supercharger or turbo???

[citroenaxgtr]

are there superchargers out there availible for the vtr grey top engine?... what would be best?. a super charger or a turbo?...

[RIBstaff]

search function



personally s/c due to no lag

[citroenaxgtr]

function?

[gafvts]

check search button top of page,or read simos thread about turbo and supercharger

[peebee]

Theres been at least a million threads about this topic lol

u should find what u need in past topics mate! smileys/smiley2.gif

[Ratty]

RIb what you talking about s/c has no lag?

T25 turbo 0-2k 0psi, 3k full boost ie 1bar 14.7 all the way to 7k.

supercharger 0-2k 0psi, 3k 2psi, 4k 5psi 5k 7psi, 6k 9psi etc etc

by this time the turbo is long gone, s/c is progressive but it takes MORE revs to get the boost, turbo is small wait then snap in power (although they are more expensive and tend to break things easier)

[RIBstaff]

i wasnt getting technical just a brief description

[arran]

turbo all the way!!!! smileys/smiley2.gif

[citroenaxgtr]

turbo it is then!............

[RIBstaff]

minds made up that quick smileys/smiley5.gif

[citroenaxgtr]

minds made up indeed.. seems alot less hassle to!
one more thing!... if i do put a turbo on is it essential to have a turbo charger?.

[Scott]

you seriously didnt just ask that?

turbo is short for turbo charger.

After that question and the intercooler one i urge you to do some serious reading before attempting it.

[Ratty]

you have a better chance of putting the vtr engine in your ax than fitting a turbo yourself smileys/smiley4.gif

[irishjohn]

turbo power all the way...lag can make things interesting ie. no power if u r off boost but when it comes in...Hold on tight. smileys/smiley4.gif

[citroenaxgtr]

oh dear it was late last night when i wrote that... i meant do i really need an intercooler for a turbo or can i do without?.

[Scott]

see your other post, still recommending you do some serious reading

[gafvts]

citroenaxgtr why does it seem alot less hassle to do a turbo conversion than supercharger

[RIBstaff]

lol scott is talking sense. a conversion does cost quite a bit and its not just a slap on job

[vinny315]

Personaly I would get supercharger as there is lag with turbos. smileys/smiley4.gif

[Sean]

Personaly I would get supercharger as there is lag with turbos. smileys/smiley4.gif

lag with 'chargers too. read ratty's first post explaining this smileys/smiley2.gif

[citroenaxgtr]

because with a super charger you need to find belts to drive the fooker and you need to have spare pullys to drive the fookers and you need to mount the fookers somewhere to!... i just want something i can weld into place and be done with it!... anyway you lot havent answered my question!... do i need an intercooler or can i do without one!... what are the problems if i dont?....

[starkie]

LMBO! © sax-p!

[Simo]

You dont NEED an intercooler, but you'd be wasting your time if you dont fit one.

When you compress air (using a turbo or supercharger) you squeeze a large volume of air into a smaller volume. Compression requires a lot of energy... the side effect of compressing something is that it generates heat! (you cant achieve isothermal compression)

An intercooler is used to cool the compressed air leaving the turbo/supercharger, before it enters the engine.

Cold air is denser than warm air - the 'air' occupies a smaller specific volume, so that MORE air can be packed into a given volume, when colder.

So, in simple terms, more air is good, but only when its cool! If you pressurised a shed load of air and didnt cool it inbetween the blower and the engine (intercooling), you'd need a higher pressure of air to achieve the same power from that of air at a lower pressure and temperature.

Lesson over, until the next question.... and BTW - read my FAQ regarding turbo's and superchargers.

[citroenaxgtr]

nice one mate i knew i`d get a proper answer soover or later

[boz]

if you are serious about getting a turbo or supercharger fitted mate, it will cost you a few quid.
there is no point skimping and doing it on the cheap (unless your 100% certain on what you are doing, not everyone is like ratty smileys/smiley2.gif smileys/smiley17.gif ) you need extra injectors and electronics etc to make it all run nice and smooth, then you need better brakes, clutch, engine mounts, suspension etc smileys/smiley2.gif smileys/smiley17.gif smileys/smiley4.gif

i was going to fit my turbo kit myself as i know a fair deal about cars, but its way beyond my league as all the electrics put me off smileys/smiley24.gif LOL
im getting it done professionally, will be worth it in the long run smileys/smiley4.gif

[boz]

to be honest, the supercharger is easier to fit as it runs of your fan belt, you dont need a manifold fabricated like you do for the turbo. i would not consider fitting either without an intercooler smileys/smiley5.gif smileys/smiley4.gif

the cold air from the intercooler is dencer and creates better combustion than hot air, im sure you get a greater volume from cold air to.

but if you fit a massive intercooler you will increase lag on the turbo.

super chargers work totally different to turbo chargers, the super charger compresses your inlet air and a turbo compresses your exhaust (outlet air) i think smileys/smiley5.gif LOL

superchargers seem to be a bit more reliable than turbos from what ive been told.

both can make your car really powerfull, but they put the power down different, supercharger is slighty progressive and constant, where as the turbo has a kick when it comes on boost.

i have never been in a supercharged or turbo sax so i carnt compaire the 2. not yet anyway smileys/smiley2.gif smileys/smiley17.gif smileys/smiley4.gif

[Simo]

Lag due to a large intercooler will not be noticable. The pressure will equalise through the intercooler almost instantly... and Im talking really quick smileys/smiley17.gif

You will get a slight pressure drop across the intercooler, but again this will be nothing to write home about.

The only supercharged saxo Ive been in is the GMC demo VTS. It was powerful, but felt a lot more reserved.

[Scott]

nice one mate i knew i`d get a proper answer soover or later

maybe if you had checked your actual intercooler thread from the other day you would have seen the answer a lot quicker smileys/smiley5.gif smileys/smiley2.gif

[citroenaxgtr]

i ask these questions just to reassure myself!..its better to here from others rather than just one person!

[gafvts]

boz you will soon be going in one smileys/smiley2.gif

[Frevo]

super chargers work totally different to turbo chargers, the super charger compresses your inlet air and a turbo compresses your exhaust (outlet air) i think

The Rotrex supercharger as used by GMC doesn't work that different.
To keep it simple:
A belt drives a turbine wheel that sucks in air and sends it to the throttle body under pressure.
A turbo does the same, but it not driven by a belt, but by another turbine wheel that rotated by exhaust gasses.

There are also other superchargers (Eaton, Roots, G-Lader) that work different.

[Ratty]

they both compress inlet air, id hate to have the exhaust gas (which is about 800degress btw sometimes more when you boot it, charged cars can go over 1000degrees.) and i hate it when my charged air goes over 30 lol

[WestyVTR]

is it an idea to install a purge kit to help lower the air temp! ie onto the IC ir Inlet!?

[Ratty]

this isnt Nitrous you know lol

you need good engine cooling, ie larger rad, oil cooler etc, and a large intercooler, and sensibly routing your pipe work away from hot objects ie manifold etc. Matched with correct fueling and you have a sound car, unless you go silly with the boost.

[WestyVTR]

but spraying it on the IC would help it cool the air inside it yes!?

[Ratty]

spraying it on would cool the intercooler yes, however if your going to use Nitrous id use it properly and spray it into the engine, that way you cool the inlet charge and not just the cooler.

[WestyVTR]

both if you had it then its doing to jobs!?



thats wot the 400bhp golf was doing that i went in while in wales! so just wonderd if its the same principle for all charged cars....

[Ratty]

yeah you can use it for that, but they normally use it when the cars at its limits or your not allowed to use it, if cars at its limits then you the cooler the air the better, so cooling intercooler and inlet charge will only help, however if its beneficial on all cars thats another matter, ie on a saxo the difference in power it would give is argumentable.

[WestyVTR]

i see bcoz a lil 1.6 16v doesnt really have lots of puff as bigger enghines do you mean! so the benifits are there, but really are they needed, you think not. correct.
smileys/smiley14.gif

[Ratty]

exactly, the more power you get the more your pusing the engine, however on an evo or cossie etc, you can get 800bhp at the wheels plus as its designed for it (ie turbo not designed for 800bhp)