16V conversion wont start

[ashleyoneill]

Ok so here is the scenario. Its a 106 GTI engine into a 106 Quiksilver.

Everythings been wired in and connected up and we tried starting it for the first time last night. It turns over but it wont fire. It seems the fuel pump is not priming or pumping fuel as the fuel pipe in the engine bay has no fuel coming out of it. Tank has 10 litres in it.

We used the 106 GTI loom, ECU and fuel relay with the Quiksilver fuse box + fuel pump and fuel cut off switch.

I have tried the following.

Pressed the red fuel cut off switch. Checked the fuel pump fuse.

The next thing i was gonna do is the following

change fuel relay under ECU.

Anything else i can do. Suggestions?

Any help much appreciated.

[2000vtr]

checked theres voltage at the pump?

wire it directly to the battery to see if it works?

[ryanmt]

check your getting all the lives to the ignition relay? Is there 3 thick blue wires running tot he fuse box and 1 thin one? they all need perm lives.

[ashleyoneill]

checked theres voltage at the pump?

wire it directly to the battery to see if it works?

I can check it with the multimeter but the pump was working fine for 6 years in the Quiksilver before we did the conversion so i imagine its an electrical problem.

[vtrlogan]

Check you have spark at the plugs.. if you got sparks then your ecu isnt locked.

if you got pulse to the coilpack put no spark then your ecu is locked..

If not check crank sensor, take it off and clean with wd40 on the connection.

[ashleyoneill]

check your getting all the lives to the ignition relay? Is there 3 thick blue wires running tot he fuse box and 1 thin one? they all need perm lives.

Il check that tonight. So three thick wires going into the fusebox and one thin one.

We put the fusebox back exactly how we took it apart. I will get a picture of it and post it up.

[vtrlogan]

you can also put the fuel pump straight to the battery from taking number 9 fuse out i think and connecting a wire from the right side off the fuse to the main positive on the side off the fuse box. had to do it on my old gti as had no end off ecu faults!

[ashleyoneill]

Check you have spark at the plugs.. if you got sparks then your ecu isnt locked.

if you got pulse to the coilpack put no spark then your ecu is locked..

If not check crank sensor, take it off and clean with wd40 on the connection.

Im pretty sure the ECU is unlocked because we had the engine running in the GTI and removed the immobiliser while it was running and then restarted the car.

Crank sensor was cleaned.

Its definately a fuel supply problem as the pump isnt priming.

Im also guessing that a locked ECU doesnt prevent the pump from priming.

[vtrlogan]

no with a locked ecu the fuel pump WILL sound like it is priming but it doesnt send petrol.. its werid i had the problem with my gti mate..

[ashleyoneill]

Ok. The quiksilver wont prime at all :(

[vtrlogan]

tae number 9 fuse out and connect a wire to the postive and connect it to the red wire on the side off the fuseholder then try ur fuel pump.. think it number 9..

[ashleyoneill]

So fuse number 9 out and connect a wire from the battery positive to the right hand hole of the fuse i just took out?

[Colin]

Did you remove the standard Quicky immobiliser? Coz if not the ecu/key codes dont match and then it locks itself again.

[ashleyoneill]

Yep. Quiky ECU removed before the ECU was connected :)

[ashleyoneill]

Interestingly the fuel guage is still working. Doesnt this come from the pump. If there was no power to the pump surely it wouldnt work?

[Colin]

Does it crank over? I cant see it being anything else other than locked ecu or wiring slightly wrong somewhere.

[ashleyoneill]

it cranks just no priming of the pump or any fuel coming through. ECU is unlocked and immobiliser is removed.

Il give some stuff a try tonight with my multimeter and see whether i can get it figured out.

Thanks.

[shayne_vtr]

try changing ignition barrel

[ashleyoneill]

Ok so on second stage on ignition there is 2.5 volts accross pin 1 and 2 of the fuel pump connector. With no ignition on there is no voltage. Any ideas? Working on it now.

Thanks

[williamsvts]

should be higher voltage than that. you checked all earths? most conversion problems are down to bad earths.

[williamsvts]

does it crank over? your battery ok? lol

[ashleyoneill]

should be higher voltage than that. you checked all earths? most conversion problems are down to bad earths.

Think i have checked all earths. there is one big one off the battery negative to the chassis which i rubbed down and made a good connection on yesterday.

Then there is another one on the gearbox from the battery which i made a good connection on yesterday as well by rubbing it down.

Also connected to the gearbox earth is what i think is an earth that comes out of the loom not far from the starter motor wiring. It is green and yellow. On my VTS this same wire is connected to a different bolt on top of the gearbox but the gearbox on the 106 GTI is earlier and doesnt have this second bolt so i put that earth on the same as the battery to gearbox one.

Hope that makes sense. Thank you for your help.

[ashleyoneill]

does it crank over? your battery ok? lol

Yep it cranks over really well and battery is fully charged :)

[ryanmt]

have you plugged the ecu in and left your old transponder box plugged in?

[ashleyoneill]

have you plugged the ecu in and left your old transponder box plugged in?

you mean the immobiliser black box which is under the steering wheel on the quiky?

If so yes that was removed before the ECU was connected :)

[ashleyoneill]

have you plugged the ecu in and left your old transponder box plugged in?

Did you read what i said about the earths? Does that seem ok?

Thanks.

[kyle4256]

wat fuel pump you using?gti or quicksilver? if i remember rite do you not need to run a return fuel pipe through aswell?

[ashleyoneill]

wat fuel pump you using?gti or quicksilver? if i remember rite do you not need to run a return fuel pipe through aswell?

Quiksilver pump but we ran the fuel return we took from the GTI and modified the tank setup to be exactly the same as the GTI.

Strange how the pump is only getting 2.5 volts of power instead of 12 :S

[kyle4256]

if it was me id be using the gti fuel pump, sounds like a wiring issue though...

[raunchz]

I've used a westcoast fuel pump on mine with no problems to report yet.

[ashleyoneill]

one other thing maybe worth noting is that they were both single plug looms but the GTI was a 1997 and the quicksilver was a 1999. Could this be causing the issue. The GTI fuel pump connector only has 3 wires but the quiksilver fuel pump connector has 5 wires.

[ashleyoneill]

anyone?

kind of annoying me now :D

does anyone know if the looms may cause this problem with one being a 97 and one being a 99?

[raunchz]

anyone?

kind of annoying me now :D

does anyone know if the looms may cause this problem with one being a 97 and one being a 99?

No should be fine.

Run 12v to the fuel pump to see if it's that

[ashleyoneill]

No should be fine.

Run 12v to the fuel pump to see if it's that

thanks raunchz

+12v to pin 1 and -12v to pin 2 on the connector?

[raunchz]

thanks raunchz

+12v to pin 1 and -12v to pin 2 on the connector?

I don't know which pins off the top of my head, a mulitmeter will tell you which pins you need

[ashleyoneill]

Ok...quick update.

Had a friend over who is an electrical engineer.

He said there is power to the ignition relay but no power leaves the relay to go to the fusebox and then onto the cut off switch and then to the pump. He said the earths look good and that the 2.5 volts that we are seeing is the fuel level sender.

He suggested we do the following.

1) Try the GTI and Quiksilver relays in my VTS to see if they are faulty.
2) Change the loom from the 97 one to the 99 one my friend has bought.
3) Try a fully unlocked ECU - could this be the cause? We unlocked the GTI ECU by starting the car and removing the immobiliser and then the GTI restarted fine. We also removed the Quiky immobiliser box before reconnecting the GTI ECU.

One last random point. My friend painted the ECU tray black....the ECU doesnt earth itself in some crazy way via this tray does it?

[ryanmt]

No, the ecu case doesnt need an earth.

The power doesnt go from the relay to the fusebox it comes from the fusebox. The feed for the pump is direct from the relay. the cutoff switch breaks the connection between pin 7 of the IR and pin 7 on the ecu.

Plug the quicky ecu and ecu box back in and see what happens

[ashleyoneill]

Thanks Ryan.

Ran a permenant +12V today and it started and ran yay.

So it seems ECU is unlocked and working fine. Now to fix the problem with the relay not sending the +12v :(

[c20xejay]

No, the ecu case doesnt need an earth.

The power doesnt go from the relay to the fusebox it comes from the fusebox. The feed for the pump is direct from the relay. the cutoff switch breaks the connection between pin 7 of the IR and pin 7 on the ecu.

Plug the quicky ecu and ecu box back in and see what happens

are you the lad on ebay by any chance ive been txting bout unlocking ecu?

[c20xejay]

I've used a westcoast fuel pump on mine with no problems to report yet.

might sound silly but does it run just as well cos ill be using a 1.4 fuel pump for the time being no missfire or anything.

[ashleyoneill]

are you the lad on ebay by any chance ive been txting bout unlocking ecu?

nope not me mate.

[ashleyoneill]

might sound silly but does it run just as well cos ill be using a 1.4 fuel pump for the time being no missfire or anything.

It ran fine for the time we had it started.

[c20xejay]

nope not me mate.

no ryan lad

[ashleyoneill]

no ryan lad

haha sorry im being dumb and not reading whos quoting who :(

[ashleyoneill]

Just an update. Got a 99 loom from eBay and installed it and now the pump primes fine and the car starts.

Seems there is a difference between the 97 and 99 looms.

Watch out for that one people!

[littleo13]

alright mate good 2 here you got it all sorted in the end :) i should be doing the 16v soon from a vtr fingers crossed all goes good and well and just steering off the subject this is gonna sound wired but i have the exactly the same name as you :s by any chance is your middle name thomas aswell lol wired that is both call ashley o'neill and got saxo's haha