Rallycross engine

[janssonmotorsport]

Hi!

Im Mathias from Sweden, I have a Saxo vts.

We don't have any good citroén engine builders here in Sweden so I was thinking about ordering from UK

The class/group im going to compete in next year has the following regulations.

2150 cc, 8v, no turbo, 2wd, original injection or mikuni/weber carburators.

Next year we are also able to have 1,6 16v, We are able to bore cylinders 0,5-1 mm and change cams but we can't do so much on the cylinder head. Maby glass blast intake and exhaust. (Group N)

Right now 99 % drive with saab and volvo engines 2146 cc 8v and about 200-230 hp and a weight of 900 KG.

The gearbox have to fit to the body or engine so im able to put like a Honda engine in the saxo and use a honda or saxo gearbox.

Any good ideas/points ?
Any good companys/persons to talk to

Best regards / Mathias

[cj_99]

There is a company in the U.K called Zcars they mainly do motorbike engine conversions but they also do a kit for converting your engine to a honda type r engine. Dont know if any of this will help though

see here: http://www.zcars.org.uk/saxo/conversion.htm

you could also give them a ring to ask for more details etc :y:

[janssonmotorsport]

Tnx cj_99!

First choice would be a Saxo engine, but if the hp is to low i will look in to the Honda engine.

[Sparco_Tom]

5 grand would see you with a 200bhp+ N/A vts engine. with a 1.4xsi box with rebuilt diff you would be a serious contender

[janssonmotorsport]

Sparco_Tom > Any good companys ?

Engine management is free, so I can drive with Megasquirt (as a cheep example) so a Box might not be necessary...

[janssonmotorsport]

I have started to email with GMC motorsport, points?

[janssonmotorsport]

oooo you mean gearbox =) ha ha

Sparco_Tom > Any good companys ?

Engine management is free, so I can drive with Megasquirt (as a cheep example) so a Box might not be necessary...

[Sparco_Tom]

well www.kam-racing.co.uk for cams and such like

GMC motorsport

Q-E-P engineering may be of use

Quaife

[janssonmotorsport]

ok, perfect. tnx!

well www.kam-racing.co.uk for cams and such like

GMC motorsport

Q-E-P engineering may be of use

Quaife

[gd16]

There is a company in the U.K called Zcars they mainly do motorbike engine conversions but they also do a kit for converting your engine to a honda type r engine. Dont know if any of this will help though

see here: http://www.zcars.org.uk/saxo/conversion.htm

you could also give them a ring to ask for more details etc :y:


Don't see how a Type - R engine fits into this guys question???
Clearly he states he's restricted by regulations, and a Type R engine is neither a 2.0l 8v, or a 1.6l 16v.


GMC Motorsport, or Longmans (if the company still exists) would be the best place to ask. Best off to state the limitations/regulations - and the budget, and they'll be able to tell you whats possible/what power expectations you may see.


TBH - from what you've said, i think you'd struggle to be competative in the Saxo. Your saying the competition are about 200-230bhp and 900kg, and your also saying your limited to the amount of headwork allowed (no mention on if multiple throttle bodies are allowed). With the 1.6 16v engine, you'll struggle to get much more than 200bhp for a sensible cost. In addition to that, the power band will be very small - needing an expensive short-ratio gearbox. And again depending on regs, the weight of the car is not going to be that much less than 850kg.

[janssonmotorsport]

Iv'e been looking on quife dif and gearkits for about 1700 £.

if I choose the 8v cylinder head with a maximum cc of 2150 I can do whatever I whant to the cylinder head. If i choose the 16v it's restrictions to the cyl head in the intake and exhaust channels, and I can only drive with a 1600cc.

But if I use a standard "bottom" of 1600 cc and tries to get it to 2000cc the bore and stroke might not be so effective or nice for the engine?

Can I use a already 2000cc engine from another citroen modell and put like a Saxo 8v cylinder head on that one or is it compleatly rebuild with oil and water channels?

Don't see how a Type - R engine fits into this guys question???
Clearly he states he's restricted by regulations, and a Type R engine is neither a 2.0l 8v, or a 1.6l 16v.


GMC Motorsport, or Longmans (if the company still exists) would be the best place to ask. Best off to state the limitations/regulations - and the budget, and they'll be able to tell you whats possible/what power expectations you may see.


TBH - from what you've said, i think you'd struggle to be competative in the Saxo. Your saying the competition are about 200-230bhp and 900kg, and your also saying your limited to the amount of headwork allowed (no mention on if multiple throttle bodies are allowed). With the 1.6 16v engine, you'll struggle to get much more than 200bhp for a sensible cost. In addition to that, the power band will be very small - needing an expensive short-ratio gearbox. And again depending on regs, the weight of the car is not going to be that much less than 850kg.

[janssonmotorsport]

The weight should be around 760-780 on the saxo, if my plan works =)

Plastic kit everyware =)


TBH - from what you've said, i think you'd struggle to be competative in the Saxo. Your saying the competition are about 200-230bhp and 900kg, and your also saying your limited to the amount of headwork allowed (no mention on if multiple throttle bodies are allowed). With the 1.6 16v engine, you'll struggle to get much more than 200bhp for a sensible cost. In addition to that, the power band will be very small - needing an expensive short-ratio gearbox. And again depending on regs, the weight of the car is not going to be that much less than 850kg.

[janssonmotorsport]

+ that I get much better handling with coilovers. They are driving old Saab 900 with dampers and springs separate. and with this car i hope that I can use a much better tyre then all the others. (Back to regulations) =)

The weight should be around 760-780 on the saxo, if my plan works =)

Plastic kit everyware =)

[Ryan]

5 grand would see you with a 200bhp+ N/A vts engine. with a 1.4xsi box with rebuilt diff you would be a serious contender

5 grand? And the rest. A bottom end/head that will get you. Not the rest of the kit you need

[Dboyvts]

Would deff be having a long conversation with John @ gmc he will and has bout some very impressive engines for export for different race classes around the world.

http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21

[Dboyvts]

Would deff be having a long conversation with John @ gmc he will and has bout some very impressive engines for export for different race classes around the world.

http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21

[Spanky]

shame you cant view the for sale section, there is a super 1600 saxo engine for sale in there for 8k!!

forgot who is selling it now...

[Ryan]

lewis is selling it. Its a longmans engine, hes also got it on rallye reg.

[Spanky]

wish i had the money tbh as i would snap it up....

dont think he would want to send it to Sweden though ha

[Ryan]

wish i had the money tbh as i would snap it up....

dont think he would want to send it to Sweden though ha

chris (bic) sent his old engine overseas. If you are getting 6-7k i doubt he cares where it goes.

Id personally not pay that money for it when there are very similar spec engines (just tamer cams in most cases) going for 3-4k. The current economic climate is crap for sellers.

[Spanky]

chris (bic) sent his old engine overseas. If you are getting 6-7k i doubt he cares where it goes.

Id personally not pay that money for it when there are very similar spec engines (just tamer cams in most cases) going for 3-4k. The current economic climate is crap for sellers.

meh, i think a vts engine will do me.

i have an idea for a little toy, which shud not cost thw world to complete, and be fast at the same time.

karl out.. :P

[AXracing]

I have used GMCmotorsport in the past and been very happy with them. They produced my last 1360cc race engine. It proved unbeatable and raced in both track and sprint events. Give them a call and ask to talk to John. I will worn you though he is a very grumpy old man lol.

I would also recommend Richard Longman. He it world renowned as one of the best tuner for PSA engines. They were also know to be the best mini tuner of all time. Richard has been doing this for years and really knows his stuff. The produced engines for uk works Citroen and Pugs and also did a lot of touring cars and so forth.

Edit, Just fished out there numbers Richards is +44 (0) 1202 486569 Johns is +44 (0) 1671 403606

[Ryan]

Longmans ceased trading about a month ago though iirc. Rumour was financial reasons to sadly.

[AXracing]

Longmans ceased trading about a month ago though iirc. Rumour was financial reasons to sadly.

WOW that was unexpected. I would have thought the name would have carried on longer than he did. Yet another of the great tuner down the pan. :n:

[Ryan]

WOW that was unexpected. I would have thought the name would have carried on longer than he did. Yet another of the great tuner down the pan. :n:

Only speculation atm mind, although as we know richard tended to not deal with the public like most tuners, didnt have a flashy website etc.....

Although someone with a clio had their mapping cancelled, and a few people told him that the rumours were they pulled the plug finanically. As you know with forums though rumours are rumours and it could be Richard was ill and people just make up anything.

[Foggy]

We had our 1360 motor built by the guys at Withey Race Engines based in Bromsgrove, and after 3 years of abuse through the forest, I can honestly say that is as good if not better than when it was built :y:

150+ bhp from a 1360 8v and its reliable as well. The guys say that they could get more, but we edged on reliability rather that out and out power.

The website is HERE (http://www.withyengineering.com), but only shows the Mini engine grasstrack side of things....

Give the guys a ring as they were getting quite into the PSA engines when ours was done.... Worth the price of a call... :cool:

[cj_99]

Don't see how a Type - R engine fits into this guys question???
Clearly he states he's restricted by regulations, and a Type R engine is neither a 2.0l 8v, or a 1.6l 16v.

He said at the bottom of his first post honda engine didnt he i might be mistaken and i though that the ek9 engines were 1.6 16v although im probably wrong