good idea to put a vts geabox on a vtr? help

[stroutsy]

just wondering because ive heard vts boxes are a shorter ratio would it be worth putting a vts gearbox on a vtr engine? help wpuld be great thanks.:mobile:

[vtrlogan]

Had one on my last one, and didnt like it very much tbh.. ratios not right for vtr engine in my eyes :P stick to vtr box, or look for a rallye box from a 106

[Mochachino]

They have same ratio's different final drive.

Improves accelaration. One of best things I done to my VTR.

[johnr32]

Dont like a VTR box on a VTR because it bogs down so much at lower revs.

[vtrlogan]

They have same ratio's different final drive.

Improves accelaration. One of best things I done to my VTR.

Surely vts box gives slower acceration..? more topend..? mabey wrong, my vtr sucked with vts box..

[Cammy]

Surely vts box gives slower acceration..? more topend..? mabey wrong, my vtr sucked with vts box..

Turbo saxo though isnt it, so with the turbo, the longer ratio's mean more acceleration due to less time changing gears?

[vtrlogan]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125615

Vtr box is longer, but im pretty sure ive had the most vtr's with different boxes, no offence, but simply have, want acceration get a s1 1.3 box, want good alround stick to vtr box, i personaly think vts box sucks on vtr engine, due to the torque, mabey if you have your vtr remapped so revs to the same as a vts but just changing the box wont give you hardly anything,

shorter final drive to motorway miles not as good as vtr box, and 1,2,3 gears are pretty much the same.. check that link, for vaild proof, and remember the vts box is revved to 7250, not vtr rev range..

[vtrlogan]

Turbo saxo though isnt it, so with the turbo, the longer ratio's mean more acceleration due to less time changing gears?

pretty certain, only reson vts box appears to be longer as it revs 1k more than a standard vtr..?

Please dont think i no 100% what im talking about but ive had many vtr's/gti's and thats just my personaly opional, but i have just sold a vtr with vts box and brought a new vtr with vtr box, and i can promise you vtr box feels alot better!

[Matty]

Is the vts box a straight swap? Or do you need to change the clutch or drive shafts?

[vtrlogan]

the same, all boxes are the saxo from the 106/saxo i think..

[johnr32]

shorter final drive to motorway miles not as good as vtr box, and 1,2,3 gears are pretty much the same.. check that link, for vaild proof, and remember the vts box is revved to 7250, not vtr rev range.

Isnt everything mentioned above good in terms of performance?

[Mochachino]

Vtr box is longer, but im pretty sure ive had the most vtr's with different boxes, no offence, but simply have, want acceration get a s1 1.3 box, want good alround stick to vtr box, i personaly think vts box sucks on vtr engine, due to the torque, mabey if you have your vtr remapped so revs to the same as a vts but just changing the box wont give you hardly anything,

shorter final drive to motorway miles not as good as vtr box, and 1,2,3 gears are pretty much the same.. check that link, for vaild proof, and remember the vts box is revved to 7250, not vtr rev range..

If a VTS box sucks on a VTR because it dosent rev as high as a VTS and because of the torque, then a 1.3 rallye box would be even worse.

Good all-round is a VTS box. Box makes much more difference than you think then mate!

[stroutsy]

im very confused. worth doing or not? and what does it consist of.? thanks lol

[Mochachino]

vtrlogan is the first person ive heard of say a vts box on an NA vtr is bad.

Its a straight swap. Will increase accelaration, top speed wont be effected on the road, not that top speed is a factor...who takes it to the redline in 5th? With no resistance in any form, a vtr box will give higher top speed.

VTR box will be more economical than the VTS box.

[Morgzc]

Had one on my last one, and didnt like it very much tbh.. ratios not right for vtr engine in my eyes :P stick to vtr box, or look for a rallye box from a 106

Agreed, I now have this car. 3 hour motorway journeys with a constant 3500rpm drone is bloody annoying.
Backroad driving on the other hand, f**king ace.

Vts box with a vtr 5th imo!

[vtrlogan]

If a VTS box sucks on a VTR because it dosent rev as high as a VTS and because of the torque, then a 1.3 rallye box would be even worse.

Good all-round is a VTS box. Box makes much more difference than you think then mate!

1.3 s1 rallye box is one off the shortest boxes you can get had one on my cammed vtr, hit redline at about 115 (speedo) if you want decent gains from a box go that.

i can promise it isnt worth doing. try it if you want. you will probaly notice better gains by having a good service then changing the box.. just look at the ratios.. there isnt pretty much any difference in 1,2,3.. final drive is longer on vtr box so at 70mpg your only at 3k with vts box will be not far from 4.. if you want torque at 70mph, try changing down ;)

[Mochachino]

What I dont understand is that you're saying the VTS box isnt as good because its shorter than the VTR box. But the 1.3 rallye box is also shorter than the vts box, so how come the vts box isnt any good because its shorter, but the 1.3 rallye box is good because its shorter?

[Mochachino]

Agreed, I now have this car. 3 hour motorway journeys with a constant 3500rpm drone is bloody annoying.
Backroad driving on the other hand, f**king ace.

Vts box with a vtr 5th imo!

vts 5th and vtr 5th are the same. Putting a vtr 5th on a vts box wont make any difference, you're replacing it with something identical. The early VTR box ratio shown on here aint very common.

[chinkostu]

Agreed, I now have this car. 3 hour motorway journeys with a constant 3500rpm drone is bloody annoying.
Backroad driving on the other hand, f**king ace.


same with a 1.1 box. top end is about 116 (at a right push) but accelleration is so much better!

[johnr32]

What I dont understand is that you're saying the VTS box isnt as good because its shorter than the VTR box. But the 1.3 rallye box is also shorter than the vts box, so how come the vts box isnt any good because its shorter, but the 1.3 rallye box is good because its shorter?

think what logan's trying to say is the vts box is a better box in terms of performance compared to a vtr box but in his opinion not a big enough jump like the rallye box so its not worth it.

[superCREG]

I put a VTS gearbox in my VTR, doesnt feel any different, if anything a little nippier ;p

[loudandproud205]

vts 5th and vtr 5th are the same. Putting a vtr 5th on a vts box wont make any difference, you're replacing it with something identical. The early VTR box ratio shown on here aint very common.

I must have had an very early vtr box then as ive sworn for years that vtr 5th was different after taking one to bits to put vtr 5th on an ax gti box for less strain when motorway cruising.

I will see if i can find an old pic of when i took both boxes to bits to compair.

Glad you told me that was only the early one's as I was about to build a box for a mate with what was a 1.4xsi box with blown diff but he wanted 5th out the vtr box fitting aswell.

Is there a box code I can check to make sure which box he has is one that shares the same ratio's?

[Mochachino]

Theres loads of codes floating around. Also if you're prem member in the articles section is the ratios for the newer boxes that bobc got.

[chinkostu]

think what logan's trying to say is the vts box is a better box in terms of performance compared to a vtr box but in his opinion not a big enough jump like the rallye box so its not worth it.

aren't rallye and XSI boxes like rocking horse shit though?

tbh ANYTHING is better than a vtr box

[vtr_chris90]

Yer there's 2 different types of fifth on the vtr box can't remember exactly what the differences were, raunchz mentioned it when he put a vtr fifth on his s1 rallye box, and he said it cruises roughly doing 70mph at around 3500rpm which is the same as what my current s2 rallye box cruises at

As for the guys first question, the box will improve acceleration and is probably the far better all round box in my eyes, I've driven with both the vtr box, 1400xsi box, 16v box and s2 rallye box and I'd say if you only use your car for commuting stick with the vtr box if you go on motorways alot, if you want a box that improves alot of acceleration I'd say find a 1400xsi box it suits the 8v very well in my eyes I still maintained 400miles to a tank too but had to sacrafise cruising speed and travel at 55mph ish even on motorways as that was sittin at just over 3k, 60 was about 3200-3300rpm and 70mph was over 4k it was fucking loud lol where as vtr box sat at an easy 3k doing 70mph. So ignore the s1 box imo unless it's a pure fun car, as it is worse than the xsi box for Speed vs rpm
But if you don't mind sitting at a tiny bit higher rpm and want a bit more acceleration I'd say go with a 16v box it's a nice box

There's a lot of ups and downs to all boxs tbh depending on what u use your car for I mean I travelled for 50mile a day with the xsi box and didn't mind it, and it was great fun down the back roads, but did some times think I should have gone for the s2 rallye box or 16v box
I'm currently using a 16v box and is amazing lol I travel on motorways at 70 and is fine, then a bit of poke when needed.
Also as for the 16v having higher limiters has no real affect to what box you use, have a faster accelerating box ie Vts xsi or rallye box just means you get through the revs quicker, and don't do as high a speed as your doing lower speeds to higher rpms

Ps Sorry for the essay lol I'm bored

[vtr_chris90]

*** double post***

[DannyVTS]

For comparison, i've got a VTR box in my S and the RPM of the engine is a lot lower on the motorway in 5th

[loudandproud205]

Theres loads of codes floating around. Also if you're prem member in the articles section is the ratios for the newer boxes that bobc got.

No am not premium but I did receive my first ban for stealing the old gearbox info :oops:

Which as it happen's uses the older vtr ratio's it seem's.

I have compiled alot of info since but no reference to different vtr boxes??

I have found that there was a minimum of 2 different 1.1 box's one with the exact ratio's of the gti box and the other similar to the 1.5 diesel.

[Morgzc]

vts 5th and vtr 5th are the same. Putting a vtr 5th on a vts box wont make any difference, you're replacing it with something identical. The early VTR box ratio shown on here aint very common.
Not so sure, I had a late 98 vtr and at 70 in 5th I was at 3000rpm and in the new car im at 3500rpm.

[outrage_uk]

good idea to put a vts geabox on a vtr? help

No. I wish I never did it. But then again I do alot of motorway miles... I kept having to take the foot off the accelerator cos it felt like the engine was gunna blow up :n:

If anything, Id want to do what DannyVTS has done and go the other way with a VTR box in a VTS... depends on how you drive to be honest.

Its a straight swap between VTR/S, clutch/linkages/drive shafts are interchangeable. :y:

[vtr_chris90]

depends what speed you do on the motorwa though mate
peak torque on a vtr is between 3000rpm and 3500pm think its 3k on mk1 (90bhp) and 3.5k on the mk2 (98bhp) if i remember rightly, which is where you would get btter mpg, well it will help to get bette mpg adsayer did n excellent hread on this in the problems section its a sticky at the time
anyway, like i said depending on the speed say if you sit at 70-75mph on the motorway with a vts box on the vtr you would be sitting at 3500 doing 75mph if i remember right which is ideal

[vtrlogan]

think what logan's trying to say is the vts box is a better box in terms of performance compared to a vtr box but in his opinion not a big enough jump like the rallye box so its not worth it.


Nail on the head.. In my eyes as I said it isn't worth changing, the ratios pretty close and I think if you want decent acceration get a proper box like s1 rallye..

Your gunna spend 60 on a vts box, but would be better off spending 60 on decent service kit! This is from my experience. And in my eyes simply not worth the swap unless your box is dead and you found a vts box cheap..

Please don't think I'm trying to argue with you, it's that I have just sold a
Vtr with vts box, and picked a vtr up with vtr box, and it just feels much better!

[Mochachino]

Not so sure, I had a late 98 vtr and at 70 in 5th I was at 3000rpm and in the new car im at 3500rpm.

Yes because you have a different final drive lol. Same gear cluster, same 5th gear.

@vtrlogan, I see what you're saying now, if you're going to do it go the full way with the 1,3 rallye

[chinkostu]

No. I wish I never did it. But then again I do alot of motorway miles... I kept having to take the foot off the accelerator cos it felt like the engine was gunna blow up :n:

If anything, Id want to do what DannyVTS has done and go the other way with a VTR box in a VTS... depends on how you drive to be honest.

Its a straight swap between VTR/S, clutch/linkages/drive shafts are interchangeable. :y:

all MA boxes fit interchangably with all 106's/saxos lol.

best and worst thing i did was put that 1.1 box in. accelleration is fantastic but when you're cruising its horrible

[stroutsy]

ok after all that kerfufle thing im just going to stick to a standard box lol. either a 16v or nothing.. cheers for the help guys

[stuartm]

Seems i have a vtr box in my vts, 40mph in 2nd is 4000rpm & hits the 'indicated' rev cut out at 7800rpm(78mph), it's perfect for overtaking:y:

[Ellisg93]

I wouldn't bother, i'd use the 1.1 gearbox :)

[CitroenSport]

Have a Vts box on mine and it's much much better especially acceleration but bit of a pain on motorways I think at 80mph it's sitting at 4k revs :(

if you do alot of motorway miles stick to the vtr box
if you don't and want more acceleration get the Vts box

[bengtt5]

what about the diesel box on a vtr

[-shuggles-]

what about the diesel box on a vtr

I am more than sure they would gearing would be really long?

[vtr_chris90]

what about the diesel box on a vtr

The diesel box has the same final drive and gear ratios as the vtr and quicky/furio/westy box's iirc

So will actually be no different/pointless fitting a diesel box

[johnr32]

The diesel box has the same final drive and gear ratios as the vtr and quicky/furio/westy box's iirc

So will actually be no different/pointless fitting a diesel box

a diesel box is extremely similar to the R box in terms of gearing except gears 1 and 2 - the diesel box has shorter 1st and 2nd gears so its better for acceleration. However, difference is so tiny its almost negligible.

p.s just noticed we're drifting off topic here :P

[vtr_chris90]

Oh yer that's it, I remember now lol
Just looked at a couple of gearbox threads too :)
Yer I think it would be one of them things where your mind makes you think it's made a lot more of a difference that it actually has if that makes sense :s lol
Really can't think of the word though for what I've just said haha

Lol I think it has drifted off a bit from the main question but is still on the gearbox topic atleast ;)