TU5JP4 16v cutting out :(

[wall-e]

Afternoon lads (and any lasses)

This is my first post here, so Hi to all :drink:

I've had a good search around the internet and also this site, but keep drawing blanks. Even the main dealer are a bit useless on the problem that I've got.

Also I know this is a Saxo forum and I drive a 106 gti, but I believe they have basically the same engine a VTS right?

Everybody here seems very knowledgeable compared to the 106 forum Im on and I figured it couldn't hurt to try... so providing its okay for one of your bro's with a pug to ask..

My 1997/R-Plate 106 GTi has been cutting out at speed and struggling to start for a while now. Occasionally it struggles when idling in traffic, usually ending in a stall. It is then very hard to get going again.

I've had it up a pug for a diagnostic yesterday, which flagged MAP sensor and O2 sensor faulty, but they couldn't guarantee replacing them would fix the fault.. cost me £100 for the pleasure too :( (they wanted £370 for the sensors changing.. I told them where to get off).

MAP replaced last night. I also left the battery unplugged for an hour or so to allow faults to clear from the ECU. ICV is also new and so are the plugs.

Not tried replacing the O2 sensor, wouldn't imagine this would cause starting issues or cutting out, more like poor fuel economy.

When the car fails to start it almost seems like the engine is being starved of fuel. Thing is I can't see it being the fuel pump because it drove me 300 miles last night without a hitch.

Seems really temperamental.

Problem still persists.

Any ideas greatly appreciated :)

[Lew_C]

wouldn't be the fuel filter would it? Could be seriously blocked..

[wall-e]

Not tried it yet, the car is 3 months new to me. Basic service was done just before I bought it, its always done the above.

I guess its worth a shot. Cheers for the heads up.

Any other glaringly obvious things to try guys?

[Ste]

Could be the air flow sensor having dirt on it in the throttle body, or the O2 sensors are fudged.

Give the airflow a clean without touching it using carb cleaner or similar (be careful they are fragile). The lambda's can be got for cheap if that doesn't work.

And if all else fails the coil pack might be on its way out, scrappers for this mate as they are a fortune new @ £250.

[wall-e]

Seen genuine bosch O2's for 50 squids, I guess that it next on the list.

Coil pack.. good idea man. Not so sure it'll be this because it seems to run okay once its running.

I guess this is the nature of an intermittent electrical problem. Just want to avoid replacing half the car to find the fault. lol

[Damien91]

I have the same problem, the engine just doesnt rev itself enough when i first start it up and for a while after. Whilst simply waiting at traffic lights or anything similar I have to keep my foot lightly on the accelerator or else itll just simply cut out. The same often happens whilst im changing gear which is incredibly shit and dangerous!

[wall-e]

Damien91 that sounds like ICV trouble, but I could be mistaken.

Does yours ever cut out?

[Lew_C]

Does the car start okay hot and cold?

[wall-e]

Intermittent on both.

Struggles to start first time most times. Often starts okay second time.

Once its cut out when hot it can take a bit of getting going.

[Lew_C]

taking a while to start would probably make me want to suggest something fuel related.. i.e. when not revving much with the engine warm the fuel is running too thin due to it getting too hot and not able to get around the engine creating lumpy running and starvation..causing your car to stall

[Krys_23]

Might seem a little too simple but check your spark plugs, i had the same problem bought four new plugs now the car idles perfect and starts fine.

[wall-e]

Plugs are gapped to 0.6mm as according to mr haynes, they are about a month old.. NGK twin electrode jobbies I believe.

[wall-e]

Lew_Cp it smells a little bit too much of fuel for my liking when you start it. So I'm guessing your not far off :)

Just gave the fuel filter a whack and also pushed on the fuel lines where they go into the tank (or where I think they go into the tank). Its starting first time now, but still sounds weird on idle and feels odd under foot. Starting to suspect my fuel pump.

Why pug were so vauge following their diagnostic I don't know.

Guess I'll change the O2 sensor over the weekend and see if there is an improvement.

When you pull away it threatens to stall after the first couple of hundred metres or so. Then all of a sudden the power comes back quite violently and it runs a little bit better until it eventually cuts out.

Thanks for the input so far guys. Forum here feels really fast moving :D

[chriswoodward]

I used to get this problem with a VTS I had, try another ecu if you know someone with an unlocked one i know it sounds stupid but this was the cause of mine although i spent hundreds on sensors etc. Basically it was just randomly over fueling.

[chriswoodward]

Is the inside of your exhaust particularly sooty?

[wall-e]

Exhaust is relatively new, just had a look at its got a nice rim of soot on there. Soot on fingers, had a quick feel inside (no jokes boys).

I know a guy selling unlocked ECU's for about £85.

Could be worth a shot.

[n123]

mate a lambda sensor never can do that , first try disconnecting it and you will see that the car goes fine , a little rich , but fine , you have or an air leak , or something with the map sensor.

[Colin]

If it struggles to start, its the crank sensor iirc

[wall-e]

Didn't think an O2 sensor could cause it either :(

[wall-e]

Just to update I can't seem to find an air leak anywhere. Doesn't appear to be a sensor, looks like trying a different ECU might be the next step :(

There is one thing I just noticed.

I'm running NGK BKR6EZ plugs, which are gapped to 0.6mm as per mr haynes manual. However haynes list 0.9mm for the gti (or at least on the data at pug spares ebay listing)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peugeot-106-1-4-1-6-Rallye-GTi-16v-NGK-SPARK-PLUGS_W0QQitemZ260460926458QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C arsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ca4ae55fa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1509wt_755

[Liam_]

Been serviced recently?

Try giving the MAP and crank sensors a clean.

[wall-e]

Serviced about a month ago.

Recently had diagnostic at main-dealer.

Couldn't pinpoint the problem. They suggested to try replacing MAP sensor, which I've just done. Had a new ICV, which makes her idle smooth.

Plugs are a month old. As is most of the exhaust system (all standard).

There does appear to be a bit of oil making its way back from the breather to the air intake housing, but its not excessive and the car hasn't been overfilled.

Cleaned all sensors in throttle body.

Its a mystery.

[Liam_]

With the standard oil breathers, you always get a little oil working its way back into the intake - wouldn't worry about that.

Tried cleaning the crank angle sensor? I believe it's on the front of the gearbox (or at least it is on the later VTR). They can get gunked up with dust from the clutch etc.

[wall-e]

I'll try cleaning that this weekend, guessing this will help with the starting problem.

As for the cutting out, somebody else mentioned that the earthing could be bad.

I'm not sure where to check for this or really what that means? :wacko:

[Wizzy]

Sounds like the crank sensor with the cutting out and poor starting.

Plugs should be gapped to 0.9mm on all models iirc.

[Thecherry0121]

is this a standard gti engine or the jp4 c2 307 engine etc ? Could be a weak fuel pump ?

[wall-e]

Its a standard engine bud.

Reckon its worth cleaning the crank sensor as above?.. or is it a case of replacing it.. not cleanable (so to speak)?

I had suspected fuelling. Going to try clean the pickup filter at the weekend, just in case.

I can see next month being expensive, when I get paid I'm going to try a new crank sensor, then fuel pump, then coil pack (maybe, if the above doesn't help), then water temp sensor, then as a last resort unlocked replacement ECU. Thats basically all I can narrow it down to at the moment. lol

All suggestions are much btw appreciated :y:

[Thecherry0121]

try a fuel pump b4 ecu and iv got a crank sensor its the one with the cable for a gti :)

[wall-e]

Will take the crank sensor out tomorrow night just to check it over and report back :)

[picklesayrshire]

any joys on this problem

[wall-e]

Sorry for the delay in replying guys.

Fuel pump now replaced and the cutting out under hard acceleration/at high speed has stopped :)

Many thanks for all info.

I don't think it was the pump itself, but the pressure regulator (I may be wrong, but I believe they are both part of the same unit)

Car starts good now too.

Overall things are much better but I still have this funky issue after pulling away. As before at some point within the first couple of hundred meters she will try to stall. As the power dies I give it some more gas and after a couple of seconds and a violent jolt or two everything seems to run as normal.

This definitely isn't related to the cutting out under hard acceleration though, which has been solved by replacement pump.

Operation get my car running A1 continues. :A:

[Thecherry0121]

knew it would be the pump lol oh and the pressure regulator is in the fuel rail not the pump so its not that

so many issues with weak fuel ppumps on these little french cars

[Thecherry0121]

oh and if you need any more sensors i have them all here :)

[wall-e]

The more reading I do, the more it seems people have lots of fuel pump issues.

Reckon its worth replacing the pressure regulator too just to be on the safe side?

I'm going after the other issue now. When my diagnostic came back from pug they said to replace the lambda sensor as well as the MAP. I've only done the MAP so far.

Relating to the issue of the car wanting to stall in the first few hundred metres or so I'm assuming this is something electrical. Seems almost as if the ECU is getting faulty out of range data from a sensor somewhere which is causing incorrect AFR. I'm assuming it must be then falling back to some kind of preset. Big guessing going on there though.

Was going to try with a new lambda sensor when I get paid.

[wall-e]

oh and if you need any more sensors i have them all here

cheers buddy

[savo]

Try your earths mate..iirc loose or faulty earths can cause cutting out..might be a long shot but definatley cheaper than a new o2 sensor.

[wall-e]

Thanks bud. Have checked my alternator earth, but not sure where else to look.

Shouldn't think the remaining issue is earth related though because the cutting out has stopped, but the weird pulling away issue remains.

[savo]

Thanks bud. Have checked my alternator earth, but not sure where else to look.

Shouldn't think the remaining issue is earth related though because the cutting out has stopped, but the weird pulling away issue remains.

Yea i know what you mean mate but just to rule it out check the earth from the gearbox to the chassis and afaik there should be another on the fuel rail. Faulty earths can make the car act very strangely so worth having a quick look.

[ryanmt]

Cleaning a crank sensor will do nothing, only the map and icv can really be cleaned and evne then its not a wonder fix.. it only sometimes works

Problem is that sensors fail in different ways and causes different problems. If i had to guess i would say your water temp sensor has failed.

[wall-e]

Both ICV and MAP are new.

Good shout on the temp sensor, will do that next Monday when I get paid.

The remaining issue is so odd. Nobody else seems to have had anything similar.

[ryanmt]

my mates engine was cutting out randomly alot.. turned out to be the water temp sensor, we got one but it was the wrong one so just plugged it in and left it resting on the block so it got warm ish.. then caused major flat spots but no cutting out!

Fitted a spare one and its all good now.

[wall-e]

My cutting out was solved by replacing the fuel pump. Its just this screwed up trying to stall in the first couple of hundred meters thats getting me.

Sounds like changing the water temp sensor is worth a shot. Don't have a clue which color head mine is on the r plate gti. lol

[Timlowthian]

My vts got all lumpy and wanted to stall but then jurks and picks up again! Ive just replaced my lambda/02 sensor last week and since then its been running fine so its probally that!

[wall-e]

^^ That sounds quite a bit like what I got. lol

Going for a new temp sensor because I've been kindly offered one real cheap. Doing that as a matter of course and will be ordering a new lambda sensor asap.

Insurance was due this month, which set me back a bit, so I'm holding off on car bits until the 31st.. otherwise I'm eating beans on toast for the rest August. lol

[PUG1OFF]

fuel pump mate iv had this prob with a 106 before changed it and was fine . you can get 1 from a scrappy for £20

[gavbey]

just a little post but do you have any leaks in your fuel line?? sucking in air?

i.e not starting = no priming from the fuel pump

bad tickover = no presure in the fuel rail.??

i may be wrong and i dont know how you could check this but it seem plausible to me,


my jp4 head brought up the exctly same faults but my engine starts and runs fine (a little lumpy but doesent stall)

?

hope this helps you a little.


cheers

[ChrisPage]

Did your car do it all the time? From cold?

I have a similar problem - drive around for ages fine, then at high revs it just stops accelerating and the revs die of till it cuts out. Started just where it would stopf or a second then come back, but now it cuts then won't restart for 5 minutes. Won't do it from cold though, only after it's been running.

I've tried - TDC Sensor, ECU and Fuel Relay Switch.

Next things to try - Heat Sensor, Coil Pack, Fuel Pump.

[McPikie]

have you tried an unlocked ECU yet?

[ChrisPage]

have you tried an unlocked ECU yet?

On my one? Yes - had one in. Same as before - drove around happy as larry for 40 minutes, revving away, then coming onto A38, revved past 4500rpm in third, and it cut. No warning, judder, noise. It's just like I've lifted of the gas.

[ryanmt]

checked for loose lives etc?

[picklesayrshire]

Cleaning a crank sensor will do nothing, only the map and icv can really be cleaned and evne then its not a wonder fix.. it only sometimes works

Problem is that sensors fail in different ways and causes different problems. If i had to guess i would say your water temp sensor has failed.

i cleaned my crank sensor and this sorted out my ruff idling

[snatcher47]

mine used to do it all time, especially when stopping after going fast, i fitted a fuel pressure regulator at 3.5 bar and it seems to have sorted the problem