View Full Version : throttle bodies or bike carbs
Waynerenton
6th May 2009, 21:44
which is the best to go for? and will i have to change the ecu or can you use the standard ecu?
Throttle bodies = Injection which is ALOT more advanced than carb tuning, hence why all car manufacturers use injection over carb tuning these days.
Also carbs - good luck getting it through an mot.
You really want to get an aftermarket ECU, theres still alot of debate and scepticism over someone currently 'mapping' OE ecus in limp mode.
Finchowned
6th May 2009, 22:01
Tbh dude if you're gonna chase decent power you may as well do things properly and not cut corners.
Go for thorttle bodies and some decent stand alone management and get it all set up by a reputable garage/tuner and you'll be laughing.
If you cant afford it, don't venture down that route or save up till you can.
/2p
Roasthunter
6th May 2009, 23:30
Forget carbs, imagine swapping lots of expensive jets trying to gain extra power, playing with float levels, chasing flat spots, having to down the fuel pressure etc all for less power. Fully mappable ECU and decent tech to do the work for you. Probably be looking at £2k to do it right.
Sparco_Tom
6th May 2009, 23:49
in my experiences with carbs on vdubs and bodies on the saxos throttle bodies are head and shoulders above. they will run rough on standard management but standalone ecu will soon sort that out
williamsvts
7th May 2009, 08:25
can run carbs with standard ecu, and bike carbs still get good results on vauxhall XE engines.
bodies will be better though.
Roasthunter
7th May 2009, 08:30
can run carbs with standard ecu, and bike carbs still get good results on vauxhall XE engines.
bodies will be better though.
Presume you'd need a custom inlet made up to fit carbs. Carbs just seems a bit of a backward step to me.
williamsvts
7th May 2009, 08:32
yeah, would be easy to make 1 up though.
KamRacing
7th May 2009, 13:28
throttlebodies will give you a bigger increase in power across the whole rev range.
Kev
CampDavid
7th May 2009, 13:29
Do we actually know that ECUs are mapped in limp mode? As far as I'm aware they are not
Do we actually know that ECUs are mapped in limp mode? As far as I'm aware they are not
Going on the information posted by someone who had managed to discuss it with wayne then thats a yes. Although when williams asked to discuss it funily enough wayne was to busy on sveral days to answer any of marcs questions.
why does everyone call them bike carbs, when 90% of the time they are talking about bodies
williamsvts
7th May 2009, 15:12
Going on the information posted by someone who had managed to discuss it with wayne then thats a yes. Although when williams asked to discuss it funily enough wayne was to busy on sveral days to answer any of marcs questions.
i tried calling twice, at a time that was apparantly good for wayne, and he didnt have time to give me any information at all about it.
Waynerenton
7th May 2009, 16:27
thanks for the advice lads, am going to go with throttle bodies. hopefully have them fitted and set up in the next month or so, depending when the garage can fit me in. will get a progress thread up soon to let u all know how its went. going to go 4 a Jenvey 42mm throttle body kit and Emmerald K3 ECU
Have fun getting the K3 wired in, very good bit of kit mind, I need to get my emerald upgraded to the K3 as I belive mine is one of the late run old ecus which can be.
GroomGTI
7th May 2009, 17:16
all the speculation abouts throttle bodies on a standard ecu will end on the 26th of this month. Off down on the 26th wi a mate for it doing!
blackie_2k5
7th May 2009, 17:44
look forward to hearing about it
all the speculation abouts throttle bodies on a standard ecu will end on the 26th of this month. Off down on the 26th wi a mate for it doing!
Its been done, the speculation is HOW the map is being done, and if the complexity of the map is being sacraficed using the OE ecu.
all the speculation abouts throttle bodies on a standard ecu will end on the 26th of this month. Off down on the 26th wi a mate for it doing!
go on lad. proud of you
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 19:26
Its been done, the speculation is HOW the map is being done, and if the complexity of the map is being sacraficed using the OE ecu.
i was one of the people who ran bodies on a mapped standard ecu for a while. waste of time tbh. fucked my bottom end though bore was is a horrible thing
i was one of the people who ran bodies on a mapped standard ecu for a while. waste of time tbh. fucked my bottom end though bore was is a horrible thing
so yours was one of the 4 cars people said wayne did on OE ecu? interesting.
GroomGTI
7th May 2009, 20:42
go on lad. proud of you
not me getting it done lol.
KamRacing
7th May 2009, 21:22
I'd love to know how many mapping points there are on the standard ecu. The more expensive the ecu the more mapping points there are, giving a more accurate engine map.
I'd love to know how many mapping points there are on the standard ecu. The more expensive the ecu the more mapping points there are, giving a more accurate engine map.
Or how many are sacraficed (if they are) in order to get it to run when no Map sensor is present.
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 22:16
sorry ryan wayne had nothing to do with mine, i had a friend of mine fiddle with the standard ecu to allow it to run and be driveable i will try find the video of it on standard ecu
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 22:18
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x109/sparco_tom/th_V101108_2012.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x109/sparco_tom/?action=view¤t=V101108_2012.flv)
That really doesnt sound healthy on tick over :O
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 22:25
idle was horrible with ph4 newman cams, 1400rpm idle :( but it went alright high up the revs. it just over fueled horrificly.
then thank the lord i got the emerald to run it
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 22:33
was using the k3, until water got in and wrote it off :( sent it back to dave and he said there wasnt much he could do
was using the k3, until water got in and wrote it off :( sent it back to dave and he said there wasnt much he could do
Think the same thing might have happend with my M3D tbh, as its not weather sealed and had been fitted in the bay.
What happened when the ecu shat itself? Mine (although potentially more loom) would struggle to start or when it did would misfire like a bitch!
Did dave not offer a replacement board?
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 22:43
was a second hand k3 which had been pulled apart apparently. well i know it had been apart and a few fit had to be re soldered onto the board.
like you say mine wasnt water sealed in the bay aswell and one day no life from anything picked the ecu up and it was filled with water. there were no warning signs or problems but the car had been standing for 2months without attention
Did you not have it plugged into a laptop when it was running ryan?
Would have been interesting to see the live readings on idle.
Are you running a wideband lambda?
Them bodies sound shockingly unbalanced btw
Sparco_Tom
7th May 2009, 22:50
they were indeed i want them back sold them to dannyvts08 would be interested to find out if he still has them
Did you not have it plugged into a laptop when it was running ryan?
Would have been interesting to see the live readings on idle.
Are you running a wideband lambda?
Them bodies sound shockingly unbalanced btw
Yes we have run the laptop, it reads WOT when the throttle was not being touched, plus a few other random readings, we ran a K3 and it just set the cooling fan off, which is why we are mostly thinking loom, although taking the M3D appart showed what we feel could also be some water damage.
Car ran sweet as a nut but we forogt to take the ecu off when it snowed, its not run since the snow.
No we are not running a wideband, The car wont run long enough if at all to have any readings with the engine running lol
Thats a bit of a shitter.
Probably worth while getting it to sent to Karl@emerald and see what he can do, may aswell get it upgraded too while your there.
Thats a bit of a shitter.
Probably worth while getting it to sent to Karl@emerald and see what he can do, may aswell get it upgraded too while your there.
Its one of the latter ones i believe so was going to K3 it when dave remapped it.
It was due for mapping and shat itself the day before It was due to go lol!
We are rewiring the entire engine/car and seeing if we can run a different PnP ecu to check that the car can deffo run and then work on the ecu side of things to see if its also fucked.
Waynerenton
8th May 2009, 15:23
Have fun getting the K3 wired in, very good bit of kit mind, I need to get my emerald upgraded to the K3 as I belive mine is one of the late run old ecus which can be.
take it its a bit hard to fit? a was looking thru the net and found a place called hiflow heads, they sell the jenvey throttle body kit with the k3 ecu for £1700 and will fit it for £550, that a good deal or expensive?
£550 isnt to bad for fitting, you can prob get it closer if you look around.
its not plug and play, which is why im getting an adaptor loom made up for mine so then I can switch ecus if I want
williamsvts
8th May 2009, 16:31
idle was horrible with ph4 newman cams, 1400rpm idle :( but it went alright high up the revs. it just over fueled horrificly.
then thank the lord i got the emerald to run it
did you run the ph4s on standard pistons?
Waynerenton
8th May 2009, 17:15
£550 isnt to bad for fitting, you can prob get it closer if you look around.
its not plug and play, which is why im getting an adaptor loom made up for mine so then I can switch ecus if I want
awrite a see. they say on the site when you buy the kit you get a throttle bodie loom, is that the adaptor loom that you are on about?there pretty close 2 where a live, only about 35/40 miles away heres a link to the price list on their site
http://www.hiflowheads.co.uk/performance/vts.pdf
might be a hardwire.
So cut the plug off the OE loom and hardwire it in. Hopefully should get mine working with an adaptor loom using a fresh ECU plug from emerald.
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