How much BHP??

[Japman]

I have a phase 2 vtr,what bhp about would it be with the following mods
Longlifefull system
4-2-1 manifold
piper induction kit

????

[blackvts]

probs take it to about 105ish mate

[hesslevtr]

get it on a rolling road

depends on how decent the engine was to sart with

is it a 98bhp model or 90bhp as k2 saxos came with both

[benreader]

105? bhp

[Sean]

you'll lose around 10bhp with the piperX filter. :)

[Japman]

98bhp engine
should be way more than 105
whats wrong with the piper x

[Reef]

you'll lose around 10bhp with the piperX filter. :)

care to explain sire? :P

[hesslevtr]

its an open filter which sucks in hot air instead of cold

the colder the air the better it is

id recomend a bmc enclosed filter

[Sean]

why should it be "way more" than 105bhp? piperX is an open filter, open filters suck in hot air. not good.

[blackvts]

Mine was sluggish with a k&n open one so i stuck a dynatwist on and what a difference it made

[Japman]

so what ur saying is ill gain 7 bhp with manifold and full system?

[Sean]

you might get 4 or 5 if you're lucky.

[blackvts]

depends what one you go for, and if your going to de-cat it or not?

[benreader]

yes mate, all that you have done is free up the exhaust system so you can puch a few extra horses through, not really ADDED any power. like a cam or a turbo etc...

[Japman]

yea and decat sorry forgot to meniton

[Sean]

air filter isn't really restricitve, only at top end. cat isnt restrictive. real restriction on a vtr is the cast iron manifold. that's where you'll see your gain. it's not just about power gains though, most importantly it's about how the car drives. :)

[Japman]

ok thx guys for the info

[Ax_beefy]

I'm using my mystical rolling road sense here but I reckon 100bhp.... unless you have had the cams setup on a rolling road, but then you'd know the power....

[potatopete]

is it a 98bhp model or 90bhp as k2 saxos came with both

How can you tell the difference? Probably a stupid question, but I'm full of stupid questions some days.....

[Sean]

How can you tell the difference? Probably a stupid question, but I'm full of stupid questions some days.....

x-reg after septmeber 2000 is 98bhp. also has cat in manifold and 3 plug ecu amongst other things :)

[potatopete]

That's well cool. Mine is October 2000 reg!

[Reef]

Right........ the same 'piper x' filter can be used, relocated and it will do the same job as an enclosed.

[Sean]

Right........ the same 'piper x' filter can be used, relocated and it will do the same job as an enclosed.

no it won't mate. all open filters will suck in hot air, regardless of where they are under the bonnet. that's the whole point of an enclosed filter (in other words, the same as a standard filter and airbox). relocated might be a bit better on the move but still not as good as enclosed or for that matter standard. and that's fact :)

[stiffler69]

hi fellas i pruchased 4-2-1 manifold, enclosed carbon fibre induction kit, full stainless decat exhaust with 3/12" exit, and got the ecu ramp done this made a massive difference to my vtr 98 r plate wich is only 90bhp standard this seemed to be enough to beat a 106 gti on a straight run so i would start here mate with these mods next to come is a piper cam and a fse fuel boost valve

[stiffler69]

remap sorry spelling mistake there lol

[b0t13]

u beat a 106 gti, :S

i have no doubt u may have "won" him but he wasnt either
- a good driver
- pushing his car

because a 106 gti is slighty quicker than a vts
which has 30bhp more than a 90bhp vtr

but ur modding your engine in a good way so keep it up..

[stiffler69]

heres my first few little mods

[stiffler69]

I couldnt belive it myself mate but he was really humiliated he was with his girlfriend and she was laughing along with myself it was quite a nice looking 106gti too had alot of body modifications done includeing morette lights gold alloys and a very nice paint work like a dark blue. one of the nicest 106 ive ever seen

[Sean]

who remapped it? because whoever did it had your pants down, as your modifications (simple breathing mods) don't warrant a remap. :)

[bear_westy]

I couldnt belive it myself mate but he was really humiliated he was with his girlfriend and she was laughing along with myself it was quite a nice looking 106gti too had alot of body modifications done includeing morette lights gold alloys and a very nice paint work like a dark blue. one of the nicest 106 ive ever seen

was his girlfriend huge?? only reason i can think

[stiffler69]

it was a custom eprom chip and it has full stainless exhaust system decat pipe, 4-2-1 manifold, induction kit, few more bits than breather mods mate, since the car didnt run correctly with the chip installed until i got these bits fitted i pretty much think its doing its job and been programmed spot on, also has the rev limiter increased so it revs to 7500 rpm will get a video up of this as soon as i work out how to lol, its also programmed ready for the cam to go in ;)

[stiffler69]

lol mate get you a pic of the girlfriend up as doon sd possible

[bear_westy]

it was a custom eprom chip and it has full stainless exhaust system decat pipe, 4-2-1 manifold, induction kit, few more bits than breather mods mate, since the car didnt run correctly with the chip installed until i got these bits fitted i pretty much think its doing its job and been programmed spot on, also has the rev limiter increased so it revs to 7500 rpm will get a video up of this as soon as i work out how to lol, its also programmed ready for the cam to go in ;)

do you know what you are talking about??? NO, you have contradicted yourself

either your full of shit or the same guy thats bent you over when doing the remap is filling you full of shit... osrry but its truth

[stiffler69]

No im no mechanic but i do know how the car is running and i know it run shit till i got them parts installed, im just telling you how it is

[bear_westy]

1. they are all breather mods so it doesnt have anything but them

2. you cannot map a car for a cam without the cam in it!!!!!!!!! DUH

3. raising the limiter is pointless as you will only loser power and cause uneccessary wear to the engine

[Sean]

it was a custom eprom chip and it has full stainless exhaust system decat pipe, 4-2-1 manifold, induction kit, few more bits than breather mods mate, since the car didnt run correctly with the chip installed until i got these bits fitted i pretty much think its doing its job and been programmed spot on, also has the rev limiter increased so it revs to 7500 rpm will get a video up of this as soon as i work out how to lol, its also programmed ready for the cam to go in ;)

still makes no sense at all. firsty why have the rev limit at 7500 as you're still on standard cam so no need for increased limit? no offence mate but it sounds like bullshit (not on your behalf but from whoever sold you this 'chip'). secondly unless it was set up on your car (and not just FOR your car, in otherwords not mapped on the car or live mapped) then it's a generic chip ie like a superchip (bag of poo). and how can it be 'programmed ready for the cam to go in'? that would mean it's set up for different cam and igntion timing, and therefore would run pish on standard cam :) not having a go but sounds like an ebay wonder or at best a superchip. :)
and if your modifications aren't breathing mods then i don't know what are :)

[stiffler69]

westcoast? need i say more

[stiffler69]

sorry pal i meant its gonna be programmed when cam goes it its a reprogrammable eprom chip and either of you had noticed the ecu is no longer the standard bosh ecu

[bear_westy]

yes you need to cause you obviously full of shit mate...

im not having a go at you just what you say makes no sense as sean has backed me up on

[Sean]

sorry pal i meant its gonna be programmed when cam goes it its a reprogrammable eprom chip and either of you had noticed the ecu is no longer the standard bosh ecu

lol all you keep mentioning is this magical eprom chip, no mention of a standalone ecu, which i can absolutely guarantee you do not have after reading your previous posts. still doesn't explain your increased rev limit, you could increase it to 247465743903rpm you still wouldnt see any performance increase AT ALL with your modifications. :) not having a go just trying to help you out a bit here :)

[stiffler69]

yeah i get what you are both saying but like i say the cam will be going in it in a few days to a week i dont drive the car but i know how it is running and thats just how i explained it

[stiffler69]

Well you explain to me why thousands of garages across the world sell these things super-chips bbstar chip for £300 plus but you know more so we will just leave at this ;)

[Sean]

my advice to you would be to bin the eprom chip before it causes your engine to run lean and your pistons go west. get a dastek ( a proper reprogrammeable ecu) or wait until the cam is in then have Wayne at chipwizards remap the standard ecu. beleive me mate these eproms are nothing but bad news. :)

[Sean]

Well you explain to me why thousands of garages across the world sell these things super-chips bbstar chip for £300 plus but you know more so we will just leave at this ;)

haha dont blame you for asking mate, but it's because people believe what they read in max power and go out and buy them. superchips etc are generic ie one program for each model of car (saxo vtr, saxo vts etc etc) and thus don't take into account manufacturing tolerences where two identicle saxo vts's could leave the factory with different bhp/torque figures. nor do they take into account modifications done to the individual car, you just turn up and they solder it into your ecu. they're doing nothing illegal by selling them, but they're no better than these ebay resistors. :)

[stiffler69]

i proberly will go for something else but at the moment the car is running great and waiting for cam to go in then get the ecu sorted for it, i have heard of that wayne before a mate of mine recomended him, may i ask what you are running in your vtr and how you know this info :)

[Sean]

running nothing on my vtr except an engine :)
been on here long enough to hear opinions on what does and doesn't work from people who've been there and done it (on other forums too), and also paying attention when people who know their stuff post on things like this ( no that isn't a dig at you by the way ;) ).

[SiMan]

providing there is a cold air feed i dont think an open induction kit is that bad really.

at speeds there will be air rushing around the engine anyways and the fact is that a piper sits away from the manifold so there is less heat.

if you got a forved air near the manifold it will just heat up the pipe anyways warming the air as it goes into the car.

more surface area more air can be drawn in so i take it that better.

simon

[Sean]

providing there is a cold air feed i dont think an open induction kit is that bad really.

at speeds there will be air rushing around the engine anyways and the fact is that a piper sits away from the manifold so there is less heat.

if you got a forved air near the manifold it will just heat up the pipe anyways warming the air as it goes into the car.

more surface area more air can be drawn in so i take it that better.

simon

1. heatsoak
2. no such thing as a forced air induction kit
3.do you not think citroen would have though about this when designing the airbox, thus designing it so it didn't happen?
4. engine sucks in as much as it needs, doesn't matter the size of the filter nor the pipe leading to the linlet.

:)

[Mr_Hush]

because a 106 gti is slighty quicker than a vts
which has 30bhp more than a 90bhp vtr


lol have you even researched that, how can the 106gti be quicker than a vts when the vts is 35kg lighter standard with exactly the same engine? :geek:

[CLERKY]

Around 5 - 8 Ponys Extra.