vtr turbo

[ricksgti]

hi i just purchased of vtr turbo of some one on here dont no who it is yet..im new on here as im registered on 106 owners...

im not sure were to start with it.....i dont no much about turbo's

i no its not been done properly at all but just need some advice...

took it down the road and it pulled then cut out and found the pipe off the turbo had poped off thats goes to inlet...yes yes i no has no bloody intercooler.lol


just need to understand how the conversion is done and what is needed and how i check for it all...

so i can start from step 1..what is consisted on a turbo kit......


sorry if i dont make sense but im learning lol :(

[blackie_2k5]

start with pics and we'll tell you what it needs/is wrong with it

and of course what you do know about it, how do you know its off here?

[ricksgti]

the kiddy told me when i brought it...also on owners club iv been told the kiddy was not liked one here lol and to be careful of what im buying...he seemed like a nice kiddy thou....

i dont no how to put pics on its totally differnent to 106 owners lol

[blackie_2k5]

upload them to photocbucket or imageshack etc, then tag the image code

if you were told not to buy it why did you?

if it hasnt got an intercooler it sounds like one of them turbo doctor bodge ups off ebay, and if the boost pipe has blown off after driving down the street i wouldnt expect it to be of ANY qaulity set up at all

[ricksgti]

yes its excactly that..what do i do now..i want it to work properly...

i see the turbo is a garrett t2 please help me im stuck lol

i brought it as it was cheap so i took the chance

[blackie_2k5]

find about £1.5k+ then you should be able to get it working properly

[ricksgti]

so im screwed then..is there nothing i can do....

shorly its meant to all work

[blackie_2k5]

i dont know mate, i dont know the spec or whats hasnt got, whether its got management, or even if its had the compression lowered,

tbh at present this thread is like me saying to you, how long is the piece of string i have sitting in my glovebox

[ricksgti]

well im only asking for help mate...there is a place round by mine that does engine tuning..turbo conversions and rollong sets ups...may take it round there and see if they can help me

[blackie_2k5]

i not trying to be funny mate, but we dont know anything about your car, you clearly dont know much about the set up, or waht it "should" have, so even if we start rhyming names of stuff off... how would you know what they were

at minimum we need to see alot of pics of the engine bay, form what it appears... especially the fact it was "so cheap", its just one of those made up of scrap parts that's floating about

[ricksgti]

try this link of 106 owners i have a simple pic on there..dunno if it will work

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?198987-saxo-vtr-turbo-engine...hopefully-going-into-xsi-pics-of-sax!!!&highlight=

[Sophia_Bush]

i told him to come on here andy knew it was one of them setups straight away

[ricksgti]

i dont get it..wat do i do now lol..is there a chance to get it working as i assume its meant to already lol

[Gandi699]

EDIT *.
Hard to tell by photos alone by the pipework layout suggests you've got a fair bit to spend to get a reliable turbo setup!

[ricksgti]

It wasnt a red VTR from ebay was it? Red boost piping and no intercooler?

no a green one but same set up lol :( cant believe its not set up without an intercooler lol

[Gandi699]

If he hasnt put an intercooler in, I doubt he'll have had it mapped properly, be using decent pistons or lowered the compression in all honestly. Wasnt there a spec list of parts?

[ricksgti]

no not really mate...i dont no alot about it..when u rev it u can here the turbo spool up..just when u drive it i dont think its been set up proper as you said...im gonna take it to a tuning specialist and see what they can do

[Gandi699]

Yeah try that first - mapping it properly with a lower boost pressure and sorting the comp. ratio might be enough to sort it, there seem to be a lot of people running standard pistons in these engines with boost. Was this car a lot of money?

[ricksgti]

Yeah try that first - mapping it properly with a lower boost pressure and sorting the comp. ratio might be enough to sort it, there seem to be a lot of people running standard pistons in these engines with boost. Was this car a lot of money?

no only a cheapy...took a chance was not into 4 digit figures well under so im taking a chance mate...car has no tax or ticket thats why it was so cheap...im just after a project and thought this would be good to start around

also do u no where i can find proper intercooler pipes

[Gandi699]

I use ebay, you can get some good deals on unbranded silicone piping

[ricksgti]

i see on most sites for turbo conversions....they have 1 big pipe that runs from inlet to down to intercooler..i want one of them to start with then im gonna buy an intercooler...

im gonna get this old girl running lol

[LSOfreak]

as the fellow on 106owners says, it would probably be easier to scrap the car and start again from scratch. looks like a 14 year old put it together in a day

[ricksgti]

im ripping the engine out and hoping to do it in a 106 xsi running proper then the rest is being stripped and scrapped i do agree it looks a shitter lol...god everybody so negative on these sites lol :)

[LSOfreak]

its not being negative to be fair its just the truth. better than everyone lying and being positive lol

seems alot of effort if you ask me. I mean with some goon setting that up like that and running it, the engine itself probably isnt in much of a good shape. which effectively means you bought a car for its abused engine which probably isnt any good either. Id just get a low mileage vtr engine for about £60 and buy a turbo kit from the for sale section off here which sometimes pop up every now and again (£500-1000) and start again. Would be more reliable as you would have had it built yourself and not just repairing what someone else has bodged on.

[ricksgti]

well will see if ur theory is rite....im sorting the engine out e.g new gaskets and bits

im gonna take it to a tuning place my mate works at and see what they say...if they say dont bother its a complete shitter like most people are saying then ill dispose of it...until them im holding my head high and giving it a bash..its meant to be a project so a project it shall be

[blackie_2k5]

no tax and test, 40's worth of tat from scrappy, worth about 150 if bodywork is good

[LSOfreak]

fair enough dude

[ricksgti]

rite sorted the running problem....

5th injecotor had no fuel to it so sourced a supply for it...

and the pipe of the turbo to inlet had popped off...put it on and hey its boosted like shit...

give it some shit down the road to 70ish and boost pipe popped of again so drove it carefully back...fitted the pipe back on and it works fine now..

this may not be the best set up in the world well far from it i am very happy for the money i payed for it....

car boosts hard and chatters when changing gear....

next thing is to get a bloody intercooler and make it all better :)

[stevo1600]

is theire an afr gauge in the car?

intercooler + piping kit is a must.

dont go ragging if there aint an air/fuel ration gauge to tell you what the fueling is doing, or you have a chance of engine seize and blowing up.....

your running mf2 + 5th injector by the sounds of it. i suggest you do a search on that to give you an idea.

good luck mate.

[blackie_2k5]

its not even that stevo, apparantly the lad that makes them uses some sort of pressure switch from a washing maching to control the extra injector/s

[ricksgti]

its not even that stevo, apparantly the lad that makes them uses some sort of pressure switch from a washing maching to control the extra injector/s

well what ever it is..its working ok so hey ho!!!! cheap car and project so im happy...its summit to start with if u aint got loads of money..just abit of fun...

so can every 1 please stop booing on here

[blackie_2k5]

as with stevo, first buy should be an AFR guage and wideband lambda, get that on before you drive it anymore, then we'll see how its working, as if its not getting the right fuel mixture, itll pop or fry the rings/pistons VERY quickly

the lad that boshes these toghether puts them in scrap cars he got for pennies and pushes them on for mega profit, he has no care for whether they run or not. once hes sold it imediatley after banging it together, if it blows up on you its not his concern is it

[ricksgti]

so whats an afr gauge and were do i find if it has one....if i can get people to help me on here i may be able to get here going a little better and hopfully a little reliable

were is the best place to buy these things..thanks

[Gandi699]

Should think this engine is more or less toast now anyway considering

[ricksgti]

Should think this engine is more or less toast now anyway considering

engine seems quite healthy actaully...

but gonna semi build it again as its going into a real car 106 XSI lol

[coleman258]

its going into a real car 106 XSI lol

Was it in a pretend car before?

I will be interested how this turns out or if you fry your pistons before it happens.

[stevo1600]

as with stevo, first buy should be an AFR guage and wideband lambda, get that on before you drive it anymore, then we'll see how its working, as if its not getting the right fuel mixture, itll pop or fry the rings/pistons VERY quickly

the lad that boshes these toghether puts them in scrap cars he got for pennies and pushes them on for mega profit, he has no care for whether they run or not. once hes sold it imediatley after banging it together, if it blows up on you its not his concern is it

well said mate.

as for the washing machine pressure switch... AS IF its still running jesus christ.

you NEED to get an afr 100% dude seriously. an innovate wideband are great buys at the moment, quality item and cheap to be fair.

it seems like alot of work is needed on this car. we need to see pics dude.

[stevo1600]

so whats an afr gauge and were do i find if it has one....if i can get people to help me on here i may be able to get here going a little better and hopfully a little reliable

were is the best place to buy these things..thanks

ebay for the afr gauge.

its like a little gauge, either mounted on the drivers side pillar or where the stero could be, you will see its got little digits on or a needle. i really doubt it would have one though if the chap you got it off couldnt be arsed to buy mf2...

looking aroud £150 notes for an afr wideband.

[Jungle]

running without a cooler is daft. and as said its good idea to get an afr gauge to see how its running. Search ebay for innovate LC-1 wideband lambda and gauge.

Had a look at picture and its not really a turbo conversion more just a turbo bolted on lol, im not really sure what your asking in this thread though?

[ricksgti]

i was just asking for advice and some help....im just trying to get my head around it...

yes without the intercooler is bloody stupid it was the last owner....

and its not just a turbo bolted on..it would hardly work but it is working ok!!!


im gonna do a few bit myself e.g intercooler and semi build..

then is going in the garage and then they can rip the shit into it and ill get them to tell me waht needs doing properly then ill go from there


so when i buy one of these widebands is it easy to fit...also sounds silly wat numbers will i be looking between on wideband display

[stevo1600]

i was just asking for advice and some help....im just trying to get my head around it...

yes without the intercooler is bloody stupid it was the last owner....

and its not just a turbo bolted on..it would hardly work but it is working ok!!!


im gonna do a few bit myself e.g intercooler and semi build..

then is going in the garage and then they can rip the shit into it and ill get them to tell me waht needs doing properly then ill go from there


so when i buy one of these widebands is it easy to fit...also sounds silly wat numbers will i be looking between on wideband display

I cant see the pics as im not registered on the 106 owners, Can you not create a progress thread with pics + spec on here? would be a big help.

Why pay for someone to take a look at it for you? when all the info is on here mate all you gotta do is ask. if your handy with a spanner and know abit about engines your silly not to rebuild it yourself you will save a fortune. Everyone who can will offer support and advice. you should make a progress thread and people will chip in to help where they can.

Easy to fit, all you need is the gauge.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INNOVATE-MTX-L-AFR-Wideband-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Gauge-3844-/300506017816?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45f78df018

Top quality mate, well worth the buy if your serious about rebuilding the car.

You will need to take the exhaust downpipe off and have a lambda boss welded in. take it to an exhaust place they will probs charge a fiver to do it and take about 10 mins. so you can install the 02 sensor in the exhaust system. as the gauge measure AFR via exhaust gases.

As for figures, the gauge has a unique led lighting system. so basically you want the led to light up green, and the numbers around 11.5 on boost it should sit around 10 or 11 like mine does. which is well in the green

If its running into high 13's,14s, 15s etc then its running to lean. any lower than 9 its running to rich. (if i have that the correct way around.)

I would suggest you read up on mf2 injector driver, unless your willing to buy aftermarket fuel management which is easily 500 quid + and requires new bigger injectors and a map. mf2 will cost around 150+ and you map it yourself.

Not as good as standalone management but it does work, and fits your budget nicely. It will replace the washer pressure switch 'thing' that your currently using.

Again, make a thread. ALOT can be learnt from this site and users.

I practically built my own turbo vtr, and im only 19. but i learnt everything on here. :drink:

[Sophia_Bush]

steve if you look at this ebay link its similar

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-SAXO-1-6-VTR-TURBO-CONVERSION-NEW-CLUTCH-/300572074794?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item45fb7de32a#ht_6541wt_932

[stevo1600]

cheers gav. :A:

hows the turbo mounted? straight and level or on a tilt mate?

[Sophia_Bush]

this is ricks engine bay from his other thread

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78254&d=1309179936

[ricksgti]

yea thats mine......

im only on here asking for help and advice...all i seem to be getting is slated lol....

any advice would be grateful...the more help i have the better really

[blackie_2k5]

were trying to tell you its not a turo onverted car, its scrap bolted to a saxo but you dont want to hear it

look in the FAQ's section, and search the forums, there masses of info on here, do some reading, then when you know what you need us to help you with then we can give you a little more help, at present your asking us to tell you whats wrong with a car weve no info on at all, we dont even know whats controlling the extra fuelling

[Sophia_Bush]

I think we can safely assume seeing as this looks like a turbo doc made one the 5th injector is probably done via the washing machine pressure switch mod

[ricksgti]

well im on the hunt for these bits iv been told about....

afr wideband and lamba
mf2 and 5th injector set up
front mount

etc

i think this is a good start

[blackie_2k5]

you also need to lower the compression, so you need to decide whic route your gonna take, that will depend on budget and the pressure you want to run

[ricksgti]

well tell me what the best root to take is...and rough prices....

see im likeing this every1 being helpful now lol :)

[blackie_2k5]

double head gasket route is cheapest, about £90- maximum saf pressure of 8psi

decompression plate and a new headgasket about £160 really go as high as your prepared to risk your egine, im on this route running 10psi at present, going up to 15psi very soon

then youve got forged pistons and rods, most say you can just buy the pistons and ARP rod bolts and go for about 300bhp, but that just what ive been told, second hand psitons can be had from £200+ but will need new rings at £100 set, rod bolts im not sure on price about £60-80 i think, ew ones about £400

all 3 routes will need a head skim @ £20+, the first 2 route will need new cambelt, water pump and tensioner, plus valve stem seals, the 3rd route will need the above,plus main and crank bearings, bore honing and maybe a few bits ive forgot

at a 4th route of fully forged, eg rods aswell your looking at about £400 for a set of rods on top of the above, they dont often pop up second hand, your engine will be bullet proof so to speak then

[ricksgti]

ok thanks for the help and advice....i will keep this all in mind......

as its coming out the saxo soon..then work will be carried out over the next 2/3 months..then will be going in a s1 rallye i have just aquired 5 mins ago :)

[Jungle]

double head gasket route is cheapest, about £90- maximum saf pressure of 8psi

decompression plate and a new headgasket about £160 really go as high as your prepared to risk your egine, im on this route running 10psi at present, going up to 15psi very soon

then youve got forged pistons and rods, most say you can just buy the pistons and ARP rod bolts and go for about 300bhp, but that just what ive been told, second hand psitons can be had from £200+ but will need new rings at £100 set, rod bolts im not sure on price about £60-80 i think, ew ones about £400

all 3 routes will need a head skim @ £20+, the first 2 route will need new cambelt, water pump and tensioner, plus valve stem seals, the 3rd route will need the above,plus main and crank bearings, bore honing and maybe a few bits ive forgot

at a 4th route of fully forged, eg rods aswell your looking at about £400 for a set of rods on top of the above, they dont often pop up second hand, your engine will be bullet proof so to speak then

5th route run standard compression :P

cooler and an ecu/map should be your first bits. Then at least it will be safe...ish

[blackie_2k5]

5th route run standard compression :P

cooler and an ecu/map should be your first bits. Then at least it will be safe...ish

not on mf2 though, i think your a lucky one tbh, your engine should have popped by now, but yours has a good mapper who knows your running standard compression doesnt he? so can retard the ignition alot

[Jungle]

not on mf2 though, i think your a lucky one tbh, your engine should have popped by now, but yours has a good mapper who knows your running standard compression doesnt he? so can retard the ignition alot

Oh yeah i dont know anything about mf2 lol. Yeah tbh mine is half lucky drop on a good engine and half good mapper i reckon lol.

[nut2010]

Y buy a saxo if u want a peugeot engine omggggggggggggg

[coleman258]

Y buy a saxo if u want a peugeot engine omggggggggggggg

huh?...

[-shuggles-]

Y buy a saxo if u want a peugeot engine omggggggggggggg

you taking the piss? omggggggggg

[LSOfreak]

steve if you look at this ebay link its similar

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-SAXO-1-6-VTR-TURBO-CONVERSION-NEW-CLUTCH-/300572074794?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item45fb7de32a#ht_6541wt_932

the pics on 106 owners are of a green mk1?

[ricksgti]

i brought the saxo as a donor...its going onto a cherry red s1 rallye :)

[Davo106]

the pics on 106 owners are of a green mk1?

"steve if you look at this ebay link its similar"

[LSOfreak]

yea thats mine......
im only on here asking for help and advice...all i seem to be getting is slated lol....

any advice would be grateful...the more help i have the better really

:S unless ive missed something here?

[blackie_2k5]

the picture posted is his car, the link posted is of a similar set up made by the same bodger for sale on ebay

[bobbyd]

he did a conversion on a vtr i know, he was using hose pipe and the same switch your all on about. never really had any running issues as it had an intercooler etc. wouldnt get one done by him myself though.

[LSOfreak]

this is ricks engine bay from his other thread

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78254&d=1309179936

oh my bad, pic doesnt work so i thought he was saying this ^ as a general statement about the red shed

[ricksgti]

mf2 fuel managment on its way....

been told its set up for a saxo vtr turbo 8v as it was used on...

£100 posted id say thats a good price as u cant bloody get hold of them easy...

well its a start to doing it properly lol

still on the hunt for a respectable intercooler and pipes

[stevo1600]

mf2 fuel managment on its way....

been told its set up for a saxo vtr turbo 8v as it was used on...

£100 posted id say thats a good price as u cant bloody get hold of them easy...

well its a start to doing it properly lol

still on the hunt for a respectable intercooler and pipes

decent price mate that.

is your 5th injector running on hose pipe? if it is get some decent fuel hose not much about 8 quid a meter.

for the intercooler if your wanting some thing cheap but does the job
(easily handle low pressure this one will)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FMIC-FFRONT-MOUNT-TURBO-INTERCOOLER-TYPE-S-550x140x65MM-/310204072463?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item48399a820f#ht_655wt_905

Then if i were you id use some of the pipes you have and buy one or two you might need to route it in properly. or you can just buy a full intercooler piping kit for around 160. but i did this and had a fair few pipes left over.

ALSO: what you planning on doing exactly?

taking the turbo kit off the sax engine onto the s1 or transplanting the saxo lump + turbo into the s1? either way you DO need to look at lowering compression mate. Blackie2k5's post about ways to lower compression are spot on. use that information to decide which way you want to go with it.

[ricksgti]

im putting the sax turbo lump into the 106 rallye

looked at that intercooler already lol...

thanks for your advice its very helpful...

the more advice the better lol.....

so what the cheapest route to bring down compression and places to buy the bits

[Davo106]

ferriday decomp plate is what im gonna be using on mine. I have most of the parts now just need the clutch and managment but its on hold. How many miles have you done with it setup like that?

[ricksgti]

iv done 0 miles trailered it home...kiddy never done massive milege...

engine is very strong from what i can see...leave it 4 days turns first crank on key..no smoke etc...does not over heat or loose any oil...seems quite good...will be re-building head etc...

where do i buy one of these decomp plates to and how much

[stevo1600]

ferriday engineering. as for price i cant remember how much look back in this thread i think blackie2k5 posted the price.

i would say thats your best bet, i regret going double head gasket as im limited to how much pressure i can run but still mf2 over 8psi starts to become a little unsafe iirc

its up to you though, mines running 8 psi no leaks or nothing on the head works fine.

sounds good. i love 106 rallyes :)

[Davo106]

i just paid 102.50 for mine with the non setting sealent and it turned up 2 days later.

[blackie_2k5]

what was yours made of davo? and what size? as i paid more then that, mines a 2mm and is aluminium

[Davo106]

The same dude but only 1mm.

[ricksgti]

ok peeps ill look into it cheers..

[ricksgti]

so do i run a decomp plate and head gasket as i was told this had to be done...

i would rather ask all of u as u no what ur on about....

[Jungle]

When your looking at coolers give me a shout I will ring the guy who got mine... good prices and any size you want id suggest a small one like mine fi your only running small boost as this will reduce lag.

[Davo106]

yer, decomp goes on the block then the HG goes on top as normal.

[Davo106]

Jungle, how much is good price? lol. Do they have a thermostat on them?

[Jungle]

Depends on what size lol i can get a price for one same size as mine if you want one?

[blackie_2k5]

yer, decomp goes on the block then the HG goes on top as normal.

headgasket goes on the block, decomp bonds to the head

[Davo106]

I always thought it was the other way round lol. You've done it though so i guess your right!

[blackie_2k5]

its argueable weither way tbf mate, lots say one, lots say the other, ive always believed it to be the way ive done it, and all the senior engine buildes/engineers ive spoke to aggree with the way ive done it

the decompression plate is meant to act as an extension of the head, to increase the combustion chamber size, thus lowering the compression, you bond it to the head and your headgasket seals it/head to the block as usual :y:

[ricksgti]

also you were all saying bout getting this afr thing and getting a lamba welded in..

iv just noticed there is a lamba sensor already on there and in ther manifold pipe..

do i still need this wide band lamba thing.. :)

[Davo106]

Yer if your using mf2, you need the wideband to make sure its fuelling right. If you got a piggyback/standalone would be set up properly by the mapper so you dont need one really.