ph1's and ph3's

[Lancek]

i have a mk2 vtr ,
and want to cam it..
im not really made of cash so iv been advised to go for ph1's without a map?
would running ph1's without a map be ok?
how much BHP would i be looking at ?

next... i know ph3's are going to add more bhp and everyone will most likly tell me too... but if ph1's will be ok for me.. id rather have them than pay for fitting/map/cam.

this is with a standard manifold a straight through and backbox...
with an open filter

how much bhp from both?

ph1's--
ph3's--

[Sparco_Tom]

i dont really see the point in ph1's, for the cost of buying and fitting etc you might aswell not bother. The gains are quite small. Only cam worth getting for a vtr on standard inlet is a ph3 or equivalent.

If you cant afford the cam, fitting and remap
sort your handling out.

[Lancek]

to fit a ph3 , what else would i need... anything like followrers / pulleys ETC

or just the cam , map and fitting.

[Sparco_Tom]

adjustable pulley will be needed to set the timing correctly

[Lancek]

how much would we be looking at ...

cam , pulley , fit , map...
would it be running fine then?
and how much bhp you looking at.

[Sparco_Tom]

between 100-125 depends how well your engine is doing.
£1000+ in total

[Lancek]

what gain would ph1's give?
and would they need mapping =/

btw cheers :)

[Sparco_Tom]

5-8bhp no mapping required

[Lancek]

tbh for the 200 quid i think thats a fair deal , considering buying a brand new mani is what 200 quid , and that can give just as much gains.

[Ashleyp]

get a VTS engine...

[DeejaySiggens]

get a VTS engine...

what kind of crack is that? he obviously doesn't want a different engine, and for the amount that would cost for him to buy a VTS engine and get it fitted if he doesn't know how to himself, is a pretty big fuck on, and a useless comment from you..
he's wanting to cam his VTR engine... if you're on a budget and not bothered about huge gains, go for PH1, they'll be a less of a fuck on... if not go for ph3, and im not 100%, but i dont think you HAVE to get it mapped with PH3 cams, it will just leave a rough idle (which i think sounds pretty cool)... as long as everything is timed correctly, then it should be okay...

[JamesR]

Am i right in thinking that the PH2 doesnt need a map either ?

[frankie]

PH2 is for the rallyes/xsi's as they have bigger bearings.

i belive its the equivalant of the PH3.

[JamesR]

PH2 is for the rallyes/xsi's as they have bigger bearings.

i belive its the equivalant of the PH3.

Never knew that :D

I always thought it was just slightly more extreme than a PH1 but less than a PH3.

[frankie]

same lol.

but found out other wise. i belive the rallyes/xsi's can run a PH5!!! lol.

[Ashleyp]

what kind of crack is that? he obviously doesn't want a different engine, and for the amount that would cost for him to buy a VTS engine and get it fitted if he doesn't know how to himself, is a pretty big fuck on, and a useless comment from you..
he's wanting to cam his VTR engine... if you're on a budget and not bothered about huge gains, go for PH1, they'll be a less of a fuck on... if not go for ph3, and im not 100%, but i dont think you HAVE to get it mapped with PH3 cams, it will just leave a rough idle (which i think sounds pretty cool)... as long as everything is timed correctly, then it should be okay...

in what world is modding an 8v engine better than using a 16v engine?

[Steve]

what kind of crack is that? he obviously doesn't want a different engine, and for the amount that would cost for him to buy a VTS engine and get it fitted if he doesn't know how to himself, is a pretty big fuck on, and a useless comment from you..
he's wanting to cam his VTR engine... if you're on a budget and not bothered about huge gains, go for PH1, they'll be a less of a fuck on... if not go for ph3, and im not 100%, but i dont think you HAVE to get it mapped with PH3 cams, it will just leave a rough idle (which i think sounds pretty cool)... as long as everything is timed correctly, then it should be okay...

Even on budget and getting a ph1 its still cheaper to get a VTS engine.
Dont know why people kick off when people advise on a VTS engine, probably not what people want to read, but it really is the best way forward.
8v power delivery is shit.

Its not at all hard to do, engines are fairly cheap now tbh, and will still be faster then a cammed VTR with ph1's, or even ph3's and a remap.
PH3's without a remap would run like shit imo. Where is he going to get the extra fuel from if he doesnt get a remap? will have flat spots throughout the rev range. IMO cars with uprated camshafts and no remap always seem to be slower then standard top end.

Looking at around £300 for the camshaft and pulley, then you need headgasket, head bolts, timing belt, tensionor and pulley.
Thats near £500, need someone to fit and time it in properly. Then if getting a remap there is another £500.

VTS engine £250 - £350 depending on source.
Fitting £250 alot of people do it for.

More fucking on changing headgasket + camshaft on a VTR engine then un doing 3 engine mounts, wiring and lifting and engine out, but thats just my opinion :afro:

Dont waste your time on a ph1, few people have had them on a VTR and both said utter shite, i had the PH1 on my VTS a week, did notice a difference but lost all top end, tbf i didnt time them in properly just stuck them in standard.

Take or leave the advise, but i cant see the point in spending a grand on VTR thats still going to get beat by a standard VTS.

Go drive a VTS, then go drive a cammed VTR. See what you think.

The reason you will get beat top end by a standard VTS is because of your VTR gearbox and its long ass final drive.

[DeejaySiggens]

in what world is modding an 8v engine better than using a 16v engine?

no world.. obviously a 16v engine is better to start with, and also can give better gains when modifying/tuning.. but this lad is on a budget and isn't wanting nothing major.. he's wanting a quick and easy answer to get a big more power out of his current engine.. so telling him to get a 16v engine conversion isnt the answer.

[Ashleyp]

for the cost of buying and fitting cams

you can buy and fit a VTS engine

well, there wont be much difference in cost anyway...

as steve said tbh

[DeejaySiggens]

Even on budget and getting a ph1 its still cheaper to get a VTS engine.
Dont know why people kick off when people advise on a VTS engine, probably not what people want to read, but it really is the best way forward.
8v power delivery is shit.

Its not at all hard to do, engines are fairly cheap now tbh, and will still be faster then a cammed VTR with ph1's, or even ph3's and a remap.
PH3's without a remap would run like shit imo. Where is he going to get the extra fuel from if he doesnt get a remap? will have flat spots throughout the rev range. IMO cars with uprated camshafts and no remap always seem to be slower then standard top end.

Looking at around £300 for the camshaft and pulley, then you need headgasket, head bolts, timing belt, tensionor and pulley.
Thats near £500, need someone to fit and time it in properly. Then if getting a remap there is another £500.

VTS engine £250 - £350 depending on source.
Fitting £250 alot of people do it for.

More fucking on changing headgasket + camshaft on a VTR engine then un doing 3 engine mounts, wiring and lifting and engine out, but thats just my opinion :afro:

Dont waste your time on a ph1, few people have had them on a VTR and both said utter shite, i had the PH1 on my VTS a week, did notice a difference but lost all top end, tbf i didnt time them in properly just stuck them in standard.

Take or leave the advise, but i cant see the point in spending a grand on VTR thats still going to get beat by a standard VTS.

fair point...

[JamesR]

no world.. obviously a 16v engine is better to start with, and also can give better gains when modifying/tuning.. but this lad is on a budget and isn't wanting nothing major.. he's wanting a quick and easy answer to get a big more power out of his current engine.. so telling him to get a 16v engine conversion isnt the answer.

Save up then, no point in wasting money now when he could save and get a VTS engine that will be more powerful, cheaper and be a better bench mark for future modifications.

[DeejaySiggens]

Save up then, no point in wasting money now when he could save and get a VTS engine that will be more powerful, cheaper and be a better bench mark for future modifications.

that's true.. whenever iv wanted anything, iv always saved up and persisted until i've got enough for the thing iv been wanting :)

[raunchz]

Have a ride in a Vts - I'm sure it'll change your mind, or even better a cammed Vts, the way it rips through revs is very nice!!! - theres a reason why people tend tofitvts engines

oh and I'd save up and go for a ph3

[Steve]

i have a mk2 vtr ,
and want to cam it..
im not really made of cash so iv been advised to go for ph1's without a map?
would running ph1's without a map be ok?
how much BHP would i be looking at ?

next... i know ph3's are going to add more bhp and everyone will most likly tell me too... but if ph1's will be ok for me.. id rather have them than pay for fitting/map/cam.

this is with a standard manifold a straight through and backbox...
with an open filter

how much bhp from both?

ph1's--
ph3's--

In answer to your original question.

Realistic gains.

ph1 take it to 110 - 115bhp
ph3 with no remap i would say the same, if not worse :afro:
ph3 with remap 120 - 130bhp

But you could get 110 with just breathing mods, its all about how it delivers the power.

All depending on what rolling road you have it set on.
Take them with a pinch of salt, been at rolling road days where a modded 98bhp VTR made less than standard, but still pulled away easy from VTRs that made 112bhp on the same rollers on the same day :afro:

[Ashleyp]

that's true.. whenever iv wanted anything, iv always saved up and persisted until i've got enough for the thing iv been wanting :)

exactly :)

you can mod the 8v engine all you like, but eventually you'll realise 16v is a better engine

both are totally different to drive, the VTR's low down power band really let's it down

[JamesR]

I cant wait until i get around to sourcing a VTS engine tbh :D

[raunchz]

I cant wait until i get around to sourcing a VTS engine tbh :D

Itllbe the best thing you've done to you car!

Also, what's with all these 8v camming queries recently!!

[Finchowned]

If you're going to modify your engine, start with breathing mods first (manifold, de-cat (if you need one on your VTR), decent exhaust and a panel filter) and then choose a cam that is worth bothering about and then perhaps mapping/boddies etc.

Friend of mine spent £170 on a piper cam for his 2.0 8v VW Vento and it made little to no difference! If you're going to do it, do it properly dude. Plenty of power to be had from the 8v lumps without spending silly money. VTS lump is always an option as well.

[JamesR]

If you're going to modify your engine, start with breathing mods first (manifold, de-cat (if you need one on your VTR), decent exhaust and a panel filter) and then choose a cam that is worth bothering about and then perhaps mapping/boddies etc.

Friend of mine spent £170 on a piper cam for his 2.0 8v VW Vento and it made little to no difference! If you're going to do it, do it properly dude. Plenty of power to be had from the 8v lumps without spending silly money. VTS lump is always an option as well.

Its also the better option ;)

[Finchowned]

Its also the better option ;)

Shhhhh! Don't want to upset the 8v boyos :afro: