Turbo or Throttle Bodies, Pro's and Con's? Opinions..

[CarlosVT]

Hi guys,

Thought I'd put a thread up as in the future I'm interested in getting a turbo or bodies on a 16v.

What are the pro's and con's of both? how much am I looking at for both set ups? how much power could be achieved? Which one is best for a daily driver? Any comments from people with bodies or turbo's would be much appreciated!

Thanks guys! :y:

[AXracing]

When I drive cars fast I like normally aspirated engine. They are more responsive and in my opinion more enjoyable. However a turbo opens up the potential to get a lot of power out of a small engine. The turbo also give you a lot of extra go for the cash.

[ashw106rallye]

N/A bodies ftw :)

[JonCarter]

Hi guys,

Thought I'd put a thread up as in the future I'm interested in getting a turbo or bodies on a 16v.

What are the pro's and con's of both? how much am I looking at for both set ups? how much power could be achieved? Which one is best for a daily driver? Any comments from people with bodies or turbo's would be much appreciated!

Thanks guys! :y:

As was said turbo opens big areas for tuning etc but throttle bodies have power there and then unlike a turbo which has to spool up also with a turbo they have too spool up and obviously the higher boost and bigger the turbo the longer it will take to spool. iirc it is something like 8k to do a ITB conversion thats with the throttle bodies, manifold and work. turbo can start up from £1.2k and running low boost to £3k from cituning then you can run high/stupid amounts of boost :fcuk: *awaits corrections*

[CarlosVT]

Thanks for the replies so far guys :)

How much am I looking at for each set up? I think N/A (Bodies) would be better for a daily driver?

[CarlosVT]

As was said turbo opens big areas for tuning etc but throttle bodies have power there and then unlike a turbo which has to spool up also with a turbo they have too spool up and obviously the higher boost and bigger the turbo the longer it will take to spool. iirc it is something like 8k to do a ITB conversion thats with the throttle bodies, manifold and work. turbo can start up from £1.2k and running low boost to £3k from cituning then you can run high/stupid amounts of boost :fcuk: *awaits corrections*

Thanks for that mate. ITB conversions are 8k? I swear I've seen conversions for a lot less money than that?

[JonCarter]

Thanks for that mate. ITB conversions are 8k? I swear I've seen conversions for a lot less money than that?

like i said mate i might be wrong on prices i might be getting confused with the supercharging route :oops:

[SAM-S44MDS-]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5073414#post5073414

Good price on there for the bodies & cams mate :y:

[ashw106rallye]

Thanks for that mate. ITB conversions are 8k? I swear I've seen conversions for a lot less money than that?

jenvey bodies setup £1000
ecu £500
loom for ecu £350
forged pistons £500
cams £350-£600
mapping £duno
it all addes up duno bout 8k tho probs for a mental setup :)

[CarlosVT]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5073414#post5073414

Good price on there for the bodies & cams mate :y:

Thanks mate but looking to do it in the future. I have only just got myself a rebuilt VTS engine to do a conversion so still have a bit of work to do before I think about getting a ITB set-up :)

jenvey bodies setup £1000
ecu £500
loom for ecu £350
forged pistons £500
cams £350-£600
mapping £duno
it all addes up duno bout 8k tho probs for a mental setup :)

That sounds more like it! I know I could get bodies, ecu and that cheaper on here, I don't plan to buy brand new bodies and stuff so I think with around 1.5k - 2k I could do a pretty decent ITB conversion?

[CarlosVT]

like i said mate i might be wrong on prices i might be getting confused with the supercharging route :oops:

Yeah I think so mate :oops: 8k is a lot of money for ITB's.

[ashw106rallye]

2-3k is good for a nice bodie setup :)

[CarlosVT]

Sounds good mate :)

[ashw106rallye]

you doin this to dans old white vtr?

[dannygti]

people go on about lag but really its nothing to complain about, especially against a highly strung N/A engine. take a 210bhp super 1600 engine for example, it wont make hardly any power till after 4-5 or even 6k.. then you get most of your power until say 9k..
with a 210bhp turbo engine you could spec a turbo to spool up by 2k and have most of the power (i.e 170bhp+) right from 3k all the way to 7k.. and have 2x the torque.

my car was throttle boddied, now im in the process of turboing it so ill get back to you with a in depth review once its done.

[Mochachino]

You can just get boddies and put them on a standard engine if you want. Perfectly fine. 100% obviously with a remap and ECU.

[ashw106rallye]

turbos are gay tho n/a al the way :)

[CarlosVT]

you doin this to dans old white vtr?

Yeah mate, also planning to go Euro-ish on it.

people go on about lag but really its nothing to complain about, especially against a highly strung N/A engine. take a 210bhp super 1600 engine for example, it wont make hardly any power till after 4-5 or even 6k.. then you get most of your power until say 9k..
with a 210bhp turbo engine you could spec a turbo to spool up by 2k and have most of the power (i.e 170bhp+) right from 3k all the way to 7k.. and have 2x the torque.

my car was throttle boddied, now im in the process of turboing it so ill get back to you with a in depth review once its done.

Thanks for the info mate, I see where you are coming from. How much would it set me back to get a turbo set up like that?

How much did you spend on your throttle body set up and what sort of power where you pushing? How much are you spending on your turbo set up?

A review would be awesome. Also, sorry for the questions bombardment mate.

[CarlosVT]

You can just get boddies and put them on a standard engine if you want. Perfectly fine. 100% obviously with a remap and ECU.

If I had bodies, ecu, cams and remap. How much power would I be looking to achieve? Worth doing?

[Mochachino]

Depends which cams..ph3 155/60ish...?

[sliderz]

how much money you got that what it boils down to
and the only way of getting serious power is charger or turbo and low comp pistons rods and a new standalone ecu and injectors

[blackie_2k5]

throttle bodies are nice but turbo's are better, problem your gonna have with a thread like this there are too many dif opinions/preferances out there, and the n/a boosted debate is a long and never ending dispute, it all boils down to what YOU want from your engine, as already pointed out with similar spends you can get ALOT more power and torque from a turbo when compared to a bodie's set up

danny is right on the money with his post, BUT lag can be fun too, its what makes a turbo more appealing to some then a s/charger, one big burst of power on spool up

reliability issues are near enough the same as big power throttle body builds are just as likely to break, but with a charged set up more particularly turbo.. your more then likelyto suffer more drive train related problems due to the extra torqe ad te way its delivered

[CarlosVT]

Depends which cams..ph3 155/60ish...?

Sweet, ph3's best ones to go for mate?

how much money you got that what it boils down to
and the only way of getting serious power is charger or turbo and low comp pistons rods and a new standalone ecu and injectors

I want good power for a reliable daily driver :)

throttle bodies are nice but turbo's are better, problem your gonna have with a thread like this there are too many dif opinions/preferances out there, and the n/a boosted debate is a long and never ending dispute, it all boils down to what YOU want from your engine, as already pointed out with similar spends you can get ALOT more power and torque from a turbo when compared to a bodie's set up

danny is right on the money with his post, BUT lag can be fun too, its what makes a turbo more appealing to some then a s/charger, one big burst of power on spool up

reliability issues are near enough the same as big power throttle body builds are just as likely to break, but with a charged set up more particularly turbo.. your more then likelyto suffer more drive train related problems due to the extra torqe ad te way its delivered

Blackie.. Awesome info, thank you! Would you say that a good throttle body set up would be a bit more reliable for a daily driver? I'd love to have a turbo to be honest but I can just see it being a bit more unreliable and a lot more work being involved than bodies?

[AXracing]

people go on about lag but really its nothing to complain about, especially against a highly strung N/A engine. take a 210bhp super 1600 engine for example, it wont make hardly any power till after 4-5 or even 6k.. then you get most of your power until say 9k..
with a 210bhp turbo engine you could spec a turbo to spool up by 2k and have most of the power (i.e 170bhp+) right from 3k all the way to 7k.. and have 2x the torque.

you are missin what turbo lag is. even when a turbo is spinning and you have boost it take a long time to speed up and slow down. this is the lag. the more boost the more lag you get.

[stevo67]

Drop the 16v lump in 1st & see how you like the extra power then later make a decision on throttle bodies/turbo.

Steve.

[CarlosVT]

Drop the 16v lump in 1st & see how you like the extra power then later make a decision on throttle bodies/turbo.

Steve.

The white saxo will be my 4th saxo mate. I had a black VTS so I know what 16v is like.

Thanks for the input though :)

[Dave_P]

I'd say go for bodies, a sandy inlet & GSX R1000 TB's and KMS ECU & adapter for plug & play from QEP would be the most cost effective option, add 708 cat cams & raceland/saxport for 165-170bhp... a quaife atb diff would top things off nicely. :)

[blackie_2k5]

Sweet, ph3's best ones to go for mate?



I want good power for a reliable daily driver :)



Blackie.. Awesome info, thank you! Would you say that a good throttle body set up would be a bit more reliable for a daily driver? I'd love to have a turbo to be honest but I can just see it being a bit more unreliable and a lot more work being involved than bodies?

its totally dependant on your spends and expected power mate, 160bhp on a tb set up should be fairly reliable, but then 180bhp on a turbo.... providing both have good mapping and the turbo has good intercooling should be near enough equal in terms of relaiblitly give or take, once you start getting beyond beyond those powers(some will say before/after) you start to need upgrades in terms of forged internals etc, you could get to 230bhp turbo quite easily before starting to worry about drivetrain issues in most cases and still be fairly reliable, but above 160bhp in a throttle body set up your going to be revving very high/wild cams, and this is a worry too..... high tolerances etc

there will be many cases where x and y has been done to achieve blah blah and run for x or y time with no issues on standards internals, but most who do want a good reliable set up regardless of what they choose will upgrade the relevant parts beforehand for an expected power or budget, you need to decide that first......

[Dave_P]

you could get to 230bhp turbo quite easily before starting to worry about drivetrain issues

Thats crap!

The torque and delivery of it with 230bhp will not be gearbox friendly, particularly on a used gearbox with god knows how many miles on it and an unsympathetic driver.


in most cases and still be fairly reliable, but above 160bhp in a throttle body set up your going to be revving very high/wild cams, and this is a worry too.


Thats crap too!

708 cat cams will peak at 7400-7500rpm, thats not "revving very high" and they're not "wild cams".

Even the boy from gmc is happy with hydraulic lifters reving to 7800rpm.

[blackie_2k5]

Thats crap!

The torque and delivery of it with 230bhp will not be gearbox friendly, particularly on a used gearbox with god knows how many miles on it and an unsympathetic driver.



Thats crap too!

708 cat cams will peak at 7400-7500rpm, thats not "revving very high" and they're not "wild cams".

Even the boy from gmc is happy with hydraulic lifters reving to 7800rpm.

and the debate starts, i said you can get up to 230bhp before you start worrying about drievtrain issues, as plenty ppl have, i never said anything would be gearbox friendly did i;)

i also said once above 160bhp your going to be revving high, i never said anything about running 708s at a slightly uprated rev limit, (although it may be worth noting by above 160bhp i meant above/around the 170 mark which takes you out of the ph3/708 range although its still capable of making this on ethose cams)

i never mentioned anything being set in stone either!, i also stated ppl will have x or y results on x or x set ups, im merely stating what most ppl will regard as being reliable/unreliable to someone whos asked!!!

which is why i stated uprated internals, and the fact both are equally unreliable after certain power, most ppl will spend more to compensate for this and be prepared not to ruin decent engines by skimping out :clapping:

and finally who said anything about an "unsympathetic driver" a standard 1.1 wont last long with an unsympathetic driver

but thanks for pointing out the obvious :y:

[Dave_P]

Would you like a spade?

[blackie_2k5]

quality reply mate :clapping:

[Dave_P]

http://www.simbles.com/images2003/19656721.JPG

:)

[blackie_2k5]

they say a pic sais a thousand words....... yet your statement and pics shows nothing..... pull it apart mate, you pulled my statement apart, i answerd, pull what ive said again apart?

[Krys_23]

Draper spade too, no cheap shit being offered from Dave_P, lol.

[Tufty]

Class posts. Lets take money out of it here, why? because to get into this sorta game you have to have some sort of cash.

Daily drive? fun around town? i would go for a nice low boost set up. why?
Because you can play with "senseable power" and just have fun. Anything bigger then your going to have problems.
- Lag
- more running costs

N/A.... you can have an n/a car as a daily drive yh, but then its depends how hardcore you want to go and how much bhp your after.
I can imagine ph3 and bodies is an awesome drive but then you could have a low boost set up and still have fun. However, track wise and sprints in my opinion a high powered N/A is more suitable, boosted FWD hatch backs are very hard to drive with big power on a track, and then you have the problem with what size turbo?

Anyways before i make mountains out of mole hills, shop around, learn, then make your choice.

[Dave_P]

Draper spade too, no cheap shit being offered from Dave_P, lol.

Its a stainless steel spade... good for digging holes dont you know. ;)

[blackie_2k5]

Its a stainless steel spade... good for digging holes dont you know. ;)

justify digging holes :y:

[Mieran]

Turbo.

[chinkostu]

it all depends, i loved my mates punto gt as when it came on boost it was a kick in the teeth! personally though i'm torn between the two, both need similar places to start for a good base (better internals, standalone ecu) but the main good point about the turbo is you can get it mapped then if you want try and up the boost pressure until you have it sitting nicely. once you've played with the bodies, cammed and put a decent exhaust on, theres not much left to do really!

[loudandproud205]

http://www.simbles.com/images2003/19656721.JPG

:)

Goes like shit of a shiny shovel :p

[dannygti]

you are missin what turbo lag is. even when a turbo is spinning and you have boost it take a long time to speed up and slow down. this is the lag. the more boost the more lag you get.

i know what turbo lag is old chap :D

thats response not lag,turbo engines are generally unresponsive you know this, i dont think an unresponsive engine is a bad engine, you have all that grunt to make up for it.

[Dave_P]

i said you can get up to 230bhp before you start worrying about drievtrain issues, as plenty ppl have, i never said anything would be gearbox friendly did i.

You appear to be contradicting yourself... FYI the gearbox is part of the drive train... :y:

i also said once above 160bhp your going to be revving high, i never said anything about running 708s at a slightly uprated rev limit, (although it may be worth noting by above 160bhp i meant above/around the 170 mark which takes you out of the ph3/708 range although its still capable of making this on ethose cams)


Above 160bhp is 161-169bhp. if you meant 170bhp or more you'd of said 170bhp or more.
If you want to run 160+ bhp n/a the fitting of 708's or similar would be required along with bodies & breathing mods etc assuming the pistons & head are std.

If you want to run larger cams you'd need to mod the pistons or buy aftermarket ones, i dont know if the OP is wanting to do that or what his budget is.

My old engine made 166bhp @ 7600rpm on 708's & Jenvey dcoe style bodies, thats not high reving and it was a reliable hillclimb car... even the gearbox was reliable.

Here's a ladder for you. :)

http://www.jvwisdom.com/uploads/images/ladder.gif

[AXracing]

At .75 bar I have seen relatively standard Saxos be reliable for years even when doing track day and quarter mile work. Biggest issue is the clutch at even this relatively low level of boost. If you are a plonker you could blow the diff apart as well. But then you can do it on a normally aspirated 1.4 if you really try. You could reasonably happily run 1 bar if your being sensible. If you have no self control and are unable to not drive like a nut then you could easily add some electronics to help. The obvious would be a dynamic electronic boost controller. Or even a basic tc system would help stop you blowing diffs. Personally I would just rebuild the box with with a stronger diff and use a good quality clutch. The lug drive kit GMC used to sell worked very well. Think he has come iup with an even better system these days. Just don't be tempted to stick great big wheels on the car if your turbo charging as this is a recopy for disaster.

There us an added advantage to bust. That is that you can make a perfectly usable road car. That only goes insane when you want it to. With a wild normally aspirated engine you very quickly get issues with mot gas test and even just generally slow speed driveability. With a normally aspirated engine you want low and close ratios. So if you to spend the cash to get a gearbox that works well with a wilder engine it very quickly becomes poor for long distance road miles. All this is why boost is becoming the norm for production cars.

That said I still like normally aspirated power more :p

[blackie_2k5]

i may have slightly contradicted myself there quoting you yes, BUT no one mentioned the cars bein ragged allover, and without budget etc we have to assume this is all in a perfect world, i said you could... and many have get up to 230bhp before having to worry about drivetrain issues,

you said thats crap, please back up your statement...... yes the clutch wil need to be replaced as it wont take that power, but im assuming in my statement everything is being done to a decent quality and not being bodged togther hit and hope sort of thing

i also stated once you start delving ABOVE 160bhp N/A you will start revving higher/using wilder cams, i mentioned this because i used that as my base point in the oringinal post stating quite clearly you could get to 160 bhp and have a reliable car....... but once you start aiming above that power is when you will start to incurr reliability .... i later backed this up stating ther will be plenty x and y cases where ppl have achieved more or less from diff set ups and still be reliable, many hav achieved up to 170ish with the set up you posted, but beyond that is wilder cams and higher revs limits etc..... as posted im staing commonly known/believed ideals

you also said this is also crap, yes i may have been a big vaugue by only stating above 160bhp..... but then seeing what i posted in the first sentence about 160 N/A being a reliabale set up and comparing with 230bhp on a turbo set up..... most would guess i meant somewhere inbetween those figures ;)

also your post about being between 160bhp is 161-169 made me literally LOL...... so by your theory if i want selling a car for £1200 and someone asked is it over a grand? and i say yes..... by you logic it can only be £1001-1009? i dont think so mate, i think its you who needs a ladder :clapping:

[Dave_P]

We dont live in a perfect world & everyone has a budget... stop trying to explain your way out it, your earlier comment was crap end of.

[CarlosVT]

Thank you for all the replies guys, really appreciate all the info! It's hard to choose really, a lot of people think turbo are best, others think N/A is the way forward. I should of explained properly in my first post and made it a bit clearer.

I'm looking for a good, reliable daily driver that I can also have fun with, I don't plan in going too crazy e.g. 200+ bhp. If I had a bodies set up running around 160 - 170bhp I'd be happy.

I think I could easily achieve that with the sort of set up Dave_P recommended..

I'd say go for bodies, a sandy inlet & GSX R1000 TB's and KMS ECU & adapter for plug & play from QEP would be the most cost effective option, add 708 cat cams & raceland/saxport for 165-170bhp... a quaife atb diff would top things off nicely. :)

What sort of money would I be looking for a set up like that mate?

Again, appreciate all the comments so far and everyone's views. Any more comments/opinions are welcome :y:

[ashw106rallye]

Thank you for all the replies guys, really appreciate all the info! It's hard to choose really, a lot of people think turbo are best, others think N/A is the way forward. I should of explained properly in my first post and made it a bit clearer.

I'm looking for a good, reliable daily driver that I can also have fun with, I don't plan in going too crazy e.g. 200+ bhp. If I had a bodies set up running around 160 - 170bhp I'd be happy.

I think I could easily achieve that with the sort of set up Dave_P recommended..



What sort of money would I be looking for a set up like that mate?

Again, appreciate all the comments so far and everyone's views. Any more comments/opinions are welcome :y:

yea mate wot dave p sead wud be a good setup :) dave p's 16v rallye is fukin awsome :)

[Dave_P]

What sort of money would I be looking for a set up like that mate?

Sandy's inlet kit £500
Air filter £40+
GSX R1000 K1-3 TB's £80-£150 (ebay)
708 cat cams £200-£300 (used or new)
VEMS/KMS P&P management £400-£800+ (used or new)
Mapping £200+
Manifold & system fitted already? (Raceland/supersprint 4-2-1 & saxsport)

Quaife ATB equipped gearbox: £380-£700 (used or newly fitted in refurbed box)

Prob be a few other bits n bobs required.


Fitting? Are you handy with spanners? If not i'm sure someone locally off here would do it for you.

[blackie_2k5]

We dont live in a perfect world & everyone has a budget... stop trying to explain your way out it, your earlier comment was crap end of.

and we dont live in a world full of unsympathetic drivers either.... although there are many

and yet you still havent backed up your statements?.....and it doesnt look like your going to......so ok mate, you win :homme: i cba to argue

[ashw106rallye]

and we dont live in a world full of unsympathetic drivers either.... although there are many

and yet you still havent backed up your statements?.....and it doesnt look like your going to......so ok mate, you win :homme: i cba to argue

wtf is your problem?

[blackie_2k5]

wtf is your problem?

i dont have a problem, do you?

[ashw106rallye]

i dont have a problem, do you?

nope just duno why you keep havin ago at dave?

[blackie_2k5]

nope just duno why you keep havin ago at dave?

im not having a go mate, he made some statements on the previous page and tried to be clever about something i posted, hes since carried on to do so but still hasnt backed up his statements.... its now over as far im concerned :y:

[ashw106rallye]

ok dude lol

[dannygti]

enough of this bickering lol



ANYWAY, turbo's will always be awesome, boddies will always sound awesome and homochargers will ....errr...???

[stevo1600]

if i were you mate id defo go turbo and do the works on yur saxo, as you have had 4 you are obviously gunna want as much power as yu can squeeze out of it with reliabilty at hand.

Go the forged internals route, decent branded parts, with stand alone Ecu. And thoroughly do your research into turbo set ups. if you can build most of it yourself you will have more power than TBs. infact a hell of alot more, but with more power comes reliabilty issues, but even at say 230 bhp its still gunna be reliable aswel as a very fast car. as said b4 turbos increase bhp aswel as gearbox eating torque, so gearbox, driveshafts, clutch etc would need to be upgraded as well as balancing your cars handling and braking + safety for obv reasons.

upgrading one part of your car, generally requires another part to also be upgraded. bear that in mind.:drink:

[Ross]

£9-10k on a TB setup will get you somewhere around 200bhp, give or take. Spend the same on a boosted setup and you'll clear 350bhp. Sure there are some differences in the delivery, but once you've been punched in the face by 30psi, you'll never look back ;)

[Dave_P]

£9-10k on a TB setup will get you somewhere around 200bhp, give or take

£9-10k for 200bhp, aye right! You'd have several thousand £ left over.
Come on Ross, I thought you'd know better.

[KamRacing]

you would be able to run a stroker kit as well for £10k.

[Ross]

you would be able to run a stroker kit as well for £10k.

Can you still supply these? I spoke to DP on Friday and they said they no longer make them (and havne't made them for 6 months+).


£9-10k for 200bhp, aye right! You'd have several thousand £ left over.
Come on Ross, I thought you'd know better.

I do know better :p I'm taking it to the extreme: £10k that engine cost...
http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?79124-Jenvey-Throttle-Bodied-Gti-Aero-Catches-Fitted-Track-Pics-Pic-Heavy!&p=1789355&viewfull=1#post1789355

[LeeM]

Twincharger gets my vote.

[wolf_gsxr]

sandy inlet 500
gsxr bodies 150
pred 500
assuming you already have full system and induction how does that add up to 10k?

[Ross]

sandy inlet 500
gsxr bodies 150
pred 500
assuming you already have full system and induction how does that add up to 10k?

No idea. I didn't spend it :p Ask him ;)

For starters, there's an omex 600, plus race loom, plus mapping. There's £1,500 not £500. Forged internals - add another £1,000. Solid lifters - add £1500 for those...

[KamRacing]

Can you still supply these? I spoke to DP on Friday and they said they no longer make them (and havne't made them for 6 months+).




I do know better :p I'm taking it to the extreme: £10k that engine cost...
http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?79124-Jenvey-Throttle-Bodied-Gti-Aero-Catches-Fitted-Track-Pics-Pic-Heavy!&p=1789355&viewfull=1#post1789355

Basically DP seem to be reluctant to make the cranks anymore. We can get them from Cat Cams now so we are waiting on confirmation of price.

Kev

[AndySAXO]

sandy inlet 500
gsxr bodies 150
pred 500
assuming you already have full system and induction how does that add up to 10k?

That just a basically price once you start changing the internals it get expensives, to use soild lifter you will be spending alot foe head work, also depends on other factors like what valve he using as you can get very expensive ones.

Not looked at the link but I am guess it will the best of everything, I know longmans engine used to be very expensive. Not sure on the price but close to 10k

[AndySAXO]

P.s I know that car, it over 10k due to changing cams since it was biult, but very impressive, I know of one other Saxo that has been biult and dyno at NMS which got 202 bhp on there dyno.

Both using ph5 cams.

[Dave_P]

Solid lifters - add £1500 for those...

WTF! £300-£400 for solids.

[CarlosVT]

Sandy's inlet kit £500
Air filter £40+
GSX R1000 K1-3 TB's £80-£150 (ebay)
708 cat cams £200-£300 (used or new)
VEMS/KMS P&P management £400-£800+ (used or new)
Mapping £200+
Manifold & system fitted already? (Raceland/supersprint 4-2-1 & saxsport)

Quaife ATB equipped gearbox: £380-£700 (used or newly fitted in refurbed box)

Prob be a few other bits n bobs required.


Fitting? Are you handy with spanners? If not i'm sure someone locally off here would do it for you.

Thank you for that mate, really appreciate it :y: I'm not the best with spanners so I'll probably need a hand to do it!

£9-10k on a TB setup will get you somewhere around 200bhp, give or take. Spend the same on a boosted setup and you'll clear 350bhp. Sure there are some differences in the delivery, but once you've been punched in the face by 30psi, you'll never look back ;)

Like I said, don't plan in going too crazy mate as it will only be a daily driver which I can have a bit of fun with :) thanks for the input though!

WTF! £300-£400 for solids.

That's what I was thinking? :geek:

[KamRacing]

chasing bhp with revs ultimately gets expensive as you have to upgrade the head to cope as well as the bottom end. You need to change the capacity of the engine to be over 200bhp and comfortable on the road. You either get a stroker kit or change the volumetric efficiency using forced induction, as you can use milder cams to get similar power results.

[sexy_gt]

just spent

£275 on cat 708
£150 pico 330cc inj
£10 3.5 fpr
£470 pred
£900 atp bodies
£140 itg filter

total £1945. i have saved on labour by fitting the cams and will be fitting the rest of it myself later this week. mapping saturday :panic:

all bought brand new est 160bhp give or take (dyno depending). but not that fussed on figures as long as it goes plenty :y:

quite affordable to do bodies. wouldnt want to pay several thousands more on an extra 40hp on top just to crack the magic 200hpeveryone bangs on about. i expect a 160brake saxo with good spec to be untouchable on an average trackday.

must admit im supprised more people havnt brought S/C into the thread. not as much control over a turbo mid corner as N/A or S/C.

i will S/C my car if i feel the bodie route isnt enough.

[CarlosVT]

just spent

£275 on cat 708
£150 pico 330cc inj
£10 3.5 fpr
£470 pred
£900 atp bodies
£140 itg filter

total £1945. i have saved on labour by fitting the cams and will be fitting the rest of it myself later this week. mapping saturday :panic:

all bought brand new est 160bhp give or take (dyno depending). but not that fussed on figures as long as it goes plenty :y:

quite affordable to do bodies. wouldnt want to pay several thousands more on an extra 40hp on top just to crack the magic 200hpeveryone bangs on about. i expect a 160brake saxo with good spec to be untouchable on an average trackday.

must admit im supprised more people havnt brought S/C into the thread. not as much control over a turbo mid corner as N/A or S/C.

i will S/C my car if i feel the bodie route isnt enough.

Thanks for the input mate! Exactly the same sort of set up I'm looking for and also the sort of power I'm looking for! Not too bothered about bhp as long as the car goes well! :)

[Ross]

WTF! £300-£400 for solids.

Plus a day to dial them in correctly at £45-60 per hour (+ vat).

[Tufty]

Plus a day to dial them in correctly at £45-60 per hour (+ vat).

This is what put me off PH5 cams! shims and solid lifters! all expensive, and need replacing after a few k or something...

[AndySAXO]

wouldnt be all day, i got a quote for some solid followers fitted and shim correctly to ph5 cams and wanst 1500 quid.

[Ross]

wouldnt be all day, i got a quote for some solid followers fitted and shim correctly to ph5 cams and wanst 1500 quid.

Yeah I had the figure wrong. At Speed quoted £1000 (ish - so read more in all likelihood) to supply and fit solid lifters. Not £1500. However, still a lot of money.

It all adds up. Same with boosted builds. Everyone seems to harp on about being able to do it on the cheap. Well, not a reliable one you cant. Even jubilee clips will set you back about £75 for the decent ones... It all adds up to a large bill :p

[AndySAXO]

yer it does cost alot... but it depends on who you know ;)

[Ross]

yer it does cost alot... but it depends on who you know ;)

Solid lifters aren't needed anyway :p

Can make 300bhp without em. Which is more than enough for a road going 106 or saxo :D

[AndySAXO]

i ent talking about boost that cheating :P haha

[Ryan]

sandy inlet 500
gsxr bodies 150
pred 500
assuming you already have full system and induction how does that add up to 10k?

not a 200bhp engine though is it NA.

For example the bottom end/head on my engine cost built by QEP circa 5k. You then have the bodies/ecu/mapping and its easy to see why costs spiral. Its easy to spend 1k on bodies, another 1k-1500 on an ecu + mapping (depending on if its being hard wired) So that gives you 7.5k there before even looking at the exhaust and manifold.

Espec if you dont do it on the cheap with old bike bodies.

[raunchz]

+ the cost of a gearbox to make best use of a 200bhp+ NA engine

[Ryan]

+ the cost of a gearbox to make best use of a 200bhp+ NA engine

that makes it more like a 15k build lol.

Although mine didnt run to bad with the s2box and diff

[evensteven]

Are you able to supply a stroker kit again yet Kev?



A Boosted setup is always going to be harsher on drivetrain components than a similar budget N/A build.

Due to the greater amount of torque being acheived.

Simple.

[Dave_P]

Yeah I had the figure wrong. At Speed quoted £1000 (ish - so read more in all likelihood) to supply and fit solid lifters. Not £1500. However, still a lot of money.

I think your speaking to the wrong company, maybe try phoning Matt @ QEP?

[Ross]

Are you able to supply a stroker kit again yet Kev?



A Boosted setup is always going to be harsher on drivetrain components than a similar budget N/A build.

Due to the greater amount of torque being acheived.

Simple.

Steve. I'm in PM's with Kev about this mate. Already mentioned you and Titch will be on board with me if/when the time comes.

[Ross]

I think your speaking to the wrong company, maybe try phoning Matt @ QEP?

Trust me - I don't deal with At Speed anymore lol. I'd rather burn my cock off.

[hard_corejoeboy]

Depends what you want-you don't buy a saxo to go fast in a straight line.
For the amount you could spend you could buy an Impreza. Hell you could buy a Supra!

Decide what you want and then make a decision.
I decided i like going fast round corners and generally hussling more expensive cars so my mods have been done to do this. My engine is virtually standard and at present its more than enough for me! Bearing in mind i have driven a 911 GT3, 360, Impreza STI and a Gallardo!

[hard_corejoeboy]

Trust me - I don't deal with At Speed anymore lol. I'd rather burn my cock off.

+1 to that

[Ryan]

Trust me - I don't deal with At Speed anymore lol. I'd rather burn my cock off.

lol...

Is that because you dont run/want to run omex. ;)

[evensteven]

[QUOTE=hard_corejoeboy;5080340]Depends what you want-you don't buy a saxo to go fast in a straight line.
For the amount you could spend you could buy an Impreza. Hell you could buy a Supra!

QUOTE]

Some people do buy a 106/saxo to go fast in a straight line though. Its not really your place to say that is it :P

For the amount you could spend.. yes you could buy one of those.

However they wouldn't be anywhere as quick or fun.

I personall own an Evo 8 as the daily runner and my 106 is much more fun.. and faster in everyway. and I love it for that :oops:

[Ross]

[QUOTE=hard_corejoeboy;5080340]Depends what you want-you don't buy a saxo to go fast in a straight line.
For the amount you could spend you could buy an Impreza. Hell you could buy a Supra!

QUOTE]

Some people do buy a 106/saxo to go fast in a straight line though. Its not really your place to say that is it :P

For the amount you could spend.. yes you could buy one of those.

However they wouldn't be anywhere as quick or fun.

I personall own an Evo 8 as the daily runner and my 106 is much more fun.. and faster in everyway. and I love it for that :oops:

Agreed. I'd far rather have a 106 that shits on evo's and m3's leaving them with a look of "WTF?" any day of the week. :)

lol...

Is that because you dont run/want to run omex. ;)


Actually, I do run omex lol. Ironically, bought from them... ;)

[KamRacing]

I think your speaking to the wrong company, maybe try phoning Matt @ QEP?

Matt folded up the business and works for Cat Cams now...

[hard_corejoeboy]

[QUOTE=hard_corejoeboy;5080340]Depends what you want-you don't buy a saxo to go fast in a straight line.
For the amount you could spend you could buy an Impreza. Hell you could buy a Supra!

QUOTE]

Some people do buy a 106/saxo to go fast in a straight line though. Its not really your place to say that is it :P

For the amount you could spend.. yes you could buy one of those.

However they wouldn't be anywhere as quick or fun.

I personall own an Evo 8 as the daily runner and my 106 is much more fun.. and faster in everyway. and I love it for that :oops:

Well it is my place as the guy wants advice :p You could go 170mph in a standard supra if you really wanted to go fast in a straight line. Personally i don't think saxo's strengths are straight line ability they are much more fun in the corners..

[Dave_P]

Matt folded up the business and works for Cat Cams now...

Phone Matt @ Cat cams UK then. :)

[axsaxoman]

once you start talking about 200bhp on n/a it is not usable road car and will cost more than a boosted car to give you same or more bhp and you can drive it to work every day
no need fro c/r g/box to get the best out a boosted car either --but an lsd should be high on your list for any car where cornering at high speed is the aim

[CarlosVT]

Depends what you want-you don't buy a saxo to go fast in a straight line.
For the amount you could spend you could buy an Impreza. Hell you could buy a Supra!

Decide what you want and then make a decision.
I decided i like going fast round corners and generally hussling more expensive cars so my mods have been done to do this. My engine is virtually standard and at present its more than enough for me! Bearing in mind i have driven a 911 GT3, 360, Impreza STI and a Gallardo!



Well it is my place as the guy wants advice :p You could go 170mph in a standard supra if you really wanted to go fast in a straight line. Personally i don't think saxo's strengths are straight line ability they are much more fun in the corners..

I can see exactly where you're coming from mate. That's what I'm aiming for. I don't want to spend more than 2.5k on a throttle bodies set up. I just want a reliable set up, which goes well and I can have fun with and drive everyday :)

once you start talking about 200bhp on n/a it is not usable road car and will cost more than a boosted car to give you same or more bhp and you can drive it to work every day
no need fro c/r g/box to get the best out a boosted car either --but an lsd should be high on your list for any car where cornering at high speed is the aim

I see what you mean. Hence why I don't want to go for silly power as it will only be a daily driver. I want something that will look good and goes well too. Not really aiming for silly amounts of power :y:

[Dave_P]

an lsd should be high on your list for any car where cornering at high speed is the aim

I mentioned that on page 2, keep up! :bump:

Why does everyone keep going on about 200bhp n/a when carlosvt has stated several times he doesn't want that... :ponder:

[hard_corejoeboy]

If your not aiming for silly amounts of power just go 4-2-1, exhaust, throttle bodies.
Then sort your brakes and suspension. A good driver in a standard vts should be able 'to go well'

[maddison_vts]

for pretty much the same cost of throttle bodies you can get a low boost set up and see more power and a hell of a lot more torque.

with low boost, strain on the transmission isn't too large and as a road car is far better.

itb's are great for track but not so great for road imo.

[hard_corejoeboy]

You can do tb's on the cheap...

Predator ecu around £500
GSXR1000 Bodies
Sandy Inlet and you are good to go no?

[Ryan]

once you start talking about 200bhp on n/a it is not usable road car and will cost more than a boosted car to give you same or more bhp and you can drive it to work every day


Personally i didnt find any problems using it as a daily and that was whilst living in london. Other than the fact someone had ripped the heater out :wall:

My clio was off the road so had to use it and didnt really think cripes i need the clio back asap

[maddison_vts]

You can do tb's on the cheap...

Predator ecu around £500
GSXR1000 Bodies
Sandy Inlet and you are good to go no?

likewise for a diy turbo kit and still see more power...

[axsaxoman]

see our latest offer.
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359877,
add a pred to that and it would be a perfect everyday car

[axsaxoman]

I mentioned that on page 2, keep up! :bump:

Why does everyone keep going on about 200bhp n/a when carlosvt has stated several times he doesn't want that... :ponder:

quite so --but i notice you didn,t tell him the cheapest place to buy one --LOL,

[hard_corejoeboy]

Great price! What about without cams?

[evensteven]

Hardcorehoe boy... you said 'you don't buy a saxo/106 to go fast in a straight line.'

That's not advice now is it.


'170mph in a standard supra' Going fast in a straight line isn't always about Top speed.

You might get 170mph in one.... but it would take bloody ages to get there. And the boosted pug/sax would be long gone in the distance x

[maddison_vts]

Hardcorehoe boy... you said 'you don't buy a saxo/106 to go fast in a straight line.'

You might get 170mph in one.... but it would take bloody ages to get there. And the boosted pug/sax would be long gone in the distance x

i'd rather be driving a twin turbo manual supra than a boosted french tin can...

keep in mind that power to weight isn't a massive thing when already travelling at speed, outright power and torque is. combined with drag.


and comparing a saxo or 106 to twin turbo supra, come on. there isn't anything to compare.

[Ross]

and comparing a saxo or 106 to twin turbo supra, come on. there isn't anything to compare.

Your right. A decent spec 106 turbo will shit on a supra on the road. ;)

[maddison_vts]

Your right. A decent spec 106 turbo will shit on a supra on the road. ;)

spend half what was spent on the 106 on the supra, then see what happens.;)

[Ross]

spend half what was spent on the 106 on the supra, then see what happens.;)

Don't know how you'd get a supra up to circa 600bhp on half the money a well specc'd 106 costs myself. Twin turbo supra is 330bhp standard. Where you gonna get the other 300bhp from for £3k? And you'd NEED 600+bhp... You can thank the lardy Toyota for that. 1550kgs vs the 106 at 800kgs. ;)

I'd far rather be in the 106 on the road, down the twisties or on the dual carrageway. Fair enough, on the motorway at 3am it's game over for the 106 unless the 106 is geared right.

[maddison_vts]

Don't know how you'd get a supra up to circa 600bhp on half the money a well specc'd 106 costs myself. Twin turbo supra is 330bhp standard. Where you gonna get the other 300bhp from for £3k? And you'd NEED 600+bhp... You can thank the lardy Toyota for that. 1550kgs vs the 106 at 800kgs. ;)

I'd far rather be in the 106 on the road, down the twisties or on the dual carrageway. Fair enough, on the motorway at 3am it's game over for the 106 unless the 106 is geared right.

you're tellling me you need a 600bhp+ supra to beat a 106/saxo turbo? get a grip. If that was the case, drag strips and tracks would be dominated by saxo's and 106's. the reality is, they aren't! power to weight is great but when something has outright power there isn't a contest. to second to that, the supra can put the power down properly. a standard 106 gti weighs closer to 950kg too. and a supra weighs in at 1450kg.

[Ross]

you're tellling me you need a 600bhp+ supra to beat a 106/saxo turbo? get a grip. If that was the case, drag strips and tracks would be dominated by saxo's and 106's. the reality is, they aren't! power to weight is great but when something has outright power there isn't a contest. to second to that, the supra can put the power down properly. a standard 106 gti weighs closer to 950kg too. and a supra weighs in at 1450kg.

I'll rephrase with clarity for you. :)

My 106 will shit on a (for example) 400bhp supra. And a standard 106 may be 950kgs, but a "well spec'd" one would be closer to 800. The supra weighs 1550 according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Supra#Mark_IV_.281993.E2.80.932002.29)

I've not come up against anything with more than 500bhp yet, so time will tell. :)

Depends on the time and the place. Wet drag launch, the supra takes it - no question. Top speed, the supra takes it, no problem. 50-120mph for example in the dry? Game over for the 400odd bhp supra. :)

[AXracing]

I don't really know how fast a 400bhp or 600bhp supra is but I have seen a relatively basic saxo turbo using a standard bottom end and head apart from it had two head gaskets fitted to lower the compression. It had a standard gearbox as well. Fuelling was from a 5th injector controlled by an MF2 and SigCon3. It did sub 13 second quarter miles. Think it's quickest run was 12.8 second.

[hard_corejoeboy]

I'd rather buy a 106 yes but lets be honest, go on another forum and people will laugh at you for comparing a saxo to a supra!

Saxo/106 is a great rally/hillclimb/track car. They aren't straightline monsters and they aren't meant to be. Hell you could make an MG Metro faster than a supra but for the same money??

I love saxo/106's but i think you'll find in Japan they are modding supras to ridiculous levels squeezing more power than you ever could ever dream of in a saxo.

Anyways back on topic. Make the saxo a weapon that you will enjoy. Like i said mine is probably running just over standard power..and i've destroyed all sorts in it! Just have fun and don't spend too much money. Simple effective mods are where its at if you ask me.

[Ross]

I've been in a 480bhp skyline, and a 520bhp porsche. They're probably the most powerful cars I've ever been in so far. No question at all they were DAMN quick. But so's a 350bhp+ 106. As as I harp on about power to weight, only got to look at dave_p on the RR - runs a non-boosted NA 1.6 106 rallye and is getting 12.7 sec quarters. Just from low weight :)

For example - 450bhp twin turbo supra - http://www.dragtimes.com/Toyota-Supra-Timeslip-16781.html - 1/4 in 12.8. That'd suck to get pipped on the 1/4 mile by a S1 106 rallye eh? ;)

[AndySAXO]

Who wants to be straight line hero anyway? Seriously boring 1/4 mile rubbish, I enjoy watch a car handle well watch it all work as one, instead of a car just going in a straight line!!

[Ryan]

I love saxo/106's but i think you'll find in Japan they are modding supras to ridiculous levels squeezing more power than you ever could ever dream of in a saxo.
.

One thing that you seem to have missed here is that its in japan. Geographically its alot more economical for them to owning Jap cars than european ones.

[Ross]

Who wants to be straight line hero anyway? Seriously boring 1/4 mile rubbish, I enjoy watch a car handle well watch it all work as one, instead of a car just going in a straight line!!

Each to their own. I've built a track car, but track is not what I will be doing the most of this year. Just because you don't like the 1/4 mile doesn't mean other people don't eh? :)

[AXracing]

They aren't straightline monsters and they aren't meant to be. Hell you could make an MG Metro faster than a supra but for the same money??

You may get a shock. This is the results from a Straightliners event.

Grant Parker Audi Quatro 2.2Ltr 11.28
Ian Walley Cortina Mk II 11.60
Richard White EVO 6 2 Ltr 11.99
Mark Beales Mitsubishi GTO 3 Ltr 12.30
Scott Parker Impreza 2 Ltr 12.36
Monkey Mark Toyota Supra 3 Ltr 12.53
Steven Darley Imppreza 2 Ltr 12.64
Andy Ncholls Rover 220 2.1 Ltr 12.68
Simon Leeks Citroen Saxo 1587cc 12.88 Standard engine and box with mf2 fuelling
Paul Robson Impreza WRX 2 Ltr 12.93
Micky Owens Impreza WRX 2 Ltr 13.06
Steve Carr Impreza 2 Ltr Turbo 13.14
Micky Owens Impreza WRX 2 Ltr 13.17
Martin Metcalfe Impreza 2 Ltr 13.25
Steve Carr Impreza 2 Ltr Turbo 13.34
Yuk Shek Impreza 2 Ltr 13.61
Paul Hopwood Impreza 2 Ltr 13.64
Peter Varey Impreza WRX 2 Ltr 13.67
Steven Dodsworth Impreza Terzo 13.90
Harvey Smith Impreza WRX 2 Ltr 13.98
Marc Edison Impreza Turbo 2 Ltr 13.99
Richard Thorpe Impreza 2 Ltr 13.99
Taj Daems Impreza Turbo 2 Ltr 13.99
Marc Edison Impreza Turbo 2 Ltr 14.00
Paul Hopwood Impreza 2 Ltr 14.01
Aaron Chan Impreza WRX 2 Ltr 14.24

[hard_corejoeboy]

You'll notice the saxo is a fluke in that list...the are mainly all subaru's and there's also another oddball-the cortina. I love saxo's i really do but they aren't quite a GT3 RS so just enjoy them for what they are!

[Dave_P]

i notice you didn,t tell him the cheapest place to buy one --LOL,

I thought that'd be obvious, :ponder: the cheapest place to buy one is eBay or keep an eye out on the saxo/106 forums for one bought as part of a group buy and not fitted.

I recently saw a Quaife'd vts box sell on eBay for £380, bargain! :y:

[Ross]

You'll notice the saxo is a fluke in that list...the are mainly all subaru's and there's also another oddball-the cortina. I love saxo's i really do but they aren't quite a GT3 RS so just enjoy them for what they are!

I do enjoy my 106 :) it's a weapon for punishing Subarus and Supras with :)

[hard_corejoeboy]

I do enjoy my 106 :) it's a weapon for punishing Subarus and Supras with :)

Everyone loves an underdog but to be fair if i'd have spent the money i have on the saxo on say a subaru (with the right mods and the right planning!) it would be raaaapido! lol

Never getting rid of my sax :D

[axsaxoman]

I thought that'd be obvious, :ponder: the cheapest place to buy one is eBay or keep an eye out on the saxo/106 forums for one bought as part of a group buy and not fitted.

I recently saw a Quaife'd vts box sell on eBay for £380, bargain! :y:

I suppose I should have expected such a reply from you -
but when they cannot find a s/h unit --or want one now --you know no -one will beat my prices for new parts with a warranty

[Ross]

I suppose I should have expected such a reply from you -
but when they cannot find a s/h unit --or want one now --you know no -one will beat my prices for new parts with a warranty

Three company plugs in someone elses thread already John? Take it steady now or we'll have to rename this thread :p

[hard_corejoeboy]

lol it worked i want his bodies! Well after a cage and wideband of course!

[Dave_P]

I suppose I should have expected such a reply from you -

Indeed, a straight answer on how saxo/106 owners can get the most for there hard earned money.

Can we get back on topic now?

[axsaxoman]

Three company plugs in someone elses thread already John? Take it steady now or we'll have to rename this thread :p
i get on asked these sort of questions all the time in posts ,when they could lookat the webiste and find the info , so just trying to be proactive rather than reactive ,and i have paid to be an affiliate -unlikealotof people doing simlar posts on here.
but yes point taken

[axsaxoman]

Everyone loves an underdog but to be fair if i'd have spent the money i have on the saxo on say a subaru (with the right mods and the right planning!) it would be raaaapido! lol

Never getting rid of my sax :D
yes it might be quick ,but you would be doing 12 mpg or less when hammered ,and maybe you mift see 30 if your very lucky on a run+ tyres ever other week --running costs of scobbies+ evo,s are very big ,even when just chugging about.
i,m sure you have friends who bought a scoobie or an old evo and ripped up the tarmac for the first two weeks and then just crept about the town or sat in the car park and posed in them -just due to running costs,
you think a tuned saxo is expensive --jsut ask the soobie or evo boys about costs

[hard_corejoeboy]

This is true. I would like a 200bhp/tonne saxo really as the new focus rs only has 203 bhp tonne i believe? Should be quite easy too as 160bhp and 800kg of weight = 200bhp/tonne

That could be a good thing to aim for for a fun fast road car.

[maddison_vts]

in the theory of 'power to weight', my saxo would rinse a 430bhp r32 GTR skyline. In reality, it won't. The skyline would wipe the floor with me.

Some of you guys need to get it into your heads that a saxo/106 won't beat big powered cars just because you don't weigh as much.

A good friend of mine has a 420bhp evo 6, on power to weight and transmission loss again I should be quicker but i'm not.

To add to this, as said previous about '600bhp supras' they are built to take such power, the standard transmission is hench, the 2JZ engine is hench, the driving experience is fantastic and running a supra with such power will be so much more reliable than running a french bag of poo around the roads (to add to it you don't get laughed at by everybody on the roads like you do in a chavvy french hatch) You won't have issues with snapping clutch cables, bending clutch arms, splitting gearbox cases and blowing diffs and you won't have to have group n or even harder engine mounts so you can hear yourself think in it. On top of all this, a car with half the power and half the weight still wouldn't be quicker than it. It may keep with it to a certain point but that will be it.

hardcorejoeboy - make your saxo 160bhp, strip it to 800kg, then go and race a mk2 focus rs. You won't win.

In short what i'm trying to say is, yes you may make a little french hatch quicker or as quick as a standard sports car but you will never make it a better car.

[KamRacing]

in the theory of 'power to weight', my saxo would rinse a 430bhp r32 GTR skyline. In reality, it won't. The skyline would wipe the floor with me.

Some of you guys need to get it into your heads that a saxo/106 won't beat big powered cars just because you don't weigh as much.

A good friend of mine has a 420bhp evo 6, on power to weight and transmission loss again I should be quicker but i'm not.

To add to this, as said previous about '600bhp supras' they are built to take such power, the standard transmission is hench, the 2JZ engine is hench, the driving experience is fantastic and running a supra with such power will be so much more reliable than running a french bag of poo around the roads (to add to it you don't get laughed at by everybody on the roads like you do in a chavvy french hatch) You won't have issues with snapping clutch cables, bending clutch arms, splitting gearbox cases and blowing diffs and you won't have to have group n or even harder engine mounts so you can hear yourself think in it. On top of all this, a car with half the power and half the weight still wouldn't be quicker than it. It may keep with it to a certain point but that will be it.

hardcorejoeboy - make your saxo 160bhp, strip it to 800kg, then go and race a mk2 focus rs. You won't win.

In short what i'm trying to say is, yes you may make a little french hatch quicker or as quick as a standard sports car but you will never make it a better car.

I'm basing my race car on lightweight rather than power to weight. A small engine does not punch through the air as easily so an engine with more power will have a higher top speed, but a lightweight car corners, accelerates (up to a point) and brakes faster. I'll be against BMW M3's with 350bhp with under 200bhp but its the time over a whole lap that really matters. I estimate that theres three tracks in the uk where I might have a disadvantage.

Kev

[CarlosVT]

Thanks for all the input so far guys, this thread has got more attention than I was expecting! lol There's seem to be a lot of discussion going on!

If your not aiming for silly amounts of power just go 4-2-1, exhaust, throttle bodies.
Then sort your brakes and suspension. A good driver in a standard vts should be able 'to go well'

That's exactly the sort of set up I had in mind mate :)

for pretty much the same cost of throttle bodies you can get a low boost set up and see more power and a hell of a lot more torque.

with low boost, strain on the transmission isn't too large and as a road car is far better.

itb's are great for track but not so great for road imo.

Thanks for that. How much would I be looking at for a low boost set up? I don't know much about throttle bodies and boost set ups so one of the reasons why I'm looking for a project is to learn a bit more and I will need a hand doing most of the stuff!

What would I need for a low boost set up?

Thanks for your help mate :y:

You can do tb's on the cheap...

Predator ecu around £500
GSXR1000 Bodies
Sandy Inlet and you are good to go no?

Yeah, a friend of mine on here had the same sort of set up as that (furio-james) cost him about 1.3k but he kept standard cams. If I went for bodies I'd definitely want ph3's or 708 cams.

see our latest offer.
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359877,
add a pred to that and it would be a perfect everyday car

Looks like a very good set up mate. I'm looking to do it in the future though, I'm collecting a white VTR on saturday which will be my main project. I've got a rebuilt vts engine to go in it and once the conversion is done I'll start thinking of the bodies or boost set up I want and give you a shout to see what you've got :)

Who wants to be straight line hero anyway? Seriously boring 1/4 mile rubbish, I enjoy watch a car handle well watch it all work as one, instead of a car just going in a straight line!!

Good point mate. I enjoy a car that handles well and goes well too, straight line isn't really my thing but as someone pointed out a lot of other people prefer going fast in a straight line, it's up to your preference really :y:

I thought that'd be obvious, :ponder: the cheapest place to buy one is eBay or keep an eye out on the saxo/106 forums for one bought as part of a group buy and not fitted.

I recently saw a Quaife'd vts box sell on eBay for £380, bargain! :y:

That does sound like a right bargain for a Quaife'd vts box if it was in good working order!

I suppose I should have expected such a reply from you -
but when they cannot find a s/h unit --or want one now --you know no -one will beat my prices for new parts with a warranty

Will get in touch with you for parts in the future mate :y:

[hard_corejoeboy]

hardcorejoeboy - make your saxo 160bhp, strip it to 800kg, then go and race a mk2 focus rs. You won't win.



http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/jpsaxo/?action=view&current=IMG_0222.mp4

Thats Jpsaxo's saxo beating an rs on the nurburgring on his first visit. Don't think he even had 200bhp/tonne to do that.

I'd annihilate one of them 1550kg of lard if i had 160bhp :D

[maddison_vts]

and look how much the focus was on the brakes. He wasn't exactly giving it everything it had got was he?

here's a video of my saxo 3 years ago when it was 136bhp beating a 330bhp r33 gtst skyline. Does it mean my saxo was quicker? no. I raced it twice and beat it twice but I still knew then as I do now that my car wasn't quicker than his.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUss-LM6VpY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE0fsteZnbs

and one against an audi s4 4.0 v8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb8zMW1babI

[maddison_vts]

What would I need for a low boost set up?

You could do it on the cheap for sub £1000 if you were prepared to do a lot of work yourself bud

[CarlosVT]

You could do it on the cheap for sub £1000 if you were prepared to do a lot of work yourself bud

That sounds good mate. You're changing my mind.. might look in to boost instead of bodies! I'd need a hand from someone who knows what they are doing because I've never done anything like that before. What sort of power would I be looking to get from a low boost?

What parts would I need? Which turbo would be best?

Thanks again for your help bud.

[maddison_vts]

no problem, your limiting factor is really how much you want to spend. a mappable ecu is the best route but also the most expensive one, I beleive the predator is around the £500 mark mapped which is mega cheap for a fully mappable ecu. You want a small turbo for low boost ideally ie GT17.

there are loads of guides on here to turbo a saxo and i've seen a couple recently for doing it on the cheap, have a look about on some of the other threads bud and you'll find loads of info :y: like i said though, budget how much you want to spend and take into account how much work you are willing/capable of doing yourself and then go from there :y:

[Dave_P]

Turbo FTW. :)

[martyno]

and look how much the focus was on the brakes. He wasn't exactly giving it everything it had got was he?

here's a video of my saxo 3 years ago when it was 136bhp beating a 330bhp r33 gtst skyline. Does it mean my saxo was quicker? no. I raced it twice and beat it twice but I still knew then as I do now that my car wasn't quicker than his.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUss-LM6VpY&feature=related



You have just proved that off the line a 136 hp saxo is faster than a skline with 200hp more lol

I know what ross is saying sounds farfetched but i don't think he is too far wrong. You only have to look at colin's 106 turbo on youtube raping everything on track. not just on the straights but raping everything in the corners.

Another thing, my mate has a skyline and 500 miles of granny driving and its time for new tires already haha:p

Also i would imagine the 106 being more fun (unless your into drifting). My 130hp 106 is FAR FAR more fun than say my mated 260hp astra vxr.
Im not saying a saxo would be a better car blah blah just stating some facts. I would rather be in a saxo that has only just lost a race to a 500hp supra than be in the supra thinking...........shit i nearly got beat by a saxo.;)

[maddison_vts]

you're missing the point, it's what happens on the day and drivers etc. my car when it was 136bhp was definitely NOT quicker/faster than a 330bhp skyline.

as for nailing tyres in 500 miles with granny driving, my friends 600bhp r32 GTR has tyres lasting longer than that, and he drives like a nutter! I'd say your friends car has issues.

[hard_corejoeboy]

So in that respect mod your car to how you think you will drive it.
Hence me with my suspension and brake upgrades, buckets, harnesses and little else.

Buy the best you can afford in the best car you can afford and all will be good...

[dannygti]

you're missing the point, it's what happens on the day and drivers etc. my car when it was 136bhp was definitely NOT quicker/faster than a 330bhp skyline.

as for nailing tyres in 500 miles with granny driving, my friends 600bhp r32 GTR has tyres lasting longer than that, and he drives like a nutter! I'd say your friends car has issues.


i agree with some and disagree with other things you say. a supra would make for a much better road car but to make it an efficient track car would need a lot of money (jap bits v expensive) and to maintain it would cost a fortune.

also, as said before a light car with high power to weight will corner/brake/handle/respond better than a heavy car with bigger power.

the only times i would expect a evo/subaru/supra/skyline to be better than a car with more hp/tonne is off the line and top speed (i.e. over 130mph) everywhere else i would put money on the car with light weight and better bhp/tonne.

[adzvtr]

So in that respect mod your car to how you think you will drive it.
Hence me with my suspension and brake upgrades, buckets, harnesses and little else.

Buy the best you can afford in the best car you can afford and all will be good...

exactly right.
its ok saying that they are better cars, yes to some people that is correct.
but then what makes a better car.
something that never breaks????? or something that is faster????
saying you will get more power from a bigger better car(skyline, evo, scooby, supra) for less than u will to get it in a saxo is rubbish.
they have better quality parts to start with yes. but in order to double the hp on any car is still gunna cost thousands.
and running cost double aswell.

[CarlosVT]

no problem, your limiting factor is really how much you want to spend. a mappable ecu is the best route but also the most expensive one, I beleive the predator is around the £500 mark mapped which is mega cheap for a fully mappable ecu. You want a small turbo for low boost ideally ie GT17.

there are loads of guides on here to turbo a saxo and i've seen a couple recently for doing it on the cheap, have a look about on some of the other threads bud and you'll find loads of info :y: like i said though, budget how much you want to spend and take into account how much work you are willing/capable of doing yourself and then go from there :y:

Thanks for the info mate. I was looking to spend no more than 1.5 - 2k on throttle bodies. So you think with that sort of money I could go for boost and get a lot more power than I would with bodies?

I'll have a little search for the guides and decide which turbo, etc.. to go for :y:

Turbo FTW. :)

Looks like it's going that way mate :y:

[martyno]

you're missing the point, it's what happens on the day and drivers etc. my car when it was 136bhp was definitely NOT quicker/faster than a 330bhp skyline.

as for nailing tyres in 500 miles with granny driving, my friends 600bhp r32 GTR has tyres lasting longer than that, and he drives like a nutter! I'd say your friends car has issues.

k i see what you saying but on that day on more than one occasion a 136hp saxo beat a 330hp skyline off the line.

a 600hp skyline has tyres than last more than 500 ragged miles?? really?

[Dave_P]

Looks like it's going that way mate :y:



Good man. :y:

[AXracing]

a 600hp skyline has tyres than last more than 500 ragged miles?? really?

They must be magic. A standard GTR can kill a set of its original boots within a hour no problem.

[CarlosVT]

Loving the pointless discussions going on loool

[adzvtr]

Yes m8. If sourced parts and do alot of the build urself. U could turbo for around 2000. And have more power than bodies. Checkout the stickies about it on here. Plenty info in them

[hard_corejoeboy]

Yes m8. If sourced parts and do alot of the build urself. U could turbo for around 2000. And have more power than bodies. Checkout the stickies about it on here. Plenty info in them

Everyone including manufacturers are going turbo hell even F1 is going turbo!
Stand out with some bodies! But yes the turbo will give you more power...and lag...and killed clutches, gearboxes and driveshafts and insurance costs..

[adamskiTNR]

lol. and f1 haven't gone itb's.

[hard_corejoeboy]

V8's im assuming on some kind of tb's though. Sounds almost the same just plus 4 cylinders lol

[Ross]

in the theory of 'power to weight', my saxo would rinse a 430bhp r32 GTR skyline. In reality, it won't. The skyline would wipe the floor with me.

Some of you guys need to get it into your heads that a saxo/106 won't beat big powered cars just because you don't weigh as much.

A good friend of mine has a 420bhp evo 6, on power to weight and transmission loss again I should be quicker but i'm not.

To add to this, as said previous about '600bhp supras' they are built to take such power, the standard transmission is hench, the 2JZ engine is hench, the driving experience is fantastic and running a supra with such power will be so much more reliable than running a french bag of poo around the roads (to add to it you don't get laughed at by everybody on the roads like you do in a chavvy french hatch) You won't have issues with snapping clutch cables, bending clutch arms, splitting gearbox cases and blowing diffs and you won't have to have group n or even harder engine mounts so you can hear yourself think in it. On top of all this, a car with half the power and half the weight still wouldn't be quicker than it. It may keep with it to a certain point but that will be it.

hardcorejoeboy - make your saxo 160bhp, strip it to 800kg, then go and race a mk2 focus rs. You won't win.

In short what i'm trying to say is, yes you may make a little french hatch quicker or as quick as a standard sports car but you will never make it a better car.

Lol. You really need to go out in a quick saxo or 106. Most people don't laugh at my "shitty French hothatch" at all. Not in the slightest. They're generally on the blunt end of getting their ass handed to them.

A 400 bhp evo is NOT quick. Like I said - go out in a quick 106 and you'll see what all the fuss is about.

[hard_corejoeboy]

Dude a 400bhp evo is definitely quick! Come on compared to MOST cars on the road my 120bhp vts is quick...:D

[Ross]

Dude a 400bhp evo is definitely quick! Come on compared to MOST cars on the road my 120bhp vts is quick...:D

Your perspective is wrong ;) your comparing it to a 120bhp saxo. Of course it's quick in that comparison. Hell a 2.5 vectra is quick compared to a vts.

When you go out in a quick saxo (and I mean QUICK not 170bhp on itb's) you'll understand. I've been in several 300+ bhp 106's (myown included obviously) and they'd tear a 400bhp evo a new asshole.

[hard_corejoeboy]

A vts is quicker to 60 than a vectra lol and 167bhp from a 2.5 V6 is pathetic lol

I know what you mean though mate i'd rather have a fast 106 than a fast evo.

[Ross]

A vts is quicker to 60 than a vectra lol and 167bhp from a 2.5 V6 is pathetic lol

I know what you mean though mate i'd rather have a fast 106 than a fast evo.

Actually the v6 vectra is quicker than a vts 0-60 ;) 7.0 vs 7.6 :p

[hard_corejoeboy]

Guess it depends which one the specs i was pulling up ranged from 8-10secs

[KamRacing]

I like the sound of throttlebodies and a lumpy cam.

[axsaxoman]

I like the sound of throttlebodies and a lumpy cam.
i agree to a point --but the lumpy idle --no should not be if t/bodies ecu are set-up correctly

[CarlosVT]

Yes m8. If sourced parts and do alot of the build urself. U could turbo for around 2000. And have more power than bodies. Checkout the stickies about it on here. Plenty info in them

Sounds good mate. I really can't decide on which set up to go for now.. is turbo really that bad in killing clutches, gearboxes, etc?

i agree to a point --but the lumpy idle --no should not be if t/bodies ecu are set-up correctly

Whatever set up I go for I'll be getting GMC to remap my ecu, heard some good stuff about you guys :y:

[maddison_vts]

Lol. You really need to go out in a quick saxo or 106. Most people don't laugh at my "shitty French hothatch" at all. Not in the slightest. They're generally on the blunt end of getting their ass handed to them.

A 400 bhp evo is NOT quick. Like I said - go out in a quick 106 and you'll see what all the fuss is about.

I've got a turbo'd vts so i'd say i have got a quick saxo :y:

keep in mind, yours is 286 bhp. mine was 230bhp at 9.5psi i've since turned it up to 1 bar (14.7psi) and have a 50bhp shot of nitrous to hand on top of that if i want it so I'm pretty sure i know what a quick saxo/106 is.

and you're telling me a car that weighs 1200kg that has 420bhp and over 400 ft/lb torque isn't quick? Are you ok in the head?

and regardless, even if you get a 106 or saxo to match the performance of a tuned skyline, evo, supra can you honestly say you would rather be sat in a saxo/106? i know i can't.

I know bigger cars can be had, i often take the p!ss out of wrx imprezas but when i beat it i think, 'hang on, he's got an impreza that he paid £2k for. I've spent £££££££ more on a saxo, I'm sure if he knew that he wouldn't be remotely bothered and probably even laugh at me for doing it.'

this has turned into a pointless debate anyway,

YES, you can make a saxo/106 quick, I know from first hand experience.
HOWEVER, they are still sh1t cars, argue that as much as you want but it's true and the general public hate saxo/106 owners and laugh at them.

[Ross]

I've got a turbo'd vts so i'd say i have got a quick saxo :y:

keep in mind, yours is 286 bhp. mine was 230bhp at 9.5psi i've since turned it up to 1 bar (14.7psi) and have a 50bhp shot of nitrous to hand on top of that if i want it so I'm pretty sure i know what a quick saxo/106 is.

and you're telling me a car that weighs 1200kg that has 420bhp and over 400 ft/lb torque isn't quick? Are you ok in the head?

and regardless, even if you get a 106 or saxo to match the performance of a tuned skyline, evo, supra can you honestly say you would rather be sat in a saxo/106? i know i can't.

I know bigger cars can be had, i often take the p!ss out of wrx imprezas but when i beat it i think, 'hang on, he's got an impreza that he paid £2k for. I've spent £££££££ more on a saxo, I'm sure if he knew that he wouldn't be remotely bothered and probably even laugh at me for doing it.'

this has turned into a pointless debate anyway,

YES, you can make a saxo/106 quick, I know from first hand experience.
HOWEVER, they are still sh1t cars, argue that as much as you want but it's true and the general public hate saxo/106 owners and laugh at them.

You've single handedly slowly turned this debate into a "saxos are shit" thread, when in fact it started as a question of ITB's or turbo as the OP wanted increased performance. The OP's questions have been answered :)

For the record mines not 286 ;) It was when it was first mapped. I'm also sceptical of a lot of other dynos :) As John will tell you, when the flag drops, the bullshit stops. It's why my "286 bhp" 106 is quicker than Titch's "330bhp" 106. Someone's telling porkies...

A 400bhp evo isn't especially quick. Sorry about that if you think it is. If your apparent (300bhp?) car can't rip a 400bhp evo a new one, then you've got a problem right there mate...

[maddison_vts]

i've stated facts, they are sh1t.

regardless of what you say, a 400bhp evo is a fast car.

[LWS_71]

I think everyone puts abit too much emphasis on bhp figures anyway. For a start all dyno's read different anyway. If it drives smoothly and you feel it is fast and what you wanted from the setup then what does it matter about bhp figures.

At the end of the day supra/evo/scooby whatever they are all quick, but just because someone has a quicker car that does not make them slow.

Anyway I feel sorry for the OP that his thread has been hijacked by silly arguments.
t/b's are awesome, sound sweet and give good power gains.
Turbos are awesome sound good, in most cases cost more but generally will be faster when 'on boost'.

If it was me I would go for a low boost setup for the time being then atleast in the future you can upgrade for more power.
With bodies you can get to 150-170bhp but if you wanted to upgrade in the future it would cost alot of money for anymore power.

Hope all of that makes sence and helps you out a little.

[Ross]

I think everyone puts abit too much emphasis on bhp figures anyway. For a start all dyno's read different anyway. If it drives smoothly and you feel it is fast and what you wanted from the setup then what does it matter about bhp figures.

At the end of the day supra/evo/scooby whatever they are all quick, but just because someone has a quicker car that does not make them slow.

Anyway I feel sorry for the OP that his thread has been hijacked by silly arguments.
t/b's are awesome, sound sweet and give good power gains.
Turbos are awesome sound good, in most cases cost more but generally will be faster when 'on boost'.

If it was me I would go for a low boost setup for the time being then atleast in the future you can upgrade for more power.
With bodies you can get to 150-170bhp but if you wanted to upgrade in the future it would cost alot of money for anymore power.

Hope all of that makes sence and helps you out a little.

+1 - lets bring this back on topic :)

200bhp in a saxo is always gonna be a fun car to drive. Low boost, decomp in some way, cheap turbo. Bosh. A lot of grin for not a lot of readies. Get started, OP ;)

[hard_corejoeboy]

I say sort your suspension, brakes out first and then go from there...

Sometimes i can barely handle having 120bhp in my car (i really need to get it dyno'd)
and it can get me in trouble VERY quickly. Only have to press the pedal for a few seconds and im already doing over the speed limit on the road.

Maybe the best idea would be to get a few passenger rides of people's cars on here?
That way you can decide what you like best.

[CarlosVT]

Anyway I feel sorry for the OP that his thread has been hijacked by silly arguments.
t/b's are awesome, sound sweet and give good power gains.
Turbos are awesome sound good, in most cases cost more but generally will be faster when 'on boost'.

If it was me I would go for a low boost setup for the time being then atleast in the future you can upgrade for more power.
With bodies you can get to 150-170bhp but if you wanted to upgrade in the future it would cost alot of money for anymore power.

Hope all of that makes sence and helps you out a little.

Thank you for the input mate. Makes sense what you said about being able to upgrade for more power in the future. I think I'll definitely go for a low boost set up :)

I say sort your suspension, brakes out first and then go from there...

Sometimes i can barely handle having 120bhp in my car (i really need to get it dyno'd)
and it can get me in trouble VERY quickly. Only have to press the pedal for a few seconds and im already doing over the speed limit on the road.

Maybe the best idea would be to get a few passenger rides of people's cars on here?
That way you can decide what you like best.

That's my plan mate. Will get the suspension and brakes sorted out first then go from there.

I know what you mean about getting in trouble very quickly, I had the same issue with my black vts.

Sounds like a good idea getting a few passenger rides in people's cars but I don't really know anyone around my area with a bodies or boost set up :n:

Thanks for your input!

[luthor1]

Throttle bodies idle beautifully! It's the stock naff intake system that is a PITA on idle

Andy

[KamRacing]

i agree to a point --but the lumpy idle --no should not be if t/bodies ecu are set-up correctly

I dont know how to describe it, but a race cam always sounds a bit special, like its held back and needs to be unleashed

[Ryan]

I dont know how to describe it, but a race cam always sounds a bit special, like its held back and needs to be unleashed

chug chug chug.

[Jungle]

I dont know how to describe it, but a race cam always sounds a bit special, like its held back and needs to be unleashed

race cams on idle actually give me a semi

[adamskiTNR]

enough with the verbal descriptions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk-96NL8c14&feature=related

[danny-boi]

prefer super charged :) i like to feel the power straight away with the acceleration and also like to keep the speed up round corners :)

[sliderz]

and the moral to this story is get a Bugatti Veyron

[axsaxoman]

I dont know how to describe it, but a race cam always sounds a bit special, like its held back and needs to be unleashed
does not have to sound like that,even with full race cams ,but it would have to run richer than mot spec on full race cams to get it to run smoothly.
customers choice .
I understand what you are saying though
admit it you really have a hankering for an old mustang mach1 or some other big v8 yank tank

[hard_corejoeboy]

Throttle bodies idle beautifully! It's the stock naff intake system that is a PITA on idle

Andy

Find me some and some money Andy!

[chriswoodward]

i've stated facts, they are sh1t.

regardless of what you say, a 400bhp evo is a fast car.

Ive read this from start to finish and I have to say I want to twat you one right now, I don't even own a Saxo anymore so I'm not being bias they are good cars they generally put a smile on your face and have some character unlike most jap crap, so go back to your fantasy pretending your in Fast&Furious and stop slagging saxo's off on a Saxo forum you mug.

Back on topic: it doesn't really sound like u have thought this through very well, neither build can be done effectively at low cost and neither builds are for the feint hearted, personally I would go with bodies as the sound, gains and monetary outlay I think would be more suitable for you and less hassle.

[CarlosVT]

I never said I'm planning to do it at 'low cost' I just said I want good power, not looking for silly amounts.. I also said that I'm looking to spend about 2k - 2.5k which is enough for a low boost set up as I have done some research now and it sounds about right.

I think I'll go for boost as I'll be able to upgrade for more power later on if I wanted to. I could upgrade with bodies but it would end up costing a lot more.

Thanks for the input :y:

[maddison_vts]

Ive read this from start to finish and I have to say I want to twat you one right now, I don't even own a Saxo anymore so I'm not being bias they are good cars they generally put a smile on your face and have some character unlike most jap crap, so go back to your fantasy pretending your in Fast&Furious and stop slagging saxo's off on a Saxo forum you mug.


That's great :y: maybe you should seek anger management if you get that wound up by someone posting on the internet :fcuk:

they are great cars in standard form, loads of fun for very little money.
what i was trying to point out was they are not the be all and end all of fast cars. Tune one (highly tuned) and it becomes shit as will any small car, the parts were never designed for it. I am far from bias as i've even got a tuned saxo!

Don't really know where your 'fast&furious' comment came from but if that's what you think, crack on :y:

anyway, i've got nothing else to add now the original thread topic has been answered and to carlosvt - all the best with the low boost set up, for the budget you have set aside it should make for a very reliable set up which will make it a much more enjoyable car to drive :y:

[CarlosVT]

Thank you mate :) I can't wait to start on it!

[LeeM]

im back to thinking about bodies now, id 100% decided i wanted boost as well until i was reminded today about how good bodies run.
looking at at power bodies with gmc cams and a predator ecu, but i think im gonna build up my engine with gmc cams in and run on the standard ecu, then when the corsa sells ill get the predator bought then start saving for bodies.
next year high comp pistons and ph4 cams etc and start trying to hit 200bhp+

[dannygti]

i hope you dont think its that easy to hit 200hp with na?

much more money needed that expected and its not going to be as nice to drive as a 200hp turbo or s/c car. (wich will cost suffienciently less to achieve that power goal)

[LeeM]

of course i dont, the cars going to be an ongoing project. later in the year ill have access flow benches and things so should be able to do all the headwork myself. apart from mapping it should only cost me for parts, no labour

[AndySAXO]

im back to thinking about bodies now, id 100% decided i wanted boost as well until i was reminded today about how good bodies run.
looking at at power bodies with gmc cams and a predator ecu, but i think im gonna build up my engine with gmc cams in and run on the standard ecu, then when the corsa sells ill get the predator bought then start saving for bodies.
next year high comp pistons and ph4 cams etc and start trying to hit 200bhp+


that all well, but to gain the extra BHP to get 200 bhp out of an N/A is not cheap, and will lose Bhp lower down the rev range, really wouldnt be great on the road.

plus not as easy as get ph4 and high comps, firstly, will need ph5 to get 200 bhp, with solid lifters, very good head work, then, the con rods changing all the bottom end sorted, would want the best stuff for 200 bhp N/A engine, as it very high revving engine when getting that much power out of N/A.

all well and good trying it, but will be very costly, i was going to do it, but really dont see the point any more 160 bhp is good for a little saxo.

as anyone who has a really 200 bhp N/A engine asked them now much works involed,

but if you want to good luck with that, but will need wilder cams than ph4 and will need soild lifter, as rev limit will be around the 9k mark with that sort of cam profile.

[Olly]

i keep planning boost for my car, then take it for a drive with the throttle bodies, and i just dont think i will change. Theres nothing quite like it....

Boost is impressive and very cool, but itll have to wait untill i get bored of itb's!

Budget tb's setup will still cost a fair wedge, but if your serious about it, imo will offer the most grin factor.

[dannygti]

of course i dont, the cars going to be an ongoing project. later in the year ill have access flow benches and things so should be able to do all the headwork myself. apart from mapping it should only cost me for parts, no labour

having access to flow bench doesnt mean you know what good results look like. you could be messing it all up.
so you know how to shim up solid lifters, time up cams and build what effectively would be a racing engine etc?

and your talking about using gmc cams, these im sure would be great for fast road but wont get you anywhere near the magic 200hp mark, so you would effectively be building 2 engines?

in my opinion and experience, you need to decide what you want and if you can afford it. the power you want and a budget (then X2) and then stick with it.

this is constructive critiscm and not a dig. a LOT if not all project that start out like this never get finished so i hope this is different.

[dannygti]

i keep planning boost for my car, then take it for a drive with the throttle bodies, and i just dont think i will change. Theres nothing quite like it....

Boost is impressive and very cool, but itll have to wait untill i get bored of itb's!

Budget tb's setup will still cost a fair wedge, but if your serious about it, imo will offer the most grin factor.

if you hop in for a lap with me when mines done olly then you will have a good comparison, as you have been in mine when ITB and boosted. after you get out i expect your next purchase will be a blower of some sort ;)

[Ross]

until i was reminded today about how good bodies run.

A turbo car should run like it came out the factory turbo'd - starting perfectly, idling perfectly and have off boost perfect manners.
Much harder to get a highly tuned na car to do that (ph5's etc)

[AndySAXO]

yer it as easy as just working on a standard engine, alot more involed in biulding them sort of engines.

but good luck, also olly dont do that it cheating for a start :P and i am like that i just love the noise and will be good all th way to germany :P should be intresting. :)

[Olly]

if you hop in for a lap with me when mines done olly then you will have a good comparison, as you have been in mine when ITB and boosted. after you get out i expect your next purchase will be a blower of some sort ;)

More than happy to! :P

Maybe im being anti. wouldnt know where to start with a boost project personally.

[Sophia_Bush]

How to turbo your 16v reliably for up to and not anymore than 1.5k coming to you soon!

[dannygti]

More than happy to! :P

Maybe im being anti. wouldnt know where to start with a boost project personally.

if you want to do it properly, come an talk to me ;)

[Sophia_Bush]

danny has that right if you want to do it well then speak to him, if you can blag most of the stuff like me then do it yourself :D

[dannygti]

danny has that right if you want to do it well then speak to him, if you can blag most of the stuff like me then do it yourself :D

i didnt mean that in a funny way it could of looked gav, just read back through.

[Sophia_Bush]

lol in what way? anyway imo on this topics as usual think of what you want how much you want and spec from there with both methods, maybe go out in a few and see what you prefer.

I am always going to be biased and say buy a mancharger and run 1 bar nothing less

[LeeM]

I'm still learning! I can time cams and I understand duration and how adjusting each cam changes overlap etc, but no I don't know how to shim solid lifters yet. I'll be building the car alongside my motorsport engineering degree, so all stuff I'll be learning. In the grand scheme of things I know next to fuck all and don't claim to, but I'll learn! I want to get something done this year like bodies or turbo, run it and enjoy it for a while then build from there next year.

[LeeM]

A turbo car should run like it came out the factory turbo'd - starting perfectly, idling perfectly and have off boost perfect manners.
Much harder to get a highly tuned na car to do that (ph5's etc)


Sorry I meant sound, no idea why I wrote run. I know high strung na's have idle issues and stuff

[hard_corejoeboy]

There's a reason that RS Clio fan's are kicking off that its 2.0 N/A engine is to be replaced with a 1.6 turbo....is all i'll say.

[Ross]

How to turbo your 16v reliably for up to and not anymore than 1.5k coming to you soon!

Trouble is, all I seem to read (every other thread on this forum) is either "f**k my insurance is a rip off - I'm 18 and getting raped anally" right next to a thread "I'm 18 but want 250bhp turbo - how can I achieve this?"

All these turbo/ITB conversions popping up - how is everyone affording the insurance on them?

[Oc2]

Trouble is, all I seem to read (every other thread on this forum) is either "f**k my insurance is a rip off - I'm 18 and getting raped anally" right next to a thread "I'm 18 but want 250bhp turbo - how can I achieve this?"

All these turbo/ITB conversions popping up - how is everyone affording the insurance on them?

I cant see why peoples jump in at the deep end either.

i was lucky to get my insurance down to £800 a year, im not gonna roger it up untill its nice and low and theres headroom to be knocking about with stuff

exterior yeah knock youself out, but the first time some 18yo gets pulled and told to pop their bonnet and theres some gret' turbo or supercharger looking back that hasnt been declared for fear of insurers, theyre gonna have some questions to answer...

[Ross]

I cant see why peoples jump in at the deep end either.

i was lucky to get my insurance down to £800 a year, im not gonna roger it up untill its nice and low and theres headroom to be knocking about with stuff

exterior yeah knock youself out, but the first time some 18yo gets pulled and told to pop their bonnet and theres some gret' turbo or supercharger looking back that hasnt been declared for fear of insurers, theyre gonna have some questions to answer...
And that, sir, is my point. :(

There's a reason insurance is sky high for young drivers - an even bigger reason why modded cars (heavily modified, double bhp from stock etc) are impossible to insure for them. Risk! So you either pay your £5000 insurance, or don't, and then run the "no insurance" gauntlet.

Moan over :p

[CarlosVT]

All saxos I've had I have declared all mods since I first passed my test. I work my ass off doing 12 hours personal training shifts, teaching classes at the gym and think I deserve to treat myself to a turbo/bodies and say all you want, it's all guna be declared and yes I can afford it. Not trying to be cocky, just proving a point.

Also, if you read from the start I never said I wanted 250bhp turbo, I said I want a more enjoyable car.

[Ross]

wasnt aimed at anyone specific... Keep your allens on. ;)

[CarlosVT]

Fair enough. It just seemed like you and Oc2 were saying that aimed at me.