* which you get on a single TB/inlet manifold set up.

Ryan you really are a god arnt you. :panic:

[Spanky]

Its GSXR bodies going on the photo information.

Its perfectly fine to run bodies with the scuttle there, the gains you get are from getting equal airflow in each cylinder *preventing scavging of certain cylinders if running wild cams* which you get on a single TB/inlet manifold set up.

right i see.

Now im waiting to hear back on what the crack is with Wayne@chipwizards about mapping the OE Ecu for boddies but i am seriously considering this.

Now of corse cams are also part of it.

Would you see any gains doing it on standard cams? or are PH3's for example a must??

[Ryan]

Ryan you really are a god arnt you. :panic:

Nope I have a fuck load I still need to learn. Just running bodies I did a fair bit of research before I went and spunked a load of cash *to be cool and get bodies because everyone said to*

[Ryan]

right i see.

Now im waiting to hear back on what the crack is with Wayne@chipwizards about mapping the OE Ecu for boddies but i am seriously considering this.

Now of corse cams are also part of it.

Would you see any gains doing it on standard cams? or are PH3's for example a must??

OE cams = have had proven gains mostly just midrange/torque. I personally dont see a point in a cheap TB set up myself mind, if you want to do it do it properly and get the biggest gains you can.

[JamesR]

Nope I have a fuck load I still need to learn. Just running bodies I did a fair bit of research before I went and spunked a load of cash *to be cool and get bodies because everyone said to*

Compared with most you know an awful lot from what i have read on here. BTW your bodies looks sexual :flush:

[Ge0_Ge]

some people can get them to work pretty well tho.. for the cost i see your point...

[Spanky]

OE cams = have had proven gains mostly just midrange/torque. I personally dont see a point in a cheap TB set up myself mind, if you want to do it do it properly and get the biggest gains you can.

Oh im not going to do everything cheapo but i cant afford to go all out on everything.

I was thinking maybe doing ti with the OE cam OR doing it with a PH3

I was budgeting myself maybe 1-1.5k does that sound about right??

Thats cam, bike bodes, inlet mani and remap etc..

[Ryan]

some people can get them to work pretty well tho.. for the cost i see your point...

And alot end up running utter shit. Mostly due to poor inlet manifold design/attaching bodies with hoses etc...

Bike bodies I belive it was dave walker who wrote commenting on how many people have made bodge jobs of adapting the throttle linkages to work on the cars.

I just think if you are prepaired to spend money on bodies + mapping or + ecu and mapping, adding in wild cams and even pistons isnt alot in the grand sceme for the power increase.

[JamesR]

Was reading a thread a while back when i joined. What are the problems with running boost and TBs?

[Ryan]

Was reading a thread a while back when i joined. What are the problems with running boost and TBs?

ususally its the design of the plenum is a massive issue, or getting the size of the butterflys right, TBs give very reactive throttle response so large butterflys + boost can make it difficult to drive on part throttle (eg town driving).

[JamesR]

ususally its the design of the plenum is a massive issue, or getting the size of the butterflys right, TBs give very reactive throttle response so large butterflys + boost can make it difficult to drive on part throttle (eg town driving).

Suppose it would be OK for a track car though?

Anyone on here achieved it? What are the gains like?

[Ryan]

Suppose it would be OK for a track car though?

Anyone on here achieved it? What are the gains like?

Sybez *not on here* had a yellow 106 gti with supercharger and bodies, it made reasonable power but was allways fucked, and as he said was hard to drive due to the bodies. In the end he split it and sold up.

I know of 1/2 who are doing it a bit differently atm though. GMC can do it, companies like carworx/compressedfruitinajarsport couldnt at the time it seems :P

[KamRacing]

i think it was hard to drive for other reasons. throttlebodies on a turbo engine should give better throttle response, but it was not built right.

[Ryan]

i think it was hard to drive for other reasons. throttlebodies on a turbo engine should give better throttle response, but it was not built right.

His were 45mm butterflys iirc. We know it was fucked up when it was first built, but other things happened aswell. Sy/Danny both feel the oversized butterflys were a big issue

[DA13]

in terms of the gsxr bike bodies from colin and sandy, do they fabricate an inlet manifold for both the different type of inlet port spacings?:wacko:

because every picture/progress i have seen of there setup on the 8v has been on the blacktop engine and i have the silvertop 3-plug. cheers for any help dudes:y:

[Ryan]

I dont think they do them for 98bhp engines, as they are not used in rallyes and they build more for rallye owners and not vtr owners :P

[KamRacing]

Colin might have made a jig for a later engine. I'm down there building a sequential box with him next week so I can get some details if people want.

Kev

[DA13]

yeah that would be really helpful, cheers:y: