Whats Best To Gain BHP?

[SaxoKez]

Cams Remapp 4-2-1
on a vtr

or Go VTS?

whats gains would i get from cams on the 8v?

[shinner_vtr]

if you can afford to id go 16v mate then play around with that. ull get much more power from the vts than r

[mikeydamike]

and dont forget the vtr is single cam

[SaxoKez]

just thinking for now, do i go VTS standard just with induction kit and exhaust system
or cam my vtr?

[Ryan]

£ for £ going 16v will allways give you a better starting point.

You need to spend quite alot to get an 8v to 16v power.

[SaxoKez]

£ for £ going 16v will allways give you a better starting point.

You need to spend quite alot to get an 8v to 16v power.

okay just thinking the time etc of going VTS

if i get the VTS it will be standard for some time, well apart from exhaust n induction

for the money of vts i could cam n remapp? n maybe 4-2-1

[Ryan]

can get a vts engine for £3-400 easily.

Fit it yourself.

You wont get a cam and mapping done for that money unless you get the mapping done very very cheap

[SaxoKez]

can get a vts engine for £3-400 easily.

Fit it yourself.

You wont get a cam and mapping done for that money unless you get the mapping done very very cheap

okay thanks, seams solved then :)
VTS it is

how much quicker are they to a vtr? just off the line, not botherd about top end

[3cott]

Go VTS;)

An then get cams an map...

[afn33]

okay thanks, seams solved then :)
VTS it is

how much quicker are they to a vtr? just off the line, not botherd about top end 2.5 secs or thereabouts 98bhp and 120 bhp respectively...not much in it is there!!

[saxova]

I'd rather stay 8vs and save on the fuel! :y:

[SaxoKez]

at min i do about 40mpg

[danovstbudo]

16v if power is wot ur after

[mikey1]

how much time you reckon to switch over to the s as im contemplting it soon :)

[johnlambert]

VTS!!!
vts does 33 mpg

[SaxoKez]

cn live with the mpg then :P

n not sure maybe few days, depends if come across any problems:p

[saxova]

33mpg, granny driving? If so why have that power if you aren't going to use it ;)

So spirited driving = 25ish? Sack that ;).

Can still get 40+mpg heavy footed in a 8v.

[Ryan]

Can still get 40+mpg heavy footed in a 8v.

because you are accelerating at the same speed as a granny on her mobility ped.

;)

[saxova]

i think not lol. Hardly a difference between a vtr/s.

Apart from yours, but you've thrown 5k+ at your engine so that don't count ;).

[blackie_2k5]

and dont forget the vtr is single cam

single camshft! 8 cams or lobes:P and the prize for most cocky cunt on a monday is taken from you and given to me:y:

[saxova]

just for the record ryan, what mpg does your 16v do? 20? 15? :)

[Ryan]

Hardly a difference between a vtr/s.



lol just more bhp, more torque and better gearing. Me and a friend both had standard cars, did a test, vtr was notably slower.

5k? that would get you my head and bottom end alone ;)

[Ryan]

just for the record ryan, what mpg does your 16v do? 20? 15? :)

I dont calculate it but I actually got the similar milage to a tank as my old 8v when driving it as a daily for a few weeks. ;)

[saxova]

Yeah but, a few mods to the 8vs can see the same acceleration as a std vts, but still use less fuel. WIN IMO :)

5k+ was a guess buddy :)

[Ryan]

Yeah but, a few mods to the 8vs can see the same acceleration as a std vts, but still use less fuel. WIN IMO :)


When modifying the engine you will make it more uneconomical in most cases, a few mods? not a small mod changing the cam shaft for most people, and even then you still have the crappy gearbox

[saxova]

i know, i used to get 45-50mpg std. Now i get 40-45mpg and hardly a difference between a std vts what does 33mpg.

Awaits slating that a lightly modified vtr won't keep up with a vts.

3 of my mates have vts's All 3 was surprised!

[blackie_2k5]

Yeah but, a few mods to the 8vs can see the same acceleration as a std vts, but still use less fuel. WIN IMO :)

5k+ was a guess buddy :)

decent mods need a decent remap so that = more fuel so its not really a win, simplefact is the better your engine breathes and the more mixture it can shift ie in and out the better power youll see, 16v's shift mixture alot better then 8v's

[saxova]

decent mods need a decent remap so that = more fuel so its not really a win, simplefact is the better your engine breathes and the more mixture it can shift ie in and out the better power youll see, 16v's shift mixture alot better then 8v's

light mods, basic breathing mods and close ratio box's don't need re-mapping. :y:

[Ryan]

light mods, basic breathing mods and close ratio box's don't need re-mapping. :y:

Theres no close ratio boxes as standard in the PSA range, only a different final drive.

As per my early post, changing the gearbox isnt a 'small' mod which can be done by someone with even basic mechanical knowlege.

[saxova]

5 bolts and a clutch release bearing and a few sensors isn't basic? :hug:

[SaxoKez]

all this debating hey, gets me thinking again :n:

[blackie_2k5]

and then light mods wouldnt give you the smae accelreation as a stock vts lmao, pick a route and stick to it!!!!!!!

[Ryan]

5 bolts and a clutch release bearing and a few sensors isn't basic? :hug:

You have not used the technical sections on here long enough if you think that changing a box is simple enough, most on here cant even change an air filter.

Plus, removing the gearbox isnt just 5 bolts, unless you have magical driveshafts which snap off at the diff end to make changes easyer which I dont know about ;)

[saxova]

IMO a gearbox and breathing mods, are light. And it does give the same acceleration as a stock vts.

cams are heavy/expensive mods

[blackie_2k5]

and ball joints and wheel, and engine mounts and batery boxes etc and so forth

[Ryan]

all this debating hey, gets me thinking again :n:

ask any one whos been on the forums for ages and who first started off 8v.

You will notice almost all have gone 16v.

Why is that, because they want a 16v badge for extra street cred? ;)

[blackie_2k5]

air filter exahaust system = light mod gearbox is not a light mod

[saxova]

You have not used the technical sections on here long enough if you think that changing a box is simple enough, most on here cant even change an air filter.

Plus, removing the gearbox isnt just 5 bolts, unless you have magical driveshafts which snap off at the diff end to make changes easyer which I dont know about ;)


haha fair point.

[saxova]

air filter exahaust system = light mod gearbox is not a light mod

It's a 'light on the wallet' job tho :y:

[Ryan]

IMO a gearbox and breathing mods, are light. And it does give the same acceleration as a stock vts.

cams are heavy/expensive mods

Then change the gearbox on the 16v and its gone again ;)

[saxova]

Still get shit MPG tho ;).

[blackie_2k5]

It's a 'light on the wallet' job tho :y:

s1 rallye box.......approx 200
my ph3, h/g set, timing belt kit water pump and vernier pulley 256 and the cams will last alot longer then the box will before if need refurbing

[Ryan]

Still get shit MPG tho ;).

Just look at adsayer.

Also changing the box on the 8v will change the mpg, as the final drive to gain better in gear performance will give higher rpm for the same road speeds in relation to the stock box ;)

[saxova]

i know this, but it still gets more mpg than a std 16v.

[Ryan]

i know this, but it still gets more mpg than a std 16v.

can still get over 40mpg out of a 16v.

I dont see that theres much difference, especially when one is quicker than the other ;)

[blackie_2k5]

id say an 8v on an s1 box would be around the same as a stock cts tbh, would be revving alot higher, specially motorway miles

[saxova]

40mpg from a 16v isn't going to be faster than a vtr, as you will be pussy footing around everywhere.

So yeah, one is defo quicker than the other ;)

[saxova]

£ for £ going 16v will allways give you a better starting point.

You need to spend quite alot to get an 8v to 16v power.

I disagree with this to.

16v = 3-400 for engine.
1-200 to fit it.
50-100 to insure it.


8v= already have the engine.
20-40 for a 1.1 box 40-80 to fit it.
breathing mods 100-200.


So,
16v= 450-700

or

8v= 200-300

Both will give you roughly the same acceleration.

However the 8v will be saving you <20mpg every 10er worth of fuel.

And a engine conversion is alot more hassle than changing a few things on a 8v.

Good fight. :y:

[Olly]

LOl why the fuck is everyone on about mpg, when the guy wanted to know performance gains....

And as for someone saying gearbox is a light inexpensive modification and that cams are heavy compared...... LOL you've Obviously never looked into it. Seen the price of a Diffed short ratio box, or even a sequential one. And the gains that can be had.

Ryan, you have a passion against the 8v. :p it is true though. Similar money/mods on either engines=16v FTW. There is no contest. Only the passionate and foolish stay 8v :p Oh and the duty bound.

[mikey1]

i need to spend around 500 quid on my vtr to get through its mot mostly gearbox etc should i spend my money on a 16v?

[saxova]

LOl why the fuck is everyone on about mpg, when the guy wanted to know performance gains....

And as for someone saying gearbox is a light inexpensive modification and that cams are heavy compared...... LOL you've Obviously never looked into it. Seen the price of a Diffed short ratio box, or even a sequential one. And the gains that can be had.

Ryan, you have a passion against the 8v. :p it is true though. Similar money/mods on either engines=16v FTW. There is no contest. Only the passionate and foolish stay 8v :p



Didnt mention anything about a diffed short ratio box either.

20 quid for a 1.1 box vs 800 to cam a engine worth 100 quid.

thats a light mod tbh. As it doesn't need a expensive map/ set up on a rr like camming it does.

[saxova]

i need to spend around 500 quid on my vtr to get through its mot mostly gearbox etc should i spend my money on a 16v?


-400 for labour and that's how much you need to spend.

[Ryan]

I disagree with this to.

16v = 3-400 for engine.
1-200 to fit it.
50-100 to insure it.


8v= already have the engine.
20-40 for a 1.1 box 40-80 to fit it.
breathing mods 100-200.


So,
16v= 450-700

or

8v= 200-300

Both will give you roughly the same acceleration.

However the 8v will be saving you <20mpg every 10er worth of fuel.

And a engine conversion is alot more hassle than changing a few things on a 8v.

Good fight. :y:

try getting a vtr over 140bhp staying 8v and NA then try the same 16v, you will soon see which is the more economic way, heck try getting a 8v over 160bhp NA

Hence why everyone whos been around saxos for the last 6-7 years I have been around it has realised that the 8v engine limits you serverly and is not economical to extract good power from.

20mpg difference? making up numbers now are we?

1.1 box aswell, hope your diff lasts if you want to put any proper power through it ;)

[Ryan]

Ryan, you have a passion against the 8v. :p it is true though. Similar money/mods on either engines=16v FTW. There is no contest. Only the passionate and foolish stay 8v :p Oh and the duty bound.

owned a vtr, infact still have one.

Which id say puts me in a good position to say that they are not all that ;)

I loved it when i was younger, it was my first car and have alot of fond memories, im glad i didnt piss money into the wind trying to get serious performance out of it though.

[saxova]

Sorry i meant 20 miles different from 10 quids worth of fuel in a vtr and 10 in a vts.

Why would i try and get 140-160 bhp out of the 8v engine? 100ish is plenty enough to have fun with in a saxo. And it doesn't break the bank.

Anyways going wayyy off the subject of a few simple mods to a 8v to make it the same acceleration as a stock vts, To save the hassle of a engine conversion.

ive had a 1.6 8v pushing 200bhp, Its simply too unreliable to enjoy. Plus the traction issues, it's just not needed in a car that weighs under 1000kg.

[Ryan]

Cams Remapp 4-2-1
on a vtr

or Go VTS?

whats gains would i get from cams on the 8v?

Sorry i meant 20 miles different from 10 quids worth of fuel in a vtr and 10 in a vts.

Why would i try and get 140-160 bhp out of the 8v engine? 100ish is plenty enough to have fun with in a saxo. And it doesn't break the bank.

Anyways going wayyy off the subject of a few simple mods to a 8v to make it the same acceleration as a stock vts, To save the hassle of a engine conversion.

ive had a 1.6 8v pushing 200bhp, Its simply too unreliable to enjoy. Plus the traction issues, it's just not needed in a car that weighs under 1000kg.

Back to the first post.

Cam and remap a vtr or fit a vts.

= Fit a vts engine.

You are the one who went totally off topic going on about mpg ;)

[Ste]

Everyone in the same position as Ryan gives the advice requested and gets slated for saying it. The 8v is shit, its shit, shit shit. I thought it was brilliant then I swapped it for a VTS as I was told and haven't looked back.

Modding the VTR engine isn't really worth doing. Its just as expensive as the 16v but responds with less power. The VTS engine is an instant 30bhp!!!!! It cost me £800 for the full conversion, MK2 Engine on 36k all the labour and a full big service.

Cams= £330
Remap=£350
4-2-1=£140

=£820