Standard VTR performance [Archive] - Saxperience

captainroll

5th May 2009, 16:47

Hello, I have come to this site in the hope of settling a debate i have been having with somebody about the performance of the citreon saxo vtr. Before i begin i want to make it clear i have nothing against saxo's and actually think that they are fun little cars so im not here to ruffle feathers.

These are the claims i am refuting and basically i just want your take on them, if enough owners agree with them then i will leave it at that:

-Saxo vtr mark 2 is a lot faster than a mark 1
-Vtr (mark 2) top speed is 132mph
-Vts top speed is 140mph+
-a mark 2 vtr will keep neck and neck with a clio sport upto 65mph (the other guy also claimed higher with him as the driver, but this was the general claim)

There were other things we disagreed on (i said the vtr was only a warm hatch (VTS is the hot hatch), whilst he maintains it is a hot hatch and should be compared to CTR's and Clio sports etc etc) but this is more subjective.

Cheers, captainroll.

Rez

5th May 2009, 16:52

Wow! talk about throwing a smoke bomb in a Wasp's nest. I'm going to have another :drink: and wait this one out.

MiniGibbo

5th May 2009, 16:54

Nah thats basicully all bollocks

Theres 10hp between phase one and two which isnt noticable.
Vtr's wont keep with 172/182's fettled vts's do.
Vtr does 120 with a very long road.
Vts does around 125 pushing 127 with an even longer road.

Anything else.?

Matt.

PETE-VTR

5th May 2009, 16:55

got to love the n00b questions tbh....

Tony

5th May 2009, 16:55

1, No, both roughly the same.
2, No, I dont think so but am not 100%.
3, I dont know this one but would be surprised if it was.
4, The 0-60 times should show this wouldn't be the case.

The VTR is a fun hatch but not exactly hot. It has half the power of a CTR.

captainroll

5th May 2009, 17:03

Thanks :)

It's not so much a noob question as i was just trying to stop somebody making such inflated claims by showing him that even fellow owners do not agree with him.

Its causing a ridiculous thread over on another site with one guy making these claims and a lot of people replying. Trouble is that some of the other people are almost as bad the other way, so i thought this would be a good way of getting a reasoned opinion from other owners, particularly enthusiasts.

Nice forum by the way.

Cheers, captainroll

Tony

5th May 2009, 17:07

Lol, what forum is this on?

It sounds like someone is suffering from the famous VTR attitude.

I removed the fogs from mine to prevent me from catching it lol.

rey

5th May 2009, 17:07

link to said forum?

and they do more than 120, not sure the exact speed, but the do over 120 as was proven by my brother when he was caught speeding...

camTcar

5th May 2009, 17:09

vts=hottest hatch of the 90's
vtr=not far behind

don55

5th May 2009, 17:10

nicely constructed posts captainroll, not the usual and i commend your efforts.

clios and CTR are in a different league from any saxo, a stock one of course.

captainroll

5th May 2009, 17:10

Just that 'carsurvey.org' one. It doesnt tell you who posted what though, so it means that anyone who argues with him looks like they immediately hate the saxo, which is not the case.

Funny you should mention the fogs as he did actually say something about front fogs being a major factor for having the car :fcuk:

Cheers, captainroll

Tony

5th May 2009, 17:13

vts=hottest hatch of the 90's
vtr=not far behind

Hmm...

Williams, 106 GTi?

Can 'O Worms tbh and will always be based on individual opinion.

camTcar

5th May 2009, 17:14

Hmm...

Williams, 106 GTi?

Can 'O Worms tbh and will always be based on individual opinion.

hmmm true mate

Mr_P

5th May 2009, 17:15

-Saxo vtr mark 2 is a lot faster than a mark 1
-Vtr (mark 2) top speed is 132mph
-Vts top speed is 140mph+
-a mark 2 vtr will keep neck and neck with a clio sport upto 65mph (the other guy also claimed higher with him as the driver, but this was the general claim)

-Not noticably quicker
-Fucking LOL'z
-Not fucking standard it ain't
-Possibly if the VTR is being ragged to death and the clio sport is being driven by my gran the way she likes to drive... SLLOOOWWWLLLYYYY.

Tony

5th May 2009, 17:23

It has kind of been answered.

And you got the last one wrong.

mischief

5th May 2009, 18:23

i think your find when you talk about hot hatch's its the look of the car not refering to the power

basically all french hatch backs are hot hatch's in my opinion :y:

spiderxjz82

5th May 2009, 18:32

i think your find when you talk about hot hatch's its the look of the car not refering to the power

basically all french hatch backs are hot hatch's in my opinion :y:

My 206, is definately, NOT a hot hatch :P

mischief

5th May 2009, 18:35

My 206, is definately, NOT a hot hatch :P

ok true the 206 is pug ugly :p

stinkycheese

5th May 2009, 18:37

AdskiVTR

5th May 2009, 18:39

ok true the 206 is pug ugly :p
http://dennisjudd.com/albums/funpics/fry.sized.jpg

spiderxjz82

5th May 2009, 18:57

Hah, yes indeed. They're not so bad, better than equivalent year corsa's or polo's and such.

liam-o

5th May 2009, 19:13

some mk2 vtrs are at the lower 90bhp aswell...

gouldy87

5th May 2009, 19:45

vts=hottest hatch of the 90's
vtr=not far behind

we all love saxos but thats not true now is it?

vtrmike

5th May 2009, 22:56

lol sound like we all believe in our motor

vtrmike

5th May 2009, 22:57

i do mine runs on red bull does 3.0 williams lol

captainroll

6th May 2009, 17:03

Unfortunately this thread seems to have solved nothing so far. The owner has used some of the optimistic claims made in the 'how fast can yours go' thread to argue that his claims are completely reasonable.

Those who disagreed in this thread and said he is making false claims are labelled as mark one owners who are jealous. Thankyou for your views and opinions though.

Cheers, captainroll

camTcar

6th May 2009, 17:06

we all love saxos but thats not true now is it?
the vts wass definatly up there with a few others, and when i say hot i dont mean just the speed, it was cheap, cheerful, full of potential imo

Jaytee

6th May 2009, 17:15

im a mark 2 vtr owner and its all bollocks lol,

rey

6th May 2009, 17:19

there is no difference whatsoever between the performance of a mk1 and mk2... what a poon tang

liam-o

6th May 2009, 22:57

i wouldnt say no difference whatsoever but so marginal that its not really worth mentioning, apart from mk2's looking better 8-)

rey

6th May 2009, 23:00

there is no difference, and thats a matter of opinion lol...

tbh I think mk1's look more agressive

Karl

6th May 2009, 23:03

Only just seen this.
VTR super car killer,
Clio sport? no problem-o.

rey

6th May 2009, 23:05

karl you know that lambo on track at lydden, my R, woulda smashed him if i was on track ;)

rossfisher89

6th May 2009, 23:07

Lol, what forum is this on?

It sounds like someone is suffering from the famous VTR attitude.

I removed the fogs from mine to prevent me from catching it lol.

I have a friend who claims his vtr runs at 120 bhp, and its shamelessly close to standard.

and i also agree the vts has to be the hottest hatch of the 90's, the vtr is quite a way outside the top 5 imo.

also i disagree its a good site, its a great site! nice to hear opinions of so many saxo enthusiasts i have learnt alot about the car since joining.

Karl

6th May 2009, 23:10

karl you know that lambo on track at lydden, my R, woulda smashed him if i was on track ;)

obviously its quicker in a straight line,
but the Saxo would have it in the twisties......:homme:

Karl

6th May 2009, 23:12

I have a friend who claims his vtr runs at 120 bhp, and its shamelessly close to standard.

and i also agree the vts has to be the hottest hatch of the 90's, the vtr is quite a way outside the top 5 imo.

also i disagree its a good site, its a great site! nice to hear opinions of so many saxo enthusiasts i have learnt alot about the car since joining.

a VTR cannot be considered a hot hatch, if there is the same model car but a fair bit quicker,
its like saying the Zetec S is a hot hatch, when there is an ST model which is miles quicker...

as for hatch of the 90's.

Williams > VTS.

Roasthunter

6th May 2009, 23:15

Back in 1998 I hit about 120mph in my VTR, wouldn't go much faster than that. It's a black top Mk1 and still have it today.

Roll on to 2009 and I took it to a track day at Snetterton. Early on in the sessions I was faster than a tuned VTS which I put down to more experience. Had a few car issues later in the day which curtailed it but without a doubt the VTS was the faster car and pulled away in a straight line and once the younger guy gained a bit more experience and confidence but it wasn't as much as you'd think.

The Clio 172/182 at the circuit were considerably quicker and while you might keep relatively close from 0-60 it's going to kick your ass over any distance or on a track, I remember moving out the way of one which was all over my arse and had no problem pulling away.

All in all the VTR was at the bottom of the pack with the likes of MX5, the VTS was definately a bit quicker but not in the same league as the clio and not a patch on things like Civic Type-R, Scooby, Evo, Elise etc. The Saxo is a relatively slow car by modern standards but it's very fun to drive and ok in the corners.

Ferg

6th May 2009, 23:20

I'm sorry but VTR's are slow, comparing them to a Cliosport is just LOL ... Drive a VTS and you'll soon realise this.

TBF I'm not sure i'd even call a VTS a hot hatch these days. In the 1990's maybe ...

Also CTR's are over rated. Lovely cars and i'd have one over my VTS in the blink of an eye but on track the differences between one and an S with a half decent driver isn't alot. I've passed and been stuck behind a few myself now. Although straight line speed there certainly do have that bit of extra grunt.

rey

6th May 2009, 23:21

obviously its quicker in a straight line,
but the Saxo would have it in the twisties......:homme:

hrmm, I dunno, I was told by a mate, whos brothers sister, has an uncle thats an ex racer that died twice in a crash, that a VTR is mental mental fast... :homme:

rossfisher89

6th May 2009, 23:24

a VTR cannot be considered a hot hatch, if there is the same model car but a fair bit quicker,
its like saying the Zetec S is a hot hatch, when there is an ST model which is miles quicker...

as for hatch of the 90's.

Williams > VTS.

ok williams and vts is debatable.

i never said vtr was a hot hatch mate, i personally dont think they are it's like a porsche boxster in comparison to a carrera just ask urself y buy a vtr?

Roasthunter

6th May 2009, 23:27

ok williams and vts is debatable.

i never said vtr was a hot hatch mate, i personally dont think they are it's like a porsche boxster in comparison to a carrera just ask urself y buy a vtr?

Doesn't a Clio williams have 150bhp vs 120bhp from the Saxo? So is likely to bit a little bit quicker but is probably carrying more weight, esp up front.

rey

6th May 2009, 23:28

just ask urself y buy a vtr?

eh? why buy a VTR?

Plenty of reasons why, different people want different things, for example, I didnt want to be arse raped (minus lube) by getting a VTS for my first car, so got an R.

It does everything I need it to do, except for break alot, that I could do without... Still, just because it's not the God Almighty VTS, there's nothing to say its any worse than any other saxo.. Has the same, shitty stereotyped image attached, has the same reliability issues, same car minus 8v's essentially

Ferg

6th May 2009, 23:30

Correct Rey ... Half an engine ;)

rey

6th May 2009, 23:32

Correct Rey ... Half an engine ;)

ahh but the same handling characteristics... tbh I don't care about having 8v's, I love my car, when it works ;), and its nippy enough for me right now lol cant afford to run anything better/faster :(

rossfisher89

6th May 2009, 23:33

eh? why buy a VTR?

Plenty of reasons why, different people want different things, for example, I didnt want to be arse raped (minus lube) by getting a VTS for my first car, so got an R.

It does everything I need it to do, except for break alot, that I could do without... Still, just because it's not the God Almighty VTS, there's nothing to say its any worse than any other saxo.. Has the same, shitty stereotyped image attached, has the same reliability issues, same car minus 8v's essentially

lol didnt mean to offend anyone, what i meant by it was if performance is key to you why buy a vtr? if you just like look and happy with 90 bhp then it's wise to as you save a shit load on insurance.

rey

6th May 2009, 23:36

lol didnt mean to offend anyone, what i meant by it was if performance is key to you why buy a vtr? if you just like look and happy with 90 bhp then it's wise to as you save a shit load on insurance.

108 on mine according to AMD's rollers ;)

and if performance was key to me, personally a saxo would not be on my list of cars to have lol

rossfisher89

6th May 2009, 23:39

lol same mate, they are good for what they are, 120 break from a 1.6 isn't bad at only around 850 kgs? but being honest most of us would be in lotus exige's if we had the cash lol.

rey

6th May 2009, 23:41

lol same mate, they are good for what they are, 120 break from a 1.6 isn't bad at only around 850 kgs? but being honest most of us would be in lotus exige's if we had the cash lol.

935kg standard VTS weight
920kg standard VTR weight

me personally, I'd have a Caterham R500 :afro:

Roasthunter

6th May 2009, 23:45

935kg standard VTS weight
920kg standard VTR weight

me personally, I'd have a Caterham R500 :afro:

Is that dry weight? Add a few gallons of fuel, a couple of fat blokes and a few tinnies in the boot and you're screwed!

benji1man

6th May 2009, 23:47

dont no about other vts owners but i've had my vts 140mph yet to redline, pretty standard.

rossfisher89

6th May 2009, 23:51

yeah i never had that long of a run tbh, got to 130 pretty quick slowed from there, wasn't redlining but seemed pretty close. was approaching petrol station which police sit at sometimes so eased off alot, will test again with longer run next time i'm out late with v clear road. 935 kg 0.o dissapointed tbh lol, *gets out spanner and starts stripping* lol

captainroll

7th May 2009, 13:17

dont no about other vts owners but i've had my vts 140mph yet to redline, pretty standard.

Was that speedo indicated though? I don't doubt the speedo may have said it but the claim was made that actual speeds of above 140mph were possible with a VTS which is what i very much doubt (can't see manufacturers figures being that far out).

The VTR 132mph was claimed as being indicated on a Sat Nav which (to quote him) 'is 100% accurate' and again i do not believe that was true. How would a standard vtr get 5mph more than the VTS' top speed with 22bhp or so less?

Im pretty much certain i found the guy i was disputing this with on this forum as well now by reading through old posts, but he has yet to comment on this thread.

My take on 'hot hatch' was the same as someone else said i.e. the vtr is not a hot hatch if the vts is also in the range, it makes it a warm hatch. As i said before though that is a matter of opinion, its the overblown claims i wanted to sort out.

Cheers, captainroll