VTR newmans or catcams??

[SaxoVTRben]

catcams 201, or newman ph3?? the 201's seem to have more lift and less duration and the ph3's the opposite. has anyone had either of these in there vtr? whats the better one to go for..

[Tringaling]

Ph3 all day

[blackie_2k5]

dont bother its a waste of time and money

if your going to modify it just put a 16v in

[SaxoVTRben]

i have a vts also that im also working on, but i cant afford the insurance atm so that is a long term project but....that said i personally like the vtr's power low end-mid range so its something i want to do, not just stick a 16v in

[blackie_2k5]

hionestly mate i ph3'd mine, just save the money till you can afford the vts, or put the money towards vts insurance, it really isnt worth it

[SaxoVTRben]

Ph3 all day

what reason would you choose the ph3's? they are about 120-140 cheaper than the catcams which is 1 :y: but is that because they are lower quality or not as good performance wise??

[blackie_2k5]

they are the wildest you can go without bodies, which make sligtly more power timed right

[SaxoVTRben]

well this is what im looking at doing, engine wise. what are your thoughts? alright gains?


possible performance head
newman ph3 cam and cam pulley
bmc/cda cold air induction
supersprint 4-2-1 supersprint centre pipe strait thru
not sure best bbox for it yet?
fast road clutch and quikshift
RR map

[williamsvts]

i dont get why people say they like the low down power of a vtr. its the same as a vts except it lacks the top end power.

for all your spending modding your vtr you could use it to insure the vts.

[Gandi699]

Same yourself a whole bunch and fit a 1.6 XSi head, shouldnt be too much money

[rkenyo]

well this is what im looking at doing, engine wise. what are your thoughts? alright gains?


possible performance head
newman ph3 cam and cam pulley
bmc/cda cold air induction
supersprint 4-2-1 supersprint centre pipe strait thru
not sure best bbox for it yet?
fast road clutch and quikshift
RR map

I did all these things got it mapped the other day and made what i thought was a respectable 118bhp - (90bhp std) but i have a s1 rallye inlet which probably helps a bit.

[LSOfreak]

well this is what im looking at doing, engine wise. what are your thoughts? alright gains?


possible performance head
newman ph3 cam and cam pulley
bmc/cda cold air induction
supersprint 4-2-1 supersprint centre pipe strait thru
not sure best bbox for it yet?
fast road clutch and quikshift
RR map

i was looking into this mate as i didnt want to sell my car but no one would insure me on a 16v conversion.

basically for the costs:

cam 200
remap 300
pulley 80 (to get it timed properly to get the most gain)
valve springs 80 (to prevent 'valve float')
cambelt kit 40

+ labour

it will probably see the same power as a vts with all that ^

what do you mean by performance head? and why would you get a fast road clutch?

[toxic]

catcams 201, or newman ph3?? the 201's seem to have more lift and less duration and the ph3's the opposite. has anyone had either of these in there vtr? whats the better one to go for..

save your money i did my vtr and not that much more faster, i am just about to have a vts engine put in so i will have a ported and polished engine with Kent cam in if you wont to buy them off me at some point in September

[SaxoVTRben]

i was looking into this mate as i didnt want to sell my car but no one would insure me on a 16v conversion.

basically for the costs:

cam 200
remap 300
pulley 80 (to get it timed properly to get the most gain)
valve springs 80 (to prevent 'valve float')
cambelt kit 40

+ labour

it will probably see the same power as a vts with all that ^

what do you mean by performance head? and why would you get a fast road clutch?

thats exactly why am looking to do this, i cant afford the insurance i had a ban when i was 18:wall: idiot! so my insurance has been harsh ever since!
by performance head i mean gas flowed. and the fast road clutch would be after if it needs it. its a pretty good engine only has 44k on it 52plate so its worth doing until the price drops insurancewise

[logic_guy]

Same yourself a whole bunch and fit a 1.6 XSi head, shouldnt be too much money

1.6 Xsi Head.. Can you expalin more...:P

[SaxoVTRben]

1.6 Xsi Head.. Can you expalin more...:P

doesnt fit unless rather alot of money and work is put into it:sad: that extra 8bhp=-20 for what you cant mod :n:

[blackie_2k5]

so what your saying is

instead of adding the grand your going to spend doing all this, onto your vtr's price of insurance.....and get a vts conversion that will still be faster then the vtr

your going to spunk all that money for less power without insuring the mods which would bring you to near vts price anyway..... and hope not to get caught

good luck with that, all ill say is, its a waste of money,the difference is negligeble, you hardly feel the difference at all

[1989vts]

when i got my vtr it already has: piper manifold, decat supersprint exhaust and an induction kit. it got 110bhp on the RR the other week. so am thinking about caming mine as a final performance mod

[blackie_2k5]

waste of money mate

[stevo1600]

dont put a ph3 cam in a vtr. done it myself - waste of money unless your going mental with bodies remaps etc.. wished id of just put a 16v in.

[1989vts]

its very tempting haha. maybe a stupid question but would bodies make much of a difference on a vtr?

[blackie_2k5]

bodies normally get about 10bhp give or take, can utilise cams and head work

not worth it on a vtr, someone on moaners has a 160bhp 8valve iirc, but i think thats a sandy brown ph4 engine, and it would have been expensive none the less!

[1989vts]

aye that sounds like not much gain for the price

[blackie_2k5]

aye that sounds like not much gain for the price

bodies allow you to run wilder cams, and have more aggressive timing on those cams, something you wouldnt be able to do on stock inlet, which makes more power ;)

[-shuggles-]

you have 3 decent options

boost
16valve it
and finally a high spec itb engine :y:

[blackie_2k5]

you have 3 decent options

boost
16valve it
and finally a high spec itb engine :y:

ran out of thanks :hug:

[1989vts]

aww right cheers blackie i never knew how they worked.

[1989vts]

i would love to go down the boost route like. mite have to see how much compen i am going to get. what about supercharging?

[-shuggles-]

i would love to go down the boost route like. mite have to see how much compen i am going to get. what about supercharging?

more or less the same, easier on the driveline ect but lacks in fun factor compared to the turbo.

look at blackies build thread...218bhp of sheer jizz :p

[blackie_2k5]

why thank you :D

[1989vts]

i havnt looked at it yet. but i did get to see it on the RR when it got 218. there is something about the sound of a supercharger. are they around the same to do cost wise?

[SaxoVTRben]

okay, yes blackie i agree with you in the sense of a vts conversion is the best base for someone, if you can afford that insurance..but even declaring it i would still save money not converting. next year would be a diff story lol:p
but sticking with this for now: anyone had work done by cituning? they offer this:
Fully Modified Head + Fast Road Cam + MLS Headgasket + Cam Belt Kit + Head Bolts + Oil & Filter + ECU Re-Map £1324.50

and when i emailed for more info they claim this kit will pull 135-140 brake out of the engine? which to be honest find hard to believe

[-shuggles-]

okay, yes blackie i agree with you in the sense of a vts conversion is the best base for someone, if you can afford that insurance..but even declaring it i would still save money not converting. next year would be a diff story lol:p
but sticking with this for now: anyone had work done by cituning? they offer this:
Fully Modified Head + Fast Road Cam + MLS Headgasket + Cam Belt Kit + Head Bolts + Oil & Filter + ECU Re-Map £1324.50

and when i emailed for more info they claim this kit will pull 135-140 brake out of the engine? which to be honest find hard to believe

If you are staying N/A 8valve you will need to either go balls out and do everything possible (even 90%) of the work and you could reach 160-170 bhp :y:

[stevo1600]

Add an extra 400 to that and you would have my spec, which is more than 140 as I can keep with a fair amount of quick cars, spend some more and you will have blackies spec which is way more than enough power and will rinse ALOT on the roads. But it's up to you, don't think a grand for 40 brake is good at all, when you spend a little more than that on a decent turbo spec you will gain around 70+

[1989vts]

how much roughly have yous spent on doing a turbo vtr?

[blackie_2k5]

my car isnt the highest spec, but hasnt been skimped on, you could do it alot cheaper and poss get the same results, i dont know how reliable it would be, but for example,

my car and all ive bought spent is probs about 4k(maybe more but if so its stuff ive not accounted for and just bought to fix rather then repair)... with parts ive yet to fit, small run down which doesnt cover all, but gives you an idea of what you CAN achieve on a budget if your in the right mind set and do all the work

full custom made stainless turbo kit,
full 2.5" turbo back exhaust
garett t25
ferriday decomp
helix 4 paddle clutch < refurbed plate and new bearing
rallye inlet
brembos, +refurb
td1.2s new
morettes
smoked rear jewels
spax adjustables new
rebuilt struts >/< new
stainless lines new
drilled grooved discs &pads new
recon beam >/< new
front mount
2.25" boot pipes(most expensive size to buy as its a backwards size) new
various fittings, adaptors, pipes, piping, heat wrap, paint, basically fucking allsorts, filter, service parts, gaskets etc etc, new
gauges & pods and stuff, new
standalone management, new
re wired loom to suit

there will be more ive forgot

stuff still to fit that i have purcashed include a freshly flocked dash, buckets and harnesses, fibreglass bonnet, innovate wideband kit, new catcams turbo cam, catcams vernier pulley, new piper valve springs and more

plus i refurb'd the car when i bought with all new struts etc above^^ new wishbones, doplinks, old beam before it went.. an the pads and brakes above.


with mine i basically bought it and fitted it knowing i would go more and do more, so ive always had future in mind, ppl throw pikey build around alot, but its not as cheap as ppl think, all my set up couldbe transferred to any other cit/pug on my whim, so i spent money where it thought it needed to be, a shell is a shell tbh, if your gonna do it then research and look for areas you should spend the money right

you dont wanna have to pull it apart again if something isnt up to the job..

[KamRacing]

If you are chasing power then the vts conversion makes far more sense. More power, more drivable, more economical and it revs higher.
The VTR engine is not the best for getting the most out of cams. Its got a rubbish inlet manifold for starters.
Personally i'm all for modding the 8v engines but for a daily i'm not convinced its the best route to spend serious money on cams and mapping.
15bhp can be got from the engine by replacing the manifold (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/exhaust-manifold.html) and exhaust (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/full-exhaust-systems.html). With an airfilter sorted i'd be moving to other areas. Get a limited slip diff and decent suspension (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-suspension/suspension-kits.html).

[1989vts]

yea, just the way i was looking at at my car is it has the full exhaust ans suspension already, so the cams are the last performance thing for me to do and just leave it at that i think, before i end up going down a boost route and spending alot of moneys

[KamRacing]

With mapping you are going to be looking at the best part of £600. Thats a turbo right there....If you have plans play the waiting game and get the conversion started.

Kev

[1989vts]

hmm that is another good point i cant make my mind up now